Speed 6 Failure, and mechanical breakdown insurance problem
Discussion
Hello all,
My blood is boiling at present, and need some advice.
I have an insurance policy for covering me for mechanical breakdown with a company called Motorplan Platinum (London and General Holdings).
Anyhow as some know already my engine threw its shims into the engine a while back. So off it went to Austec who have been brilliant with me, and the situation. They removed the engine and laid it out for assessment last week for a representative of this insurance company to look at. The report states that it’s down to excessive wear. It’s a 2000 car, with 25,321 miles and a full SH. They have stated to Austec, and I that they are not paying a penny for the repair.
Challenging them on my mileage, I nearly flipped my lid when a stated its limited milage and the fact that its broken, and I got this.... "Well it's a TVR Sir"
I have had to jump through hoops all afternoon to get this report by requesting by letter, and telephone calls. I have logged my calls with this company with even one employee saying “25,000 miles, that a bit harsh” after informing him of my situation.
After asking what they deem a suitable qualification for an “engineer” to get a second opinion, they suggested that I use a known organisation like the RAC, or AA.
I rang the TVR car club, with who they suggested, so I rang the RAC as we get discount.
I had an interesting conversation.
“How do they know if it’s worn, if they have no information to measure it against”.
After all TVR haven’t released the engine details at all.
They missed that parts of my engine are damaged due to the two shims rattling about in it, and the finger follower being smashed against the spring retainer.
Anyhow, at the end of the day, I have an expensive insurance paid up, for mechanical breakdown, which they are not honouring.
Are my next steps the Insurance ombudsman with the information I have, or shall I let a solicitor deal with it and incur more expense, but with the percentage of a claim being more successful.
Interestingly the policy is about to expire, and I am a little nervous that the stalling method they are using, is there to elevate them from the responsibility after he 12 months is up!
Any other ideas anyone, I am not enjoying my TVR ownership at all?
>> Edited by justinbaker on Monday 10th October 18:06
My blood is boiling at present, and need some advice.
I have an insurance policy for covering me for mechanical breakdown with a company called Motorplan Platinum (London and General Holdings).
Anyhow as some know already my engine threw its shims into the engine a while back. So off it went to Austec who have been brilliant with me, and the situation. They removed the engine and laid it out for assessment last week for a representative of this insurance company to look at. The report states that it’s down to excessive wear. It’s a 2000 car, with 25,321 miles and a full SH. They have stated to Austec, and I that they are not paying a penny for the repair.
Challenging them on my mileage, I nearly flipped my lid when a stated its limited milage and the fact that its broken, and I got this.... "Well it's a TVR Sir"
I have had to jump through hoops all afternoon to get this report by requesting by letter, and telephone calls. I have logged my calls with this company with even one employee saying “25,000 miles, that a bit harsh” after informing him of my situation.
After asking what they deem a suitable qualification for an “engineer” to get a second opinion, they suggested that I use a known organisation like the RAC, or AA.
I rang the TVR car club, with who they suggested, so I rang the RAC as we get discount.
I had an interesting conversation.
“How do they know if it’s worn, if they have no information to measure it against”.
After all TVR haven’t released the engine details at all.
They missed that parts of my engine are damaged due to the two shims rattling about in it, and the finger follower being smashed against the spring retainer.
Anyhow, at the end of the day, I have an expensive insurance paid up, for mechanical breakdown, which they are not honouring.
Are my next steps the Insurance ombudsman with the information I have, or shall I let a solicitor deal with it and incur more expense, but with the percentage of a claim being more successful.
Interestingly the policy is about to expire, and I am a little nervous that the stalling method they are using, is there to elevate them from the responsibility after he 12 months is up!
Any other ideas anyone, I am not enjoying my TVR ownership at all?
>> Edited by justinbaker on Monday 10th October 18:06
Justin, sorry to hear about this 
This is becoming a nightmare for you, you only had her a few days and the engine went south.
