When did young & middle aged guys lose all pride in driving?
Discussion
I used to drive a lot on motorways, more recently less so. However last weekend I drove pretty much the length of the country twice. Because it was the weekend it was reasonably quiet, but of course there were people unable to cope with basic driving concepts like keeping left unless overtaking - just stuck for mile after mile in the middle lane despite an empty lane one right next to them.
But there were two noticeable differences. One was simply that there were SO many more of them than they used to be. But the other is who they were.
I can't help a quick sidelong glance when I pass these people and, at the risk of sounding ageist or sexist (and I'm not, it's simply a matter of fact), in the past, 95% of them were either middle aged women staring grimly out of the windscreen, or pensioners - death grip on the wheel, look of mild terror on their faces - as they rocket along the middle lane at 62mph.
What amazed me this time were how many were men in their 30s and 40s! I'm not suggesting that this group don't have their faults. Perhaps sometimes too fast or too aggressive, but at least in the past they generally had some pride in their driving ability, even if it might have been misplaced. And at least they could cope with things like basic lane discipline.
Notable how many of them were driving deathly dull 'white goods' cars too, Nissan Qashqais and Vauxhall Crosslands etc.
What happened to these men?
But there were two noticeable differences. One was simply that there were SO many more of them than they used to be. But the other is who they were.
I can't help a quick sidelong glance when I pass these people and, at the risk of sounding ageist or sexist (and I'm not, it's simply a matter of fact), in the past, 95% of them were either middle aged women staring grimly out of the windscreen, or pensioners - death grip on the wheel, look of mild terror on their faces - as they rocket along the middle lane at 62mph.
What amazed me this time were how many were men in their 30s and 40s! I'm not suggesting that this group don't have their faults. Perhaps sometimes too fast or too aggressive, but at least in the past they generally had some pride in their driving ability, even if it might have been misplaced. And at least they could cope with things like basic lane discipline.
Notable how many of them were driving deathly dull 'white goods' cars too, Nissan Qashqais and Vauxhall Crosslands etc.
What happened to these men?
My last car was a lease Qashqi my current a new Dacia Duster. I ain t doing crazy speeds and moves on 30 or 70mph limits.
I also take a lot of pride in my driving.
Edit cars for me are to transport mountain bikes to some seriously good trails.
Motorbikes for me are for carve and flow
I also take a lot of pride in my driving.
Edit cars for me are to transport mountain bikes to some seriously good trails.
Motorbikes for me are for carve and flow
Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Wednesday 22 April 19:48
Can't say I've noticed that particularly but the general standard is only heading one way.
Things I notice most are the number of drivers that have clearly been driving on UK roads for a matter of months weeks or months at most and unrelated the amount of aggression on the roads but it's not limited to teenagers or men.
Things I notice most are the number of drivers that have clearly been driving on UK roads for a matter of months weeks or months at most and unrelated the amount of aggression on the roads but it's not limited to teenagers or men.
I think insurance costs means most young men cannot afford to insure "nice" cars, or just don't receive quotes. A work colleague is 28 with 5y NCB and was quoted 4k for a 370Z! (admittedly in London). That would explain the boring cars in the main.
West London is a different kettle of fish with the young Arab guys who can drive anything they like, but even they seem to default to G wagens or Defenders. Supercars much less common than they used to be but I see a few muscle cars (Dodge etc)
A friend lives in Limehouse (East London) and says every weekend some young guy has flipped a car (usually a performance model) on its roof under influence of balloons - I think the balloons are popular for two reasons - cultural factors (drinking not the done thing) and also untraceable. Often happens near Limehouse tunnel.
West London is a different kettle of fish with the young Arab guys who can drive anything they like, but even they seem to default to G wagens or Defenders. Supercars much less common than they used to be but I see a few muscle cars (Dodge etc)
A friend lives in Limehouse (East London) and says every weekend some young guy has flipped a car (usually a performance model) on its roof under influence of balloons - I think the balloons are popular for two reasons - cultural factors (drinking not the done thing) and also untraceable. Often happens near Limehouse tunnel.
