DB9.2 to Vantage V12 manual
Discussion
I have a low mileage 2016 DB9 Volante. We bought it for trips with the kids but they’re getting too tall to sit in the back comfortably so I’m thinking of moving it on but still keeping an Aston in the garage.
I’ve always fancied a V12 Vantage, anyone who has owned both the 6 speed manual and the 7 speed manual S?
More tempted by the 6 speed as it will fill a V12 hole, I didn’t have any issues with the DB9 interior. The passive dampers also appeal as it’s one less thing to go wrong.
Is the Vantage S worth the cost over a Vantage from a driving perspective?
I’ve always fancied a V12 Vantage, anyone who has owned both the 6 speed manual and the 7 speed manual S?
More tempted by the 6 speed as it will fill a V12 hole, I didn’t have any issues with the DB9 interior. The passive dampers also appeal as it’s one less thing to go wrong.
Is the Vantage S worth the cost over a Vantage from a driving perspective?
Babw
I ve owned a 2017 V12VS with paddles for 7 years - I think the perfect car for me, theatre, pace, poise refinement and just the right amount of tech. It s been driven about 9,000km a year including a tour of Tasmania, trip to Australian snowfields, boys weekends away and lots of country road driving - superb. I really can t fault it and just getting it refreshed for the next 7 years with paint touch ups and new PPF
Last week I picked up a low km 2013 V12 manual ( with a view to keeping it more as a potential investment but will still drive it) and drove it 1200 km back from Canberra to Brisbane including some of my favourite country roads ( including some dirt due to an accident blocking one road) so have experienced much of what it offers on highway, in traffic and on back roads.
The different generations are obvious in the refinement of the ride, the steering feel and the helpful bits of tech (reverse camera, CarPlay). Both are quick, both sound amazing over 3,000 revs, both handle well although the S is more poised, feels to have more direct steering, and the adaptive suspension is more supple and responsive to mid corner bumps (also the 2013 suspension can seem a bit harsh on rough roads):
You won t be disappointed by either car, they are both brilliant and having owned a 2022 F1 Vantage for 3 years (which is faster and better handling than the VH cars, although nowhere near as engaging to drive) they don t beguile you into believing you are a driving god, just let you push on knowing there are limits to your ability and the laws of physics need to be respected.
For me it comes down to how analogue you want the experience to be - the S will be more refined like your DB9.2, the early manual will be more basic in how it rides and handles - but still a stunning car
Hope that helps
Graze
I ve owned a 2017 V12VS with paddles for 7 years - I think the perfect car for me, theatre, pace, poise refinement and just the right amount of tech. It s been driven about 9,000km a year including a tour of Tasmania, trip to Australian snowfields, boys weekends away and lots of country road driving - superb. I really can t fault it and just getting it refreshed for the next 7 years with paint touch ups and new PPF
Last week I picked up a low km 2013 V12 manual ( with a view to keeping it more as a potential investment but will still drive it) and drove it 1200 km back from Canberra to Brisbane including some of my favourite country roads ( including some dirt due to an accident blocking one road) so have experienced much of what it offers on highway, in traffic and on back roads.
The different generations are obvious in the refinement of the ride, the steering feel and the helpful bits of tech (reverse camera, CarPlay). Both are quick, both sound amazing over 3,000 revs, both handle well although the S is more poised, feels to have more direct steering, and the adaptive suspension is more supple and responsive to mid corner bumps (also the 2013 suspension can seem a bit harsh on rough roads):
You won t be disappointed by either car, they are both brilliant and having owned a 2022 F1 Vantage for 3 years (which is faster and better handling than the VH cars, although nowhere near as engaging to drive) they don t beguile you into believing you are a driving god, just let you push on knowing there are limits to your ability and the laws of physics need to be respected.
For me it comes down to how analogue you want the experience to be - the S will be more refined like your DB9.2, the early manual will be more basic in how it rides and handles - but still a stunning car
Hope that helps
Graze
Edited by Graze01 on Sunday 5th April 01:02
Edited by Graze01 on Sunday 5th April 04:45
Thanks for the feedback, really useful.