You should have asked the craft boys to run a diagnosis on the engine, they would have got a Mellings signed assessment, which would hold a lot more water than any insurance inspector...
Ted has made a good point, contact the AA and use legal cover to chase this, legal cover covers you the driver in all legal issues relative to motoring I believe.
But make sure you request a 'specialist' in warranty claims!
Might also make sense to get the specialist in warranty claims to let the warranty company know that the engine will be sent off to the engine designer approved engineering company for analysis, and that what started off as a small claim could end up being a great deal larger if they dont submit on this one.
>> Edited by SXS on Monday 10th October 20:53
This is becoming a nightmare for you, you only had her a few days and the engine went south.
You should have asked the craft boys to run a diagnosis on the engine, they would have got a Mellings signed assessment, which would hold a lot more water than any insurance inspector...
Ted has made a good point, contact the AA and use legal cover to chase this, legal cover covers you the driver in all legal issues relative to motoring I believe.
But make sure you request a 'specialist' in warranty claims!
Might also make sense to get the specialist in warranty claims to let the warranty company know that the engine will be sent off to the engine designer approved engineering company for analysis, and that what started off as a small claim could end up being a great deal larger if they dont submit on this one.
>> Edited by SXS on Monday 10th October 20:53
OK I have slept on this and here's my approach. I have spoken with the AA, who no longer have a legal department!
Motor Plan misleading inspection and my reasons why:
I am under no illusion that Motorplan are trying to fabricate a report, into their favour, that I am sure would be looked at differently by most people. I would feel confident if this claim was to be challenged it would be in my favour, with use of some professional help.
>> Edited by justinbaker on Tuesday 11th October 08:56
>> Edited by justinbaker on Tuesday 11th October 09:32
Motor Plan misleading inspection and my reasons why:
-
There was no data the engineer/inspector had to work with, no dimensions of parts, and no fitment guide. To describe parts as “worn” would need some point of reference.
- The report states that there was excessive wear on the number 6 inlet valve stems. Then reads on to say no excess wear was apparent to both inlet valves so contradicts its own evaluation.There were no signs of poor seating as stated, and if the valves were worn, these seats would be out of line, and not seating correctly. It's contradictory to the “worn” description.
- The report clearly states a mechanical failure, that this policy covers, by the description that the valve tappet shims had become displaced, further damage occurred but was clearly omitted. The operating faces were damaged, (photo evidence) of the top of the spring retainer where it has been crushed under the finger follower, as these shims had dislocated. I would question the integrity of the inspection solely on the fact this has been missed.
- I would question the opinion made in light of the arguments above mainly for not having a point of reference to measure the “wear”. I would be interested in obtaining the engineers method that the inspector used into his conclusion, his data obtained and the measuring equipment used.
- I would also like to know what qualifications the inspector Mr Alan Huscroft has, also if he is a member of a professional institution, for their opinion on his report.
I am under no illusion that Motorplan are trying to fabricate a report, into their favour, that I am sure would be looked at differently by most people. I would feel confident if this claim was to be challenged it would be in my favour, with use of some professional help.
>> Edited by justinbaker on Tuesday 11th October 08:56
>> Edited by justinbaker on Tuesday 11th October 09:32
[Cloud Cuckoo Land]
Why can't TVR have a separate 'SP6 Engine Warranty Dept'?
They could have a couple of dozen brand new engines sitting in a corner somewhere.
Some poor sod has an engine let go.
The repairer contacts TVR, and one of said engines wings its' way to them, quickly 'filling the gap' and getting the victim back on the road ASAFP.
TVR, in conjuction with the repairer could fight it out with any insurance on the customers behalf.
This may be akin to an irresistible force meeting an immovable object in some cases, but at least the ball would be in their court and it wouldn't be down to the unfortunate owner to bang their head against a wall.
It may come down to the owner having to pay in the end (for cases like customer 'abuse'), but at least he / she had their car on the road and this would sweeten the pill somewhat!