Edited by hungry_hog on Wednesday 22 April 20:02
If you factor in things like, insurance costs / insurability, general running costs, the dire state of the majority of the roads, the amount of roadworks ( often nothing to do with repairing the roads ) the rise of smart / A.I. cameras, congestion / ULEZ zones, L.T.Rs, clampdowns on “the big five” by plod ( usually catching people driving at 24mph in a 20 zone etc, in reality). Added to apparent plays straight from Marx and Engels ‘finest’ work, by our wonderful Government regarding restriction of free movement etc. You start to see why people don’t give as much of a hoot about private vehicle ownership and driving ability now.
One thing that often gets overlooked in discussions about lane discipline on UK motorways is that a significant proportion of drivers on our roads didn’t learn to drive here. That’s not a criticism of them, but it does explain a lot of the behaviour people complain about.
If you learned to drive in the UK, the “keep left unless overtaking” rule is drilled into you from the start. It’s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They’re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they’re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn’t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn’t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
If you learned to drive in the UK, the “keep left unless overtaking” rule is drilled into you from the start. It’s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They’re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they’re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn’t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn’t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
Ari said:
I used to drive a lot on motorways, more recently less so. However last weekend I drove pretty much the length of the country twice. Because it was the weekend it was reasonably quiet, but of course there were people unable to cope with basic driving concepts like keeping left unless overtaking - just stuck for mile after mile in the middle lane despite an empty lane one right next to them.
But there were two noticeable differences. One was simply that there were SO many more of them than they used to be. But the other is who they were.
I can't help a quick sidelong glance when I pass these people and, at the risk of sounding ageist or sexist (and I'm not, it's simply a matter of fact), in the past, 95% of them were either middle aged women staring grimly out of the windscreen, or pensioners - death grip on the wheel, look of mild terror on their faces - as they rocket along the middle lane at 62mph.
What amazed me this time were how many were men in their 30s and 40s! I'm not suggesting that this group don't have their faults. Perhaps sometimes too fast or too aggressive, but at least in the past they generally had some pride in their driving ability, even if it might have been misplaced. And at least they could cope with things like basic lane discipline.
Notable how many of them were driving deathly dull 'white goods' cars too, Nissan Qashqais and Vauxhall Crosslands etc.
What happened to these men?
They got taught, sorry brainwashed, that cars are bad and speed kills from primary school age - by a cohort of almost entirely female, risk-averse, hand wringing primary school teachers. But there were two noticeable differences. One was simply that there were SO many more of them than they used to be. But the other is who they were.
I can't help a quick sidelong glance when I pass these people and, at the risk of sounding ageist or sexist (and I'm not, it's simply a matter of fact), in the past, 95% of them were either middle aged women staring grimly out of the windscreen, or pensioners - death grip on the wheel, look of mild terror on their faces - as they rocket along the middle lane at 62mph.
What amazed me this time were how many were men in their 30s and 40s! I'm not suggesting that this group don't have their faults. Perhaps sometimes too fast or too aggressive, but at least in the past they generally had some pride in their driving ability, even if it might have been misplaced. And at least they could cope with things like basic lane discipline.
Notable how many of them were driving deathly dull 'white goods' cars too, Nissan Qashqais and Vauxhall Crosslands etc.
What happened to these men?
From recent experience with my kids at primary school, they’ve moved on to vegetarianism and the general evils of cars, especially non electric cars.
Notably very small kids love my Chevy pickup and my motorbike. But by the middle of primary school they’re largely dismissive or scornful.
And I can tell this as I live over the road from the primary and my truck is parked on the street. Hardly anyone could give a s
t, which is a far cry from when I was a nipper and heard a v8 engine. And that was usually in a Rover. FNG said:
They got taught, sorry brainwashed, that cars are bad and speed kills from primary school age - by a cohort of almost entirely female, risk-averse, hand wringing primary school teachers.
From recent experience with my kids at primary school, they ve moved on to vegetarianism and the general evils of cars, especially non electric cars.
From recent experience with my kids at primary school, they ve moved on to vegetarianism and the general evils of cars, especially non electric cars.
Tarby said:
One thing that often gets overlooked in discussions about lane discipline on UK motorways is that a significant proportion of drivers on our roads didn t learn to drive here. That s not a criticism of them, but it does explain a lot of the behaviour people complain about.
