Have I become a beliEVer?
Discussion
Was firmly in the anti EV camp and reading some of the polarising threads has actually helped to convince me to jump ship as it were (thank you) and with easing of mileage requirements I'd only need public charger a couple of times a year.
Main issue is 520d getting leggy at 150k so needs to be jettisoned, it'll do 300k (it's only 2018) but the chief needs a newer fresher car if I'm to keep my fun cars (S4/997)
Main driver is 47 mpg diesel now being obsolete so any ICE is going to bring average mpg to something like 35 mpg, so that's a big personal increase on c. 16k personal miles p.a. Aware there are options but brand must be premium so sorry Skoda et al, not for us
There are some real EV bargains compared to ICE equivalents so shortlist being q4 etron (range over 300m and yes I know it's a VW/Skoda in a frock) or BMW i40, both being big sellers so lots of choice. My head says a Tesla Y new shape but heart doesn't. Key is to be depreciation friendly 2 or 3 yrs old with sub 40k miles so can canter toward 8 yr battery warranty
Don't want a lease, I'd rather pay cash 20-25k and charge some business miles.
Any alternatives I'm missing?
Main issue is 520d getting leggy at 150k so needs to be jettisoned, it'll do 300k (it's only 2018) but the chief needs a newer fresher car if I'm to keep my fun cars (S4/997)
Main driver is 47 mpg diesel now being obsolete so any ICE is going to bring average mpg to something like 35 mpg, so that's a big personal increase on c. 16k personal miles p.a. Aware there are options but brand must be premium so sorry Skoda et al, not for us
There are some real EV bargains compared to ICE equivalents so shortlist being q4 etron (range over 300m and yes I know it's a VW/Skoda in a frock) or BMW i40, both being big sellers so lots of choice. My head says a Tesla Y new shape but heart doesn't. Key is to be depreciation friendly 2 or 3 yrs old with sub 40k miles so can canter toward 8 yr battery warranty
Don't want a lease, I'd rather pay cash 20-25k and charge some business miles.
Any alternatives I'm missing?
In my experience (albeit second hand from other owners) the early MEB-based VAG stuff is cheap for a reason - it's pretty rubbish. The later cars may be better.
Regarding battery warranties, some (but not all) cars have a mileage limitation as well as an age one. If you're doing 20k miles per year you may well find you hit that well before 8 years.
ETA: Is it the car or the brand which you want to be "premium"? Because it's certainly not a word I'd use for the fit and finish of the Q4 Etron!
Regarding battery warranties, some (but not all) cars have a mileage limitation as well as an age one. If you're doing 20k miles per year you may well find you hit that well before 8 years.
ETA: Is it the car or the brand which you want to be "premium"? Because it's certainly not a word I'd use for the fit and finish of the Q4 Etron!
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 17th March 19:57
Yes, if you can mostly charge at home an EV is the ideal complement to a fun car; cheap, convenient and pleasant to drive.
Eg the Q4 Sportback e-Tron 40, WLTP range 309 miles, real motorway range 190-240 miles depending on temperature
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1528/Audi-Q4-Sportb...
In my experience it's not a problem finding chargers as needed on a long road trip, but if there's a regular journey you want to do without stopping, I'd advise checking realistic motorway range on the EV database before committing to a particular model.
v8notbrave said:
There are some real EV bargains compared to ICE equivalents so shortlist being q4 etron (range over 300m and yes I know it's a VW/Skoda in a frock) or BMW i40, both being big sellers so lots of choice.
You should know that the official advertised range of EVs is significantly more than they actually deliver in real world motorway use. Official range is at an average of 29 mph in 23 degree C weather. Real world, you're doing long journeys at 70mph, air resistance means range is a lot less than WLTP.Eg the Q4 Sportback e-Tron 40, WLTP range 309 miles, real motorway range 190-240 miles depending on temperature
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1528/Audi-Q4-Sportb...
In my experience it's not a problem finding chargers as needed on a long road trip, but if there's a regular journey you want to do without stopping, I'd advise checking realistic motorway range on the EV database before committing to a particular model.