This is how warranty works for most (larger) motor manufacturers I believe, so why the hell don't TVR do it????
It may cost them (TVR) a few quid in the end (poetic justice?), but it wouldn't half do wonders for Customer Relations........
[/Cloud Cuckoo Land]
Why can't TVR have a separate 'SP6 Engine Warranty Dept'?
They could have a couple of dozen brand new engines sitting in a corner somewhere.
Some poor sod has an engine let go.
The repairer contacts TVR, and one of said engines wings its' way to them, quickly 'filling the gap' and getting the victim back on the road ASAFP.
TVR, in conjuction with the repairer could fight it out with any insurance on the customers behalf.
This may be akin to an irresistible force meeting an immovable object in some cases, but at least the ball would be in their court and it wouldn't be down to the unfortunate owner to bang their head against a wall.
It may come down to the owner having to pay in the end (for cases like customer 'abuse'), but at least he / she had their car on the road and this would sweeten the pill somewhat!
This is how warranty works for most (larger) motor manufacturers I believe, so why the hell don't TVR do it????
It may cost them (TVR) a few quid in the end (poetic justice?), but it wouldn't half do wonders for Customer Relations........
[/Cloud Cuckoo Land]
? Neil Hi,
Wait and see. I am having the details I sent into the warranty company investigated by a claims manager, where I have pointed out that it’s unacceptable to shrug off my claim based upon the manufacturer of my car. 25,000 miles full Service history.
I will be asking them for correspondence to obtain from TVR engineering that it is acceptable for my engine to be deemed "end of life" at this mileage.
I have prepared for the next step which is an independant agency, just prior to the industries ombudsman.
A further request I made today, was under the Data Protection Act, I am able to have my telephone conversations retrieved, as they record them. I have now requested this in writing. I would imagine by now they know where I am heading with this, I used to work in a solicitors office where I had to retreive conversations from the voice systems when directed to do so.
>> Edited by justinbaker on Tuesday 11th October 15:11
Wait and see. I am having the details I sent into the warranty company investigated by a claims manager, where I have pointed out that it’s unacceptable to shrug off my claim based upon the manufacturer of my car. 25,000 miles full Service history.
I will be asking them for correspondence to obtain from TVR engineering that it is acceptable for my engine to be deemed "end of life" at this mileage.
I have prepared for the next step which is an independant agency, just prior to the industries ombudsman.
A further request I made today, was under the Data Protection Act, I am able to have my telephone conversations retrieved, as they record them. I have now requested this in writing. I would imagine by now they know where I am heading with this, I used to work in a solicitors office where I had to retreive conversations from the voice systems when directed to do so.
>> Edited by justinbaker on Tuesday 11th October 15:11
Justin, i had a claim refused when my 50k mile cerb v8 snapped the crank, taking the block & most of the engine with it.
The warranty holdings inspector said it was "abuse" as the engine appeared to have been run following the crank letting go (well it would since the initial main dealer & factory diagnosis begins with starting it up & trying to run the engine), & refused the claim.
I then managed to find out who the most senior claims manager/inspector was & discussed it with him.
Again initially they tried to suggest it was wear & Tear & not covered, as the policy covers mechanical breakdown only. When i suggested that the crank was indeed a mechanical item & was certainly broken they paid up to the full claim limit.
Do not take the first refusal, but find out who makes the decisions at the warranty company & pester them, its worth it!.
The warranty holdings inspector said it was "abuse" as the engine appeared to have been run following the crank letting go (well it would since the initial main dealer & factory diagnosis begins with starting it up & trying to run the engine), & refused the claim.
I then managed to find out who the most senior claims manager/inspector was & discussed it with him.
Again initially they tried to suggest it was wear & Tear & not covered, as the policy covers mechanical breakdown only. When i suggested that the crank was indeed a mechanical item & was certainly broken they paid up to the full claim limit.
