Mid-engine sports car project - reality check needed

[RafaelMidEngine]

Morning Pistonheads

I'm an automotive mechanic based in Switzerland, exploring whether a mid-engine sports car at £75k maximum is viable. I'd value input from people who've built cars or understand low-volume manufacturing.

Brand name: N.A.D. - No frills. Accessible. Different.

No frills: Manual gearbox, hydraulic steering, analog gauges. Simple construction, proven components. Focus on driving rather than features. Minimal driver aids - no traction control, no launch control, no driving modes. Daily usable but driver-focused.

Accessible: Target maximum £75,000 (aiming lower if possible). That's well under Noble M500 (£150k) or Lotus Emira (£100k) territory. Also accessible in ownership. Honda K24 means standard parts availability, no exotic servicing requirements. Any competent mechanic can work on it, not dealer-only.

Different: Mid-engine layout at this price point with modern reliability. Pagani-style exposed engine bay for visual drama and practical access - easy maintenance, tuning potential, or even engine swaps.

Technical Concept:

-Mid-engine, RWD, 2-seater
-Honda K24 (4Piston Racing build, 320-350hp target)
-Steel tube spaceframe chassis + fibreglass bodywork
-Target weight: ~1,300kg
-6-speed manual gearbox (Aisin - researching specific model)
-ABS for daily usability and insurance, but no traction control or electronic extras
-Conventional steel brakes with performance calipers (no carbon ceramic)
-Hydraulic steering, analog gauges
-Exposed engine bay (Pagani-inspired) for accessibility and aesthetics
-UK-built, IVA-compliant

Parts Sourcing Philosophy:

Low-volume manufacturing means using proven, available components intelligently. If quality off the shelf parts exist, wheels, brakes, suspension components, lighting units, possibly windscreen, they should be used. No point reinventing what already works well.
The key is integration and design cohesion. Parts should look intentional, not dated or randomly selected. Well chosen components in a cohesive design can look better than poorly-executed custom parts on a bigger budget.

My Current Situation:

To be clear, I'm in early feasibility stage. No funding, no prototype, no automotive engineer on board yet. I'm researching UK specifically because IVA seems like the only realistic low-volume homologation route, and the supplier ecosystem (Bilstein, AP Racing, specialist fabricators) is there. Caterham, Ariel, and BAC prove the low-volume model can work.

If this proves viable through engineering validation, UK would be the location. Right now I'm working out whether to pursue this further.

What I've Done So Far:

-Researched IVA requirements extensively
-Studied how Ariel, Caterham, and BAC approach low-volume manufacturing
-Estimated costs for major components (engine, suspension, brakes, chassis fabrication)
-Mapped out potential UK vs. European parts sourcing (Poland/Turkey for chassis/fibreglass fabrication, UK final assembly)
-Worked through realistic production numbers (50-100 units/year)
-Identified 4Piston Racing in USA as best K24 builder for this application

What I Haven't Done:

-Found an automotive engineer to validate chassis design (I'm a mechanic, not an engineer - I need FEA and structural design expertise)
-Built a prototype or detailed CAD
-Gone through IVA process myself
-Validated market demand beyond research
-Committed to UK relocation or setup

What I'm Realistic About:

-This is exploration, not a funded project yet
-Low-volume automotive is challenging and most projects fail
-I need proper engineering expertise for chassis design
-£75k target might prove difficult once all costs are factored in
-This only works if both the engineering and business case stack up
-Market validation is critical before committing resources

Where I Need Your Input:

Pricing reality: Is £75k maximum achievable for this specification? What costs am I likely underestimating?

IVA experience: Anyone taken a self-built or low-volume mid-engine car through IVA recently? What are the common pitfalls or delays?

Chassis engineering: For a steel tube spaceframe, should I hire a full-time automotive engineer (£50-80k/year) or are there consultancies that work with early-stage projects?

Parts sourcing: I'm seeing significant cost savings on chassis fabrication in Poland/Turkey vs. UK. Anyone tried offshore component manufacturing then UK final assembly for IVA compliance?

Market reality: Is there genuine demand for a mid-engine sports car at this price point, or is the market saturated?

First steps: If you were validating this concept, what would you prioritize first? Engineering validation? Prototype build? Market testing?

K24 mid-engine experience: Anyone here done a mid-engine K24 build? Transmission choice, cooling challenges, packaging issues?