Thanks chaps, some great insights
I think it's good old fashioned badge snobbery, anything Japanese, Chinese, Korean whilst potentially good are not wetting appetites. Polestar nice but not sure big enough inside and struggles like Tesla not to be a rep mobile. This is PH after all so I veer toward German supremacy
Yes aware advertised range is nonsense, say Q4 which is 330 wltp, if I got 250 on average and 200 winter the maths work even with the 3p tax on the horizon. Good to get your feedback kambites I think late 23 was a revision so this 2nd generation German stuff has more efficiency and updated tech/software (discounted EQC.and original etron which are amazing value but looks 1st gen tech wise and I think you'd struggle to get good range). If I max out fun cars in the summer mileage could be 15k p.a. on EV so have 4 or 5 years in warranty
Tesla maybe semi-Chinese but they do seem to have nailed the tech, charging and efficiency better than anyone so a test drive will be needed to test the trim quality
I really do favour BMW as driving home tonight in the rain the rear drive handling/balance is so good and I'm sure the i4 retains this dna. Appreciate the inputs
I think it's good old fashioned badge snobbery, anything Japanese, Chinese, Korean whilst potentially good are not wetting appetites. Polestar nice but not sure big enough inside and struggles like Tesla not to be a rep mobile. This is PH after all so I veer toward German supremacy
Yes aware advertised range is nonsense, say Q4 which is 330 wltp, if I got 250 on average and 200 winter the maths work even with the 3p tax on the horizon. Good to get your feedback kambites I think late 23 was a revision so this 2nd generation German stuff has more efficiency and updated tech/software (discounted EQC.and original etron which are amazing value but looks 1st gen tech wise and I think you'd struggle to get good range). If I max out fun cars in the summer mileage could be 15k p.a. on EV so have 4 or 5 years in warranty
Tesla maybe semi-Chinese but they do seem to have nailed the tech, charging and efficiency better than anyone so a test drive will be needed to test the trim quality
I really do favour BMW as driving home tonight in the rain the rear drive handling/balance is so good and I'm sure the i4 retains this dna. Appreciate the inputs
I have a 340i. If I make the move to the dark side it'll be an i4.
They really do seem to hold their value, look normal (I'm not the SUV type) and aren't carrying things like the ICCU issue plaguing the Korean stuff. That said although I'm always looking I'm not in a hurry to change.
They really do seem to hold their value, look normal (I'm not the SUV type) and aren't carrying things like the ICCU issue plaguing the Korean stuff. That said although I'm always looking I'm not in a hurry to change.
I was choosing (used) between a BMW i4 40 and a Polestar 2 LRDM, went for the latter mainly as it was cheaper at the time. The Polestar did feel subjectively higher quality inside to me, just getting out of one car and into another (without driving either).
One thing with all BMWs is that it can be tricky finding a used car with the options you want as they're sold individually, whereas Polestar group them in packs so easy to spot.
However the BMW has better range and probably handling balance than at least the early PS2s, and I didn't find anything in my research to put me off buying one, they seem to get good write-ups.
The downsides of Tesla are well enunciated on many threads on here and pretty obvious: Swasticar, Musk, sparten interior (I like the descriptor Scandanavian prison), generic styling etc
The less obvious for those who haven't used one are some of the upsides. The integration of the navigation, charging locations the state of charge of the battery, battery range & charging software means range anxiety is just not a thing. Not an issue if you're looking at a local runabout, but for something within which you are going to travel to pastures new, the ease of finding and charging become bigger factors. Superchargers are numerous and well maintained. I am sure that there are better EVs but I am not sure there is a better package. It's the no brain option and just works without drama.
I'd get a Model 3 performance and spend your bandwidth worrying about something else.
ETA: Im in the US and here the Supercharger network is massively differentiated- I do not know about the UK public DC fast charging options, but do not underestimate the importance of this. The first time you can't find a working charger, or get your phone to connect or have a problem will be the point where the badge on the front or the swathes of leather become irrelevant.
The less obvious for those who haven't used one are some of the upsides. The integration of the navigation, charging locations the state of charge of the battery, battery range & charging software means range anxiety is just not a thing. Not an issue if you're looking at a local runabout, but for something within which you are going to travel to pastures new, the ease of finding and charging become bigger factors. Superchargers are numerous and well maintained. I am sure that there are better EVs but I am not sure there is a better package. It's the no brain option and just works without drama.
I'd get a Model 3 performance and spend your bandwidth worrying about something else.
ETA: Im in the US and here the Supercharger network is massively differentiated- I do not know about the UK public DC fast charging options, but do not underestimate the importance of this. The first time you can't find a working charger, or get your phone to connect or have a problem will be the point where the badge on the front or the swathes of leather become irrelevant.
Edited by ShortBeardy on Wednesday 18th March 04:32
I think the perceived quality of the Tesla is less but the reality is their interiors literally show not wear after spaceship mileage. Ours is 48k and the steering wheels shows no shine and the seats are as new.
So the German stuff might look and smell better but it doesn’t wear as well in my experience.
So the German stuff might look and smell better but it doesn’t wear as well in my experience.
I think the materials in Teslas are well chosen and the current ones are pretty well screwed together. We have a 2 year old Y with 40k that looks great. My daughter has a 3 with white interior and at 5 years and 40k it looks perfect. Unfortunately many people expect lots of buttons, knobs and leather and they're exactly the things that have been designed out in an effort to reduce weight, increase efficiency and reliability, and yes I am sure, a bit of cost.
There is the constant whine about range, alleged consequent range anxiety and not being able to 900 miles with a full tank of diesel. It's just not an issue.
Reduced weight pays dividends in performance & range and as a result, the size of the battery required to achieve the design goals... and a smaller battery means less weight... and round and round we go.
All else being equal an efficient EV with a smaller battery will also charge faster in terms of miles per hour.
It's no accident that the Teslas are also among the more efficient EVs with good performance.
But it works in the other direction too: Choose a big comfy SUV and it will suck electrons require a big battery and will not yield anything like the driving experience or cost benefits that could be achieved with a little more thought.
