CVT Gearboxes?
Discussion
Having read the Honda Prelude thread, made me think abotu my prejudices towards CVT gearboxes, are they unfounded ?
I have limited experience of these, a mate bought an Escort in the early nineties that had one, dont think that was great, before that it was just small Volvos and Dafs. I dont think a 4 year old ish Lexus is comparable to a MK4 Escort or a Daf (New Fast Automatic Daffodils) or otherwise.
Went in a Lexus ES Hybrid Taxi the other day, seemed fine and that had one but they feel when you see a car advertised has one, like when I used to be looking in the old school Autotrader and I say spotted an appealing looking car at an attractive price, then realised it said "Auto" on the advert and immediately was revulsed and discounted it. Autos were not good, nobody really wanted one unless they had a disability, auto license or it was in a massive barge and there was usually no choice.
Obviously things have improved with modern autos so they dont use more fuel, go slower and have a completely random approach to choosing gears, but are CVTs actually any good now ? I suspect they are fine but its not an "enthusiasts choice", but then is a normal auto that much different ?
So, CVTs, yay or nay ?
I have limited experience of these, a mate bought an Escort in the early nineties that had one, dont think that was great, before that it was just small Volvos and Dafs. I dont think a 4 year old ish Lexus is comparable to a MK4 Escort or a Daf (New Fast Automatic Daffodils) or otherwise.
Went in a Lexus ES Hybrid Taxi the other day, seemed fine and that had one but they feel when you see a car advertised has one, like when I used to be looking in the old school Autotrader and I say spotted an appealing looking car at an attractive price, then realised it said "Auto" on the advert and immediately was revulsed and discounted it. Autos were not good, nobody really wanted one unless they had a disability, auto license or it was in a massive barge and there was usually no choice.
Obviously things have improved with modern autos so they dont use more fuel, go slower and have a completely random approach to choosing gears, but are CVTs actually any good now ? I suspect they are fine but its not an "enthusiasts choice", but then is a normal auto that much different ?
So, CVTs, yay or nay ?
For mere plodding around, they’re fine. Right tool for the job and all that. Especially the Toyota (e)CVT/hybrid system, which IMO is damn near perfect for an everyday ICE car.
If you’re looking at the type of car that offers a CVT in the range, then you’re probably not wanting the last word in driving excitement.
If you’re looking at the type of car that offers a CVT in the range, then you’re probably not wanting the last word in driving excitement.
My view is, similar to auto boxes of old, really, that they are best suited to people who don't want to go too quickly and are best paired to engines with decent low down torque, to avoid any embarrassing/undesired engine screaming just to get up a small hill.
Edited by SweptVolume on Monday 13th April 13:51
Agree with Jimbo.
If you want performance, nay.
Everyday driving, yay. I posted this in the Jazz car buying thread: "But now it is one of my favourite cars. The smaller size (compared to our Passat & M5) makes it perfect for visiting cities And the CVT is perfect - sluggish on take off, but you don't get that harsh pushing motion when braking compared to DSGs and traditional autos which makes your journey more comfortable for everyone."
If you want performance, nay.
Everyday driving, yay. I posted this in the Jazz car buying thread: "But now it is one of my favourite cars. The smaller size (compared to our Passat & M5) makes it perfect for visiting cities And the CVT is perfect - sluggish on take off, but you don't get that harsh pushing motion when braking compared to DSGs and traditional autos which makes your journey more comfortable for everyone."
J4CKO said:
are CVTs actually any good now ?
Yes, they can be. Nissan made a decent fist of it. Their system has a metal belt that "pushes" which is very different from early rubber belt systems which pulled. The latest systems are electronically controlled which amongst other things lets them be programmed to simulate conventional auto gearshifts. On a Nissan rental car in USA I didn't know it was CVT until I did some research.JATCO, which builds the CVTs, is 75% owned by Nissan, 15% owned by Mitsubishi Motors, and 10% owned by Suzuki. They've built CVTs for many car makers. I believe Honda and Toyota build their own.
There are many internet stories about unreliability. So far as I can tell this is often associated with neglected maintenance, particularly around fluid changes. Some people recommend a fluid change every 40,000 miles. It's sometimes said that once a CVT dies you might as well throw the car away. No doubt there are specialists who can sort them out less expensively than an official dealership - if you can get the car there.
Quhet said:
I was surprised recently to see that Audi offered a CVT on lower engined 'auto' A4s in the early to mid 2010s. They can't have been that bad, otherwise I'm sure I would've have heard a lot more about them
Well there are 30 pages of how s
te the Audi Multitronic (or Multitragic as it's also known) herehttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
They were fitted to fwd A4 and A6s - all the quattro's had the regular autos and were the ones to have. My 2.0 TFSI A4 had the multitragic box, I think the A3 with the same engine had the VW DSG box but can't be sure.
Even when it was working, the CVT was a terrible gearbox for a supposed exec car - fine for a city runabout but for something big and expensive it was poor - when accelerating, the car gained speed with the revs staying constant - very weird experience. Also the step off from standstill was dangerously laggy - my work around was to hold the car on the brakes with the left foot, gently load the driveline up with some throttle a fraction before you set off and then let go of the brakes. Now try teaching my wife to use that technique when pulling into a dual carriageway with 3 kids in the car....
Dapster said:
Quhet said:
I was surprised recently to see that Audi offered a CVT on lower engined 'auto' A4s in the early to mid 2010s. They can't have been that bad, otherwise I'm sure I would've have heard a lot more about them
Well there are 30 pages of how ste the Audi Multitronic (or Multitragic as it's also known) herehttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
They were fitted to fwd A4 and A6s - all the quattro's had the regular autos and were the ones to have. My 2.0 TFSI A4 had the multitragic box, I think the A3 with the same engine had the VW DSG box but can't be sure.
Even when it was working, the CVT was a terrible gearbox for a supposed exec car - fine for a city runabout but for something big and expensive it was poor - when accelerating, the car gained speed with the revs staying constant - very weird experience. Also the step off from standstill was dangerously laggy - my work around was to hold the car on the brakes with the left foot, gently load the driveline up with some throttle a fraction before you set off and then let go of the brakes. Now try teaching my wife to use that technique when pulling into a dual carriageway with 3 kids in the car....
That's me told then!Panamax said:
^^^ Clever stuff. No wonder Toyota has been successful with it. The software that runs it must be quite something.
I recall Andrew Frankell of The Intercooler saying Toyota started developing their hybrid system back in the 1960s. Regardless, it s an incredible piece of engineering: two electric motors, a power-split device, a battery, an ICE (itself devoid of belts), and all of it ultra-reliable, easy-to-drive, mass-produced and affordable. And that s before you get to the reported (peak, admittedly) thermal efficiency of c.46%. And yet many supposedly “premium” manufacturers can’t make a simple ICE-powered car that doesn’t crap itself in some horribly expensive manner.Hondas do not have a CVT nowadays. It is an e-HEV. 3 drive modes, all achieved without driver intervention.
1) electric motor drives wheels from the dedicated battery
2) as 1, but petrol Atkinson engine recharges the battery
3) at higher speed, a clutch engages and the engine drives the wheels (though a single ratio reduction gear, obviously)
1) electric motor drives wheels from the dedicated battery
2) as 1, but petrol Atkinson engine recharges the battery
3) at higher speed, a clutch engages and the engine drives the wheels (though a single ratio reduction gear, obviously)
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