Do not take the first refusal, but find out who makes the decisions at the warranty company & pester them, its worth it!.
justinbaker said:
Neil Hi,
Wait and see. I am having the details I sent into the warranty company investigated by a claims manager, where I have pointed out that it’s unacceptable to shrug off my claim based upon the manufacturer of my car. 25,000 miles full Service history.
I will be asking them for correspondence to obtain from TVR engineering that it is acceptable for my engine to be deemed "end of life" at this mileage.
I have prepared for the next step which is an independant agency, just prior to the industries ombudsman.
A further request I made today, was under the Data Protection Act, I am able to have my telephone conversations retrieved, as they record them. I have now requested this in writing. I would imagine by now they know where I am heading with this, I used to work in a solicitors office where I had to retreive conversations from the voice systems when directed to do so.
Thats the way. There is ample evidence you are NOT in the wrong and ENGINE had failed. Do not accept defeat, I believe JSG did a legal write-up of all these failures etc., might also be an idea to get that off him, that caused quite a stir back then.bjwoods said:
doesn't help those out of waranty - with a very low mileage car...
Do you trust TVR, as they seem to imply that all failures are due to driver abuse... could you prove otherwise?
B
??
Er, if a car is out of warranty then wth is it to do with the factory??? Im sorry but it would be ludicrous for anybody to try and claim anything when they have no warranty on their car. Mileage be damned.
Justin however, is in a different situation. I hope he gets his insurance company over his knee and gives em a damn good rodgering.
DJC said:
doesn't help those out of waranty - with a very low mileage car...
Do you trust TVR, as they seem to imply that all failures are due to driver abuse... could you prove otherwise?
B
??
Er, if a car is out of warranty then wth is it to do with the factory??? Im sorry but it would be ludicrous for anybody to try and claim anything when they have no warranty on their car. Mileage be damned.
Justin however, is in a different situation. I hope he gets his insurance company over his knee and gives em a damn good rodgering.
I agree with DJC all the way on this. A car without warranty is the 'owners responsibility'. I personally think its ludicrous to buy any newish TVR without a warranty. If you buy private, there are a number of warranty companies that you could sign up with at your own premium cost, its an extra security measure just in case... whats the chances 50/50? or more? or less? regardless what the chances are, its still unwise in my opinion to purchase a low mileage car WIHTOUT some form of warranty!
SXS said:
I agree with DJC all the way on this. A car without warranty is the 'owners responsibility'. I personally think its ludicrous to buy any newish TVR without a warranty. If you buy private, there are a number of warranty companies that you could sign up with at your own premium cost, its an extra security measure just in case... whats the chances 50/50? or more? or less? regardless what the chances are, its still unwise in my opinion to purchase a low mileage car WIHTOUT some form of warranty!
Yep, a warranty is a must, I purchased one for £400 when I bought my tam, since then, I have had £600 worth of warranty work paid for by the warranty (faulty heater) If you don't want the warranty, then I would think it is very advisable to keep £5K safe, just in case, if you buy with eyes wide open, you won't be disappointed.
SXS said:
DJC said:
bjwoods said:
doesn't help those out of waranty - with a very low mileage car...
Do you trust TVR, as they seem to imply that all failures are due to driver abuse... could you prove otherwise?
B
??
Er, if a car is out of warranty then wth is it to do with the factory??? Im sorry but it would be ludicrous for anybody to try and claim anything when they have no warranty on their car. Mileage be damned.
Justin however, is in a different situation. I hope he gets his insurance company over his knee and gives em a damn good rodgering.
I agree with DJC all the way on this. A car without warranty is the 'owners responsibility'. I personally think its ludicrous to buy any newish TVR without a warranty. If you buy private, there are a number of warranty companies that you could sign up with at your own premium cost, its an extra security measure just in case... whats the chances 50/50? or more? or less? regardless what the chances are, its still unwise in my opinion to purchase a low mileage car WIHTOUT some form of warranty!