ETA: to the OP... spend some time on the Rsymons youtube channel.
There is the constant whine about range, alleged consequent range anxiety and not being able to 900 miles with a full tank of diesel. It's just not an issue.
Reduced weight pays dividends in performance & range and as a result, the size of the battery required to achieve the design goals... and a smaller battery means less weight... and round and round we go.
All else being equal an efficient EV with a smaller battery will also charge faster in terms of miles per hour.
It's no accident that the Teslas are also among the more efficient EVs with good performance.
But it works in the other direction too: Choose a big comfy SUV and it will suck electrons require a big battery and will not yield anything like the driving experience or cost benefits that could be achieved with a little more thought.
ETA: to the OP... spend some time on the Rsymons youtube channel.
Familymad said:
I think the perceived quality of the Tesla is less but the reality is their interiors literally show not wear after spaceship mileage. Ours is 48k and the steering wheels shows no shine and the seats are as new.
So the German stuff might look and smell better but it doesn t wear as well in my experience.
Maybe but I’d also say the perceived design quality of a Tesla is way better than the reality. Take a look at the trim pieces around the carpet, the tailgate hinge design, the wheel arch liner etc. And there are aspects of the software which are much more driver focused on other makes. Tesla is great for the person who wants to anything but drive, as tech goes for a driver, there are better cars. It will probably start an internet war but compare Tesla to say a BMW, and accepting some things are options, the bmw has head up display, more suspension options, warns and counts you down to lower speed limits, roundabouts and even sharp bends, top down real camera views, better blind spot warning system using radar to know the closing speed as well as distance and a much more obvious way of telling you, more seat options including once’s that will hold you better in corners (something Tesla only introduced in the latest model 3 performance and way above what you want to pay). The Tesla is great if you want to play fart noises, watch streaming services whilst charging, play games. I’ve had Teslas for 9 years and a bmw EV with the same driver tech as you can get in an i4 and you do notice the different prioritises and what each brand wants to aim for. So the German stuff might look and smell better but it doesn t wear as well in my experience.
Sounds like you’ve done your homework. Your thinking makes a lot of sense here tbf. You’re hitting the sweet spot of EV ownership: enough range to make public charging rare, premium brand, and aiming for lightly used cars to maximize warranty and minimize depreciation.
A few thoughts from someone who’s been down the same path:
Audi Q4 e-tron is solid, especially for that price/age range. You get premium feel, decent tech, and reliability isn’t bad. Plus resale is strong for these because EV adoption is still ramping.
BMW i4 (I think you meant i4 rather than i40, as the i40 isn’t an EV) is another contender. Really sharp drive, good interior, and BMW’s warranty package is decent. Might be slightly harder to find sub-40k miles at 2–3 years old, but worth keeping an eye on.
Tesla Model Y (new shape). I get your hesitation. The resale value is solid, the charging network unbeatable, and the software is next-level, but if your heart’s not in it, you’ll notice every day.
Other things to consider:
Polestar 2 – premium feel, solid range, lots of tech. Harder to find bargains but worth looking at 2–3 year old examples.
Jaguar I-Pace – sporty, fun, premium, but depreciation can be steeper, so you might pick up a good deal.
Mercedes EQB / EQC - EQC is older but a proper SUV feel, EQB is newer, smaller, more efficient.
A quick tip: focus on 2–3 year old cars with under 40k miles, like you said, and the battery warranty is your friend. That’s the point where EVs really start to feel like low-maintenance, reliable cars instead of a gamble.
For your mileage, premium brand, and cash-buy goal, the Q4 e-tron or BMW i4 are probably your best sweet spot. Polestar or EQ models are worth watching if you spot a bargain.
A few thoughts from someone who’s been down the same path:
Audi Q4 e-tron is solid, especially for that price/age range. You get premium feel, decent tech, and reliability isn’t bad. Plus resale is strong for these because EV adoption is still ramping.
BMW i4 (I think you meant i4 rather than i40, as the i40 isn’t an EV) is another contender. Really sharp drive, good interior, and BMW’s warranty package is decent. Might be slightly harder to find sub-40k miles at 2–3 years old, but worth keeping an eye on.
Tesla Model Y (new shape). I get your hesitation. The resale value is solid, the charging network unbeatable, and the software is next-level, but if your heart’s not in it, you’ll notice every day.
Other things to consider:
Polestar 2 – premium feel, solid range, lots of tech. Harder to find bargains but worth looking at 2–3 year old examples.
Jaguar I-Pace – sporty, fun, premium, but depreciation can be steeper, so you might pick up a good deal.
Mercedes EQB / EQC - EQC is older but a proper SUV feel, EQB is newer, smaller, more efficient.
A quick tip: focus on 2–3 year old cars with under 40k miles, like you said, and the battery warranty is your friend. That’s the point where EVs really start to feel like low-maintenance, reliable cars instead of a gamble.
For your mileage, premium brand, and cash-buy goal, the Q4 e-tron or BMW i4 are probably your best sweet spot. Polestar or EQ models are worth watching if you spot a bargain.
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