I’m quite tempted to save the 50k+ and go for an early car.
My DB9 has been pretty reliable bar a seat adjustment module which stopped working however it took over 6 months for the part to become available.
There’s an absolutely beautiful Q spec AMR car for sale but above my budget for this car.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
I’m quite tempted to save the 50k+ and go for an early car.
My DB9 has been pretty reliable bar a seat adjustment module which stopped working however it took over 6 months for the part to become available.
There’s an absolutely beautiful Q spec AMR car for sale but above my budget for this car.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
Hopefully Adam will see this thread and respond as he had two six speed V12 Vantage before he bought his V12 Vantage S (aka Kermit). I’ve never driven an S version so can’t really comment on the later cars but the main differences as I’m sure you know are the increase in power from the V12, the three way adjustable dampers, the updated interior centre ski slope and of course the seven speed dog leg gearbox. I think the later cars also have Apple CarPlay / Android Auto as standard, although I may be wrong on that. I’ve had my six speed car for twelve years and have had no complaints at all. Apart from the extra weight over the nose compared to my previous V8V it is a much better car across all metrics. The early reviews criticised the firm fixed dampers but I’ve never found them to be a problem. The ride is definitely affected by tyre choice and it is noticeably better since I had Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres fitted. Good luck with your search. BRM.
Edited by Minglar on Sunday 5th April 11:44
Babw said:
There s an absolutely beautiful Q spec AMR car for sale but above my budget for this car.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
Yay, Amethyst Red! (though I didn't know it had a satin version).https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
Simpo Two said:
Babw said:
There s an absolutely beautiful Q spec AMR car for sale but above my budget for this car.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
Yay, Amethyst Red! (though I didn't know it had a satin version).https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
Minglar said:
Hopefully Adam will see this thread and respond as he had two six speed V12 Vantage before he bought his V12 Vantage S (aka Kermit). I ve never driven an S version so can t really comment on the later cars but the main differences as I m sure you know are the increase in power from the V12, the three way adjustable dampers, the updated interior centre ski slope and of course the seven speed dog leg gearbox. I think the later cars also have Apple CarPlay / Android Auto as standard, although I may be wrong on that. I ve had my six speed car for twelve years and have had no complaints at all. Apart from the extra weight over the nose compared to my previous V8V it is a much better car across all metrics. The early reviews criticised the firm fixed dampers but I ve never found them to be a problem. The ride is definitely affected by tyre choice and it is noticeably better since I had Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres fitted. Good luck with your search. BRM.
Good feedback, thank you. I m going to see a couple next week and get a feel for it. Will drive my DB9 there so I have a direct comparison. Edited by Minglar on Sunday 5th April 11:44
I ve got the adaptable dampening in my car but on a heavy Volante, I don t really see the point and would have been quite happy with passive dampers.
Having owned both, the ‘S’ is a significant step on. However the significant premium for a manual has held firm. There are only c. 90 manual S’s in the UK and 300 globally as they were only produced for 18 months.
The original manual will make for a fun weekend car and much more sporting than the DB9. You might expect for it to cost you nothing in terms of depreciation. It would be interesting to compare it so a sportshift S for similar money, if you aren’t wedded to the idea of getting a stick.
Interesting to see the Q Amethyst example back on the market. It’s certainly an ‘individual’ spec! It sat on the market for perhaps 2 years last time around!
The original manual will make for a fun weekend car and much more sporting than the DB9. You might expect for it to cost you nothing in terms of depreciation. It would be interesting to compare it so a sportshift S for similar money, if you aren’t wedded to the idea of getting a stick.
Interesting to see the Q Amethyst example back on the market. It’s certainly an ‘individual’ spec! It sat on the market for perhaps 2 years last time around!
M1AGM said:
Simpo Two said:
Babw said:
There s an absolutely beautiful Q spec AMR car for sale but above my budget for this car.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
Yay, Amethyst Red! (though I didn't know it had a satin version).https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202512108...