My point was that there are 'some' 13 month -2 year old cars out there with less than 6 - 15k miles on them with the engine gone.... NS cancelled 'goodwill' so instead of covering up the numbers of s6's failing their are a number of very p****d off owners with engines gone, which bear in mind the engines designer has said TVR have modified the design and it will FAIL in so many ways. is hardly the norm when excepting out of warranty faults... IE DESIGN FAULT, FIT for purpose SALE of Goods act-
Don't think many other £40k - 50k sporst cars manufacturers would even consider the risk of negative publicity....
Taken a look at autotrader recently, used tuscan prices are falling horrendously, that's even if you can sell one.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Tuesday 11th October 19:46
BJ, this has been talked to death, what can we say? what can we do?
If you havent got a warranty, get one, and then just hope for the best mate.
Many owners are still going strong with only regular niggles and no engine faults... short straw thing? god knows... luck? do you believe in that?
One of the main reasons why I just stuck with my cerb to be honest... I'm a keeper... if I ever decide to buy a speed 6, it'll either have to be a shot one to get the craft fix, or it'll have to be a new one with the warranty.
I guess the transition from Wheeler to NS has probably pissed many customers off in a number of areas. But theres nothing we pistonheaders can do about it. Its a private limited company, he can do as he pleases.
Best course of action is to write a letter, I guess the more letters he gets from more current customers, maybe, just maybe, he might turn... but he's a bloody tight one with his money from what I hear! so good luck!
If you havent got a warranty, get one, and then just hope for the best mate.
Many owners are still going strong with only regular niggles and no engine faults... short straw thing? god knows... luck? do you believe in that?
One of the main reasons why I just stuck with my cerb to be honest... I'm a keeper... if I ever decide to buy a speed 6, it'll either have to be a shot one to get the craft fix, or it'll have to be a new one with the warranty.
I guess the transition from Wheeler to NS has probably pissed many customers off in a number of areas. But theres nothing we pistonheaders can do about it. Its a private limited company, he can do as he pleases.
Best course of action is to write a letter, I guess the more letters he gets from more current customers, maybe, just maybe, he might turn... but he's a bloody tight one with his money from what I hear! so good luck!
hey i've got a griff, which is tvr's problem....
As I would have liked a tuscan, when they come out until now, but in 2001 they were saying the 2000 engine problems are fixed now!!!!!
fast forward 5 years same again..
residuals are stuffed on s6 cars, and unless you are loaded, it too big a finacial risk, iknow, of more than a few owners 2000 - 2002 cars that just can't sell them.
B
As I would have liked a tuscan, when they come out until now, but in 2001 they were saying the 2000 engine problems are fixed now!!!!!
fast forward 5 years same again..
residuals are stuffed on s6 cars, and unless you are loaded, it too big a finacial risk, iknow, of more than a few owners 2000 - 2002 cars that just can't sell them.
B
bjwoods said:
hey i've got a griff, which is tvr's problem....
As I would have liked a tuscan, when they come out until now, but in 2001 they were saying the 2000 engine problems are fixed now!!!!!
fast forward 5 years same again..
residuals are stuffed on s6 cars, and unless you are loaded, it too big a finacial risk, iknow, of more than a few owners 2000 - 2002 cars that just can't sell them.
B
Tough nuts. Buyer beware, etc.
I had a Griff, cracking 4.3. Loved it. Part ex'd it for a car I barely liked, with an engine that would probably explode on me at some pt. and that I could just about afford and would lose me money faster than my fiancee could spend it. All on a whim and an inkling that what I was buying wasnt just a great sportscar but quite possibly might turn out to be an absolute legend.
Ppl like you are the reason I would generally prefer TVR to exist producing maybe 200 cars a yr, go bust every 5 yrs and live hand to mouth. Keep you in your BMWs and Mercs where you belong.
Cant afford the clap? Dont shag a Blackpool slut. TVRs...its that simple.
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