Phone use at McDonalds etc
Discussion
I know