Doubling cash for NHS had no impact on health

[rdjohn]

From the Telegraph. It is behind a paywall so you may need the ability to get round that.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/25/lord-b...

The article is absolutely frightening. It seems that no matter how much is thrown at the NHS, outcomes, in terms of life expectancy, remain pretty much the same.

I suppose today’s report on maternity services demonstrates again that even from the very beginning, things are really bad. UK farmers are in the middle of lambing season and possibly achieve better overall results in the middle of a barn, or field.

A brief extract:-
Lord Bethell said: “We’ve doubled the amount we spend from basically £100bn to £200bn a year in the last 17 years for no impact on our nation’s health.
“The nation’s health is for the bottom half of the country deteriorated, and for the top half marginally improved, and overall average longevity has flatlined after years of gains.
“That is a terrible return on investment. And the Treasury, quite rightly, are furious and are basically nihilistic about the way in which we spend on health. They just think it’s a totally sunk cost, no benefit for the economy and for the financial and spiritual prosperity of the country. And they’ve got a point.

[Slow.Patrol]

I believe Starmer is looking for a reason to sack Streeting.

This could be it.

[grumbledoak]

rdjohn said:

The article is absolutely frightening. It seems that no matter how much is thrown at the NHS, outcomes, in terms of life expectancy, remain pretty much the same.

Hardly a surprise, is it?

It has been obvious for as long as I can remember that it is a bottomless pit with no accountability and little real interest in patient outcomes.

[williamp]

Whatever cash you throw at it, it will expand to spend the cash Not improving what it has, but doing more

[sjc]

grumbledoak said:

rdjohn said:

The article is absolutely frightening. It seems that no matter how much is thrown at the NHS, outcomes, in terms of life expectancy, remain pretty much the same.

Hardly a surprise, is it?

It has been obvious for as long as I can remember that it is a bottomless pit with no accountability and little real interest in patient outcomes.

Until those spending the money in the NHS treat it like their own, nothing will change....the wastefulness is simply mind blowing.

Edited by sjc on Thursday 26th February 18:03

[G Thang]

Average life expectancy is 81. Not too bad for a country with st weather where a high proportion sit on their arses all day eating st.

[Bill]

Inflation accounts for most of that, and COVID a significant chunk of the rest. Who was a health minister around then??

[.:ian:.]

They have no concept of the value for money.
https://beta.jobs.nhs.uk/candidate/jobadvert/C9220...

£30k to wander around looking for fires. 3x 9 hour shifts a week, so they need at least 3 people per day and 3 of those to cover the week, so I'm guessing 9 employees, at least.
£300k plus whatever ludicrous employers pension contribution they get.

[rdjohn]

Bill said:

Inflation accounts for most of that, and COVID a significant chunk of the rest. Who was a health minister around then??

Inflation counts for 64%. Any serious business would hope to offset most of that by significant improvements in productivity

[tim0409]

Bill said:

Inflation accounts for most of that, and COVID a significant chunk of the rest. Who was a health minister around then??

In a sense it doesn’t matter who the health minister was at the time, the opposition parties were all calling for even more insane covid policies, which directly led to the massive spike in waiting times we see today. Not once did anyone carry out a cost/benefit analysis because “if it saves on life…”

[Slow.Patrol]

G Thang said:

Average life expectancy is 81. Not too bad for a country with st weather where a high proportion sit on their arses all day eating st.

It's dropping.

I think covid knocked off a year and it is expected that unhealthy lifestyles will impact that further.

[ATG]

Numbers are wrong. Spending is up about 50% in real terms in that time and the population has grown by about 13%, and it's an aging population so you'd expect it to need more healthcare and people are living less healthy life styles so again you'd expect them to need more healthcare.

As usual, if it's in the Telegraph, it's mostly bks.

Read a better paper. Try the Economist or the FT. They aren't left wing rags. They aren't idiotic gor blimey rage bait peddlers like The Mail or the Telegraph. They're serious papers with editorial standards and a mission to inform the public and they deserve our support and we deserve their sort of quality journalism.

[Bill]

rdjohn said:

Inflation counts for 64%. Any serious business would hope to offset most of that by significant improvements in productivity

How do you know there aren't significant improvements that have been overwhelmed by the challenges (obesity and ageing population to name 2) that it faces??

[ATG]

Bill said:

rdjohn said:

Inflation counts for 64%. Any serious business would hope to offset most of that by significant improvements in productivity

How do you know there aren't significant improvements that have been overwhelmed by the challenges (obesity and ageing population to name 2) that it faces??

And the NHS was having a retention and recruitment crisis because pay was inadequate, so salaries had to be rise with no expectation of increased productivity. Claiming those pay rises could have been made conditional on productivity improvements is pure fantasy. The productivity problems are systemic, not down to the way individual clinical roles are executed.

[pghstochaj]

I can’t read the article but, is it a qualitative analysis of spend vs outcomes accounting for demographics, population size, inflation (general, medical specific), increase/decrease to quality of life (not just length of life), allowing for one offs like the impacts of covid, allowing for other variables such as worsening diets etc?

Or is it literally “we spend more today (unadjusted for anything) than x years ago and the life expectancy is the same”?

[M1AGM]

ATG said:

And the NHS was having a retention and recruitment crisis because pay was inadequate, so salaries had to be rise with no expectation of increased productivity. Claiming those pay rises could have been made conditional on productivity improvements is pure fantasy. The productivity problems are systemic, not down to the way individual clinical roles are executed.

Streeting literally said no more money without reform. Possibly his fantasy but that’s what he promised at the ballot box.

I agree about it being a systemic problem.

Things are supposedly improving which is good news. Really does not feel like that to me. I’m skeptical.

https://www.nationalhealthexecutive.com/articles/n...

[Scrimpton]

.:ian:. said:

They have no concept of the value for money.
https://beta.jobs.nhs.uk/candidate/jobadvert/C9220...

£30k to wander around looking for fires. 3x 9 hour shifts a week, so they need at least 3 people per day and 3 of those to cover the week, so I'm guessing 9 employees, at least.
£300k plus whatever ludicrous employers pension contribution they get.

I enjoyed how an understanding of equality and diversity was essential knowledge and experience whereas an understanding of evacuation procedures of hospitals is merely desirable.

[nikaiyo2]

.:ian:. said:

They have no concept of the value for money.
https://beta.jobs.nhs.uk/candidate/jobadvert/C9220...

£30k to wander around looking for fires. 3x 9 hour shifts a week, so they need at least 3 people per day and 3 of those to cover the week, so I'm guessing 9 employees, at least.
£300k plus whatever ludicrous employers pension contribution they get.

It’s weird I know a couple of people employed in clinical roles for NhS and they are so committed and under paid it’s humbling.

Back,office staff seem to do very little for significant salaries.

A mate of mine is an electrician. He was self employed, but working for a contractor earning decent money as you would expect.

He stopped and went to work for the NHS. He now earns more than when he was with a contractor and his private work. So pension, sick pay, guaranteed pay rises and higher pay.

He loves it reckons he does 1/4 of the work for 2.5 times the pay.

[Legacywr]

It won’t until you get tough on the availability of bad food, tobacco and alcohol.

[S600BSB]

Legacywr said:

It won t until you get tough on the availability of bad food, tobacco and alcohol.

Exactly. Need to focus on prevention and stopping people literally eating themselves to ill health and death. The country is full of obese people.