Sorry Im late to the party...
Yes I have owned 2x V12V and 1x V12VS...
The thing is with these cars that every single year represented a small step up, some years with tiny upgrades other years had half decent upgrades. The V12VS however was a significant step up in almost every way that mattered in terms of what made the V12V great. The V12V was better in almost every single way, more power, more noise, better traction, better handling, and once the revised waterfall was introduced a much better dash and infotainment which had both Apple Carplay and Andriod Auto too!
Theres a thread on here where many V12V owners first got to test drive a V12VS and fairly univerally everyone agreed the S was a just better in so many small ways that the end result really did add up to more than the sum of its parts.
The SSIII gearbox wasn't to everyone's taste compared to the old 6spd manual as some preferred the true manual experience, but it was in fact an exceptional gearbox in its own right. To combat the lack of a true manual, AM de-engineered the SSIII gearbox and made the 7spd manual which was the same gearbox but without the robot. Again it was mis-understood by many as the upside-down arrangement of the dogleg gate and close planes meant that it took a couple of days to master, so many journalists and people who only test drove it for a couple of hours couldn't get their head around it. For those people brave enough to buy one and drive it as their main car (so as not to have to swap between a conventional layout and the dogleg) it soon becomes 2nd nature and its an absolutely stunningly good fun gearbox. AM shift is a real party trick, utilisling the software from the SSIII to allow you to change gears without taking the foot off the throttle!
I think given the OP has had a late 2016 DB9.2 he would likely see quite a lot of downgrades going back to an earlier iteration car just to get a 6spd manual. The best option would be to buy the very last of these if hell bent on getting a 6speed, but going for either a later SSIII or best of all the 2017 7spd dogleg would be the ultimate.
As for the car listed above, its an absolute stunner. A well known car in the colourful V12V group and one of just a handful of cars which really stand out and superbly specified and unique. Id like to think my car is one of those special cars too, as is Nick's Cosmo SSII AMR V12VS. This car deserves a long term owner, to be kept by somebody who realises just how special it is and doesnt put it back up for sale again in a couple of years.
Yes I have owned 2x V12V and 1x V12VS...
The thing is with these cars that every single year represented a small step up, some years with tiny upgrades other years had half decent upgrades. The V12VS however was a significant step up in almost every way that mattered in terms of what made the V12V great. The V12V was better in almost every single way, more power, more noise, better traction, better handling, and once the revised waterfall was introduced a much better dash and infotainment which had both Apple Carplay and Andriod Auto too!
Theres a thread on here where many V12V owners first got to test drive a V12VS and fairly univerally everyone agreed the S was a just better in so many small ways that the end result really did add up to more than the sum of its parts.
The SSIII gearbox wasn't to everyone's taste compared to the old 6spd manual as some preferred the true manual experience, but it was in fact an exceptional gearbox in its own right. To combat the lack of a true manual, AM de-engineered the SSIII gearbox and made the 7spd manual which was the same gearbox but without the robot. Again it was mis-understood by many as the upside-down arrangement of the dogleg gate and close planes meant that it took a couple of days to master, so many journalists and people who only test drove it for a couple of hours couldn't get their head around it. For those people brave enough to buy one and drive it as their main car (so as not to have to swap between a conventional layout and the dogleg) it soon becomes 2nd nature and its an absolutely stunningly good fun gearbox. AM shift is a real party trick, utilisling the software from the SSIII to allow you to change gears without taking the foot off the throttle!
I think given the OP has had a late 2016 DB9.2 he would likely see quite a lot of downgrades going back to an earlier iteration car just to get a 6spd manual. The best option would be to buy the very last of these if hell bent on getting a 6speed, but going for either a later SSIII or best of all the 2017 7spd dogleg would be the ultimate.
As for the car listed above, its an absolute stunner. A well known car in the colourful V12V group and one of just a handful of cars which really stand out and superbly specified and unique. Id like to think my car is one of those special cars too, as is Nick's Cosmo SSII AMR V12VS. This car deserves a long term owner, to be kept by somebody who realises just how special it is and doesnt put it back up for sale again in a couple of years.
Viewed a V12V this morning. Same colour as my DB9, morning frost white, looked stunning.
One issue is the corroded disc bell bolts on the front discs. It’s a 15 year old car, the rear discs however look new so I’m wondering if they have been replaced. The car has full AM service history.
I’ve sent off some photos to my independent specialist, wondering if anyone here can advise?
One issue is the corroded disc bell bolts on the front discs. It’s a 15 year old car, the rear discs however look new so I’m wondering if they have been replaced. The car has full AM service history.
I’ve sent off some photos to my independent specialist, wondering if anyone here can advise?
I own a modified V12V, had it for 13 years. Alongside it I owned a 7spd roadster for 5/6 years which I bought new.
Corrosion on the bolts of the brakes are annoying, but not unusual and can't do much.
Check the underside, I just had Bamford Rose refresh everything on mine. Rear subframe powder coating and new fuel lines, brake lines etc.
Prefer the 6spd, and it's massively cheaper.
Corrosion on the bolts of the brakes are annoying, but not unusual and can't do much.
Check the underside, I just had Bamford Rose refresh everything on mine. Rear subframe powder coating and new fuel lines, brake lines etc.
Prefer the 6spd, and it's massively cheaper.
I’m a bit suspicious about the disc bolts, I know AM of this gen have catastrophic failure of the bell bolts due to corrosion (just like 458s).
For reference here are my DB9 bells. I have 17k miles on my car as well.
Let’s see what the specialist says, I distinctly remember them mentioning DBS and V12Vs have a number of failures.
For reference here are my DB9 bells. I have 17k miles on my car as well.
Let’s see what the specialist says, I distinctly remember them mentioning DBS and V12Vs have a number of failures.
Yeah, there’s a risk in any 16 year old Aston (or any car). If we all looked at worst case scenario we wouldn’t buy anything. The easy answer is go buy a new car under warranty then.
Tbh, look at Duke of London recently saying a V12V engine let go with no warning, and he paid £30k to replace for the customer.
Tbh, look at Duke of London recently saying a V12V engine let go with no warning, and he paid £30k to replace for the customer.
Upperworks said:
Yeah, there s a risk in any 16 year old Aston (or any car). If we all looked at worst case scenario we wouldn t buy anything. The easy answer is go buy a new car under warranty then.
Tbh, look at Duke of London recently saying a V12V engine let go with no warning, and he paid £30k to replace for the customer.
Never heard of Duke of London but I did take a look at their Facebook post. Mileage on the car seems to be a shade above 60,000 and a quick check on the MOT history would suggest it’s possibly not been the best looked after example, but nonetheless it is rather worrying. Having said that I’d be surprised if there were no other earlier signs at all of a problem rather than a complete one off bang, rendering it completely undriveable. Back to the OP, all I can suggest is any corrosion on the CCB bolts would make me walk away from any potential purchase, as a better example must be out there, although the earliest six speed cars are now approaching seventeen years old, and there will always be inherent risks with buying one. BRM. Tbh, look at Duke of London recently saying a V12V engine let go with no warning, and he paid £30k to replace for the customer.
The Duke car was my old car - it had been maintained perfectly (full AM service history and some Bamford Rose additions). It seemed to be an unusual issue - I suspect there were some external factors, potentially a mis-shift- but that s the luck of the draw. It wouldn t stop me from buying another one, although I would be checking the brakes and subframe / underside corrosion as part of any pre purchase inspection.
For what it s worth, the replacement (a 997 GT3) sprung a coolant leak within 3 hours of delivery to me
For the OP - I think it s a case of picking your poison - automatic or manual. The later (7-speed) cars have a much better suspension setup which significantly improves the ride, but the old (6-speed) cars have a much better gearbox and many of them come with the carbon sport seats which are more comfortable.
I went the opposite way as I needed rear seats, so sold my V12V and went to a 911.
For what it s worth, the replacement (a 997 GT3) sprung a coolant leak within 3 hours of delivery to me
For the OP - I think it s a case of picking your poison - automatic or manual. The later (7-speed) cars have a much better suspension setup which significantly improves the ride, but the old (6-speed) cars have a much better gearbox and many of them come with the carbon sport seats which are more comfortable.
I went the opposite way as I needed rear seats, so sold my V12V and went to a 911.
Edited by DBA086 on Thursday 9th April 20:57
Edited by DBA086 on Thursday 9th April 20:58
Edited by DBA086 on Thursday 9th April 21:08
DBA086 said:
The Duke car was my old car - it had been maintained perfectly (full AM service history and some Bamford Rose additions). It seemed to be an unusual issue - I suspect there were some external factors, potentially a mis-shift- but that s the luck of the draw. It wouldn t stop me from buying another one, although I would be checking the brakes and subframe / underside corrosion as part of any pre purchase inspection.
For what it s worth, the replacement (a 997 GT3) sprung a coolant leak within 3 hours of delivery to me
For the OP - I think it s a case of picking your poison - automatic or manual. The later (7-speed) cars have a much better suspension setup which significantly improves the ride, but the old (6-speed) cars have a much better gearbox and many of them come with the carbon sport seats which are more comfortable.
I went the opposite way as I needed rear seats, so sold my V12V and went to a 911.
Funnily enough one of the comments on the Facebook post said something along the lines of “Don’t change down to 3rd at 120 Mph” Mishandling like that may well cause a bang, with no obvious warning, but I don’t see why a dealer would feel obliged to pay for a new engine if that is what happened. Such a scenario is very different to any failure caused by primary cat ingestion. By the way, apologies for my comments re the MOT history. BRM. For what it s worth, the replacement (a 997 GT3) sprung a coolant leak within 3 hours of delivery to me
For the OP - I think it s a case of picking your poison - automatic or manual. The later (7-speed) cars have a much better suspension setup which significantly improves the ride, but the old (6-speed) cars have a much better gearbox and many of them come with the carbon sport seats which are more comfortable.
I went the opposite way as I needed rear seats, so sold my V12V and went to a 911.
Edited by DBA086 on Thursday 9th April 20:57
Edited by DBA086 on Thursday 9th April 20:58
Edited by DBA086 on Thursday 9th April 21:08
Minglar said:
Never heard of Duke of London but I did take a look at their Facebook post. Mileage on the car seems to be a shade above 60,000 and a quick check on the MOT history would suggest it s possibly not been the best looked after example, but nonetheless it is rather worrying. Having said that I d be surprised if there were no other earlier signs at all of a problem rather than a complete one off bang, rendering it completely undriveable. Back to the OP, all I can suggest is any corrosion on the CCB bolts would make me walk away from any potential purchase, as a better example must be out there, although the earliest six speed cars are now approaching seventeen years old, and there will always be inherent risks with buying one. BRM.
It did make me walk away however a phone call with my trusted indy (AM performance in Macclesfield) advised me the car needs to go on a ramp to check the inner side of the disc, they have seen cars with corroded outer bolt but healthy inner bolts and vice versa. I'll be instructing a more local specialist to carry out an inspection before I go further, as mentioned they're getting on now so worthy of an inspection, I feel.Babw said:
Viewed a V12V this morning. Same colour as my DB9, morning frost white, looked stunning.
One issue is the corroded disc bell bolts on the front discs. It s a 15 year old car, the rear discs however look new so I m wondering if they have been replaced. The car has full AM service history.
I ve sent off some photos to my independent specialist, wondering if anyone here can advise?
Someone has just had some success refurbishing the brakes with https://www.rebrake.de/ at a cost of €3700.One issue is the corroded disc bell bolts on the front discs. It s a 15 year old car, the rear discs however look new so I m wondering if they have been replaced. The car has full AM service history.
I ve sent off some photos to my independent specialist, wondering if anyone here can advise?
See the pic that was shared below of the refurbished item.
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