What I'm Looking For:

-Reality checks from people who've built cars or run small-scale manufacturing
-Pointers to UK chassis designers or consultancies who work with startups
-IVA process insights from anyone who's been through it
-Honest assessment of the concept - what works, what doesn't
-If this resonates and you have automotive engineering experience, I'd value a conversation about feasibility
-All input appreciated - critical feedback, suggestions, experiences, or even interest in the project.

Thanks in advance for any input and have a great day.

Rafael

[crofty1984]

I've worked in automotive. What is your project budget? Who will manage your sourcing and QA? What's your budget for tooling? What will the prototype phase involve? What assembly shop and staff will you need?
Not trying to put you down, just giving you some questions to ask yourself. I think it's a tall order, but if be glad to be proven wrong.

[Panamax]

In 2026 and beyond will anybody really want to buy a performance car without ABS?

IMO this is one of the things that sank the Perana Z-one, later reinvigorated (??) as the AC 378 GT Zagato.

"The AC 378 GT Zagato is a rare British-Italian supercar, with only about 10 examples produced between 2012 and 2013, featuring a 6.2-liter GM V8 engine (approx. 434 600 hp) and a lightweight, distinctive Italian-designed coupe body. Unveiled at the 2012 Geneva Motor Show, it was developed by AC Cars and Zagato, with styling by Nori Harado, including the iconic double-bubble roof."

OK, that one wasn't mid-engine, but if you need a life lesson in the mid-engine department just check out Ginetta's G60, formerly Farboud/Farbio GTS and who knows what else. Again, supposedly "driver focused" so no ABS. I love mid-engine cars but that one was a complete joke at the hefty asking price in a competitive market.

[Clad-Hach]

Just a quick comment about the name N.A.D.

In the UK someones nad's are a short slang name for gonads...or someones balls.

[Sebring440]

RafaelMidEngine said:

What costs am I likely underestimating?

You have put any costs in your original post, so we don't know if you're under estimation (or over estimating). Have you thought about the circa £50 million in initial development? What is the bottom line of the BOM? Hours to build?

[Monkey88]

Post deleted

[Olivergt]

Any pictures of what it might look like?

Regardless of what's underneath the body, people are going to be sold on what it looks like.

People do judge a book by its cover and won't be interested no matter how good a drivers car it is, if it looks like a donkey.

You need to sell an emotion, not a vehicle.

[rodericb]

Interesting project! Why the K24? You can buy Ecoboost 2.3 crate engines from Ford. I did read something about the Toyota G16E-GTS being available as a crate engine too but is probably not really a thing as they're throwing them into GR Yaris's, Corollas and Lexus LBX Morizos as quickly as they can build them....

[Tickle]

Olivergt said:

Any pictures of what it might look like?

Regardless of what's underneath the body, people are going to be sold on what it looks like.

People do judge a book by its cover and won't be interested no matter how good a drivers car it is, if it looks like a donkey.

You need to sell an emotion, not a vehicle.

This, looks and usability (by usability I don't mean 4 doors and a boot).

I think this about the Zenos E10, on paper it had all the right ingredients and CV's of those doing the engineering. The look, lack of a practical roof made it a swing-and-a-miss.

[andy43]

Tickle said:

Olivergt said:

Any pictures of what it might look like?

Regardless of what's underneath the body, people are going to be sold on what it looks like.

People do judge a book by its cover and won't be interested no matter how good a drivers car it is, if it looks like a donkey.

You need to sell an emotion, not a vehicle.

This, looks and usability (by usability I don't mean 4 doors and a boot).

I think this about the Zenos E10, on paper it had all the right ingredients and CV's of those doing the engineering. The look, lack of a practical roof made it a swing-and-a-miss.

Yeah it absolutely has to look stunning. Anything less and it simply won’t sell.
Poland is a good call for the fibreglass - a lot of boat builders get their hulls/boats produced there.
What’s the chances of crate supplies of the Audi 5 cylinder?

[andrewpandrew]

Clad-Hach said:

Just a quick comment about the name N.A.D.

In the UK someones nad's are a short slang name for gonads...or someones balls.

Or the brand of audio and home theatre components.

[thebraketester]

Anything is possible with the correct budget. However I can't see you producing what you have stated at that price point, given you want it making in the UK

Edited by thebraketester on Sunday 15th March 11:17

[spikeyhead]

If you're thinking of making these on a commercial basis, you are very very unlikely to get Honda crate engines

[RafaelMidEngine]

crofty1984 said:

I've worked in automotive. What is your project budget? Who will manage your sourcing and QA? What's your budget for tooling? What will the prototype phase involve? What assembly shop and staff will you need?
Not trying to put you down, just giving you some questions to ask yourself. I think it's a tall order, but if be glad to be proven wrong.

Project budget: £60k self funded for prototype phase. Plan is to build a functional proof of concept with foreign fabrication partners, then use that to secure investment for production refinement.

Sourcing/QA: Me initially, working directly with fabrication partners. Proper QA structure would come with production phase and investment.

Tooling: Minimal for prototype, basic fabrication methods. Production tooling comes later once concept is validated.

Prototype phase: Functional rolling chassis with used/budget components where sensible. Would need an automotive engineer for chassis design validation, likely consultancy basis rather than full time. Goal is to prove the concept works and pricing is viable, not perfect finish.

Assembly/staff: Just me + engineer (consultancy) + Foreign fabrication partners for prototype. Production setup (UK-based, small team) would be post-investment.

I'm aware £60k is lean for automotive development. The approach is old school, build and prove first, refine second - rather than CAD/FEA everything upfront.

Thanks for engaging seriously.

[RafaelMidEngine]

Panamax said:

In 2026 and beyond will anybody really want to buy a performance car without ABS?

IMO this is one of the things that sank the Perana Z-one, later reinvigorated (??) as the AC 378 GT Zagato.

"The AC 378 GT Zagato is a rare British-Italian supercar, with only about 10 examples produced between 2012 and 2013, featuring a 6.2-liter GM V8 engine (approx. 434 600 hp) and a lightweight, distinctive Italian-designed coupe body. Unveiled at the 2012 Geneva Motor Show, it was developed by AC Cars and Zagato, with styling by Nori Harado, including the iconic double-bubble roof."

OK, that one wasn't mid-engine, but if you need a life lesson in the mid-engine department just check out Ginetta's G60, formerly Farboud/Farbio GTS and who knows what else. Again, supposedly "driver focused" so no ABS. I love mid-engine cars but that one was a complete joke at the hefty asking price in a competitive market.

You're right, that there probably won't be anyone who buys a car without ABS, that's the reason I included it under Technical Concept.

[RafaelMidEngine]

Clad-Hach said:

Just a quick comment about the name N.A.D.

In the UK someones nad's are a short slang name for gonads...or someones balls.

Thanks for letting me know.

[RafaelMidEngine]

Sebring440 said:

You have put any costs in your original post, so we don't know if you're under estimation (or over estimating). Have you thought about the circa £50 million in initial development? What is the bottom line of the BOM? Hours to build?

I meant under or over estimation of the material costs to build one car and sell with profit.

Initial development I don't see as high as £50 million. Because much of the car uses already proven components available on the market, the most money would go into chassis, bodywork and interior development.

I didn't make a BOM yet and also have no idea of build hours needed, but if packaged well you could have chassis and interior units from Poland and body panels from Turkey and "simply" assemble it in UK.

[Don1]

My first thought was Zenos as well - great idea, IIRC far cheaper than your proposed approach. Also a four-pot engine sonically isn’t the one people go for.

I would personally put the money into resto-modding TVR’s. Seriously. The resto-mod market is red hot, TVR’s are cheap, basic platform already there and the name has a lot of love behind it. There is now a restomod Esprit….

[MDMA .]

As a low volume manufacturer, you’ll be exempt from a lot of things, but still need to meet certain standards (I think), Euro 6 emissions etc. Is the K24 Euro 6 compliant?

[RafaelMidEngine]

andy43 said:

Yeah it absolutely has to look stunning. Anything less and it simply won t sell.
Poland is a good call for the fibreglass - a lot of boat builders get their hulls/boats produced there.
What s the chances of crate supplies of the Audi 5 cylinder?

Working with Ismo Hirvonen (automotive designer). He designed the N.A.D. logo and we have a contract for three different car view designs in development (no colour). I would like to share my sketch ideas but Im not able at the moment.

If I heard correctly from Donkervoort the Audi five Cylinder is not sold anymore because of emission regulations.