If you learned to drive in the UK, the keep left unless overtaking rule is drilled into you from the start. It s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
I'm sure some sort of AI enabled cameras would be able to identify and fine middle lane hoggers. After a few fines and points on their license it would probably start to sink inIf you learned to drive in the UK, the keep left unless overtaking rule is drilled into you from the start. It s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
Randy Winkman said:
As a keen walker in Kent, the number of used nitrous canisters chucked in hedgerows is shocking. Not just as litter but the thought that even 10% of the gas is being consumed by the drivers of the cars is horrifying.
Its the same around East London and South Essex, a lot more than 10% is consumed by drivers. A big issue near me is bus drivers finishing the late shift, I kid you not.
Tarby said:
One thing that often gets overlooked in discussions about lane discipline on UK motorways is that a significant proportion of drivers on our roads didn t learn to drive here. That s not a criticism of them, but it does explain a lot of the behaviour people complain about.
If you learned to drive in the UK, the keep left unless overtaking rule is drilled into you from the start. It s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
Maybe it’s a recent thing but I learned to drive and passed my test without doing any multi lane driving in south London in the early 90s.If you learned to drive in the UK, the keep left unless overtaking rule is drilled into you from the start. It s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
Tarby said:
One thing that often gets overlooked in discussions about lane discipline on UK motorways is that a significant proportion of drivers on our roads didn t learn to drive here. That s not a criticism of them, but it does explain a lot of the behaviour people complain about.
If you learned to drive in the UK, the keep left unless overtaking rule is drilled into you from the start. It s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
But I thought people coming to live here only got a year before they had to take a UK test?If you learned to drive in the UK, the keep left unless overtaking rule is drilled into you from the start. It s part of the driving test, part of the theory test, and repeated constantly in the Highway Code. Middle-lane hogging is widely understood to be poor driving.
But in many other countries the rules and driving culture are quite different. In parts of Europe and North America, lane discipline is often much looser. Drivers commonly sit in whichever lane feels comfortable and move over only when necessary. In some places the inside lane is treated more like a slow lane for trucks and joining traffic, so drivers naturally gravitate to the middle lane and stay there.
If someone learned to drive in that environment, then comes to the UK, they may technically know the rule but their ingrained habits are completely different. Muscle memory takes over. They re not necessarily trying to be awkward, they re simply driving in the way that was normal where they learned.
Add to that the fact that motorway driving isn t even part of the practical test in the UK, and you have a situation where plenty of drivers on the road have never really been properly taught lane discipline in the first place.
The result is what we see every day: cars sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway, forcing others to weave around them.
This is one of those areas where relying purely on written rules clearly isn t enough. If we want better lane discipline, it probably needs a combination of clearer signage, more enforcement, and perhaps more emphasis during driver training about how UK motorway driving actually works.
https://www.google.com/search?q=suzi+quatro+drivin...
In most of Europe lane discipline is far better than in the UK, where drivers don't seem to have taken any notice of the keep left teaching.
The is totally different as they are allowed to pass on either side - if only that applied in the UK!
Maybe some of the MLMs can't read the "Keep Left Unless Overtaking" signs?
I was driving on the M25 yesterday and I came across so many middle aged men in a shirt and tie who were driving in the right most lane at 60-65mph for miles, completely oblivious to the world around them.
It’s like moving left from that lane has become a sign of “weakness” or something.
Either that or many really need a refresher on “how to drive”
It’s like moving left from that lane has become a sign of “weakness” or something.
Either that or many really need a refresher on “how to drive”
With the often omni present speed cameras in the UK and quite low speed limits, it’s not like there is much of a speed difference, is there? If everyone trundles along at more or less the same speed then I’m sure it’s easy to get into a groove where lane discipline doesn’t really matter that much.
Crudeoink said:
I'm sure some sort of AI enabled cameras would be able to identify and fine middle lane hoggers. After a few fines and points on their license it would probably start to sink in
AI traffic cameras are being trialed at the moment, but it's a case of be careful what you wish for. Won't be long after they get introduced that everyone starts screaming about a police state etc.They don't discriminate, so have no idea whether they're catching genuinely rubbish drivers or people who think they're great drivers and therefore never deserve to get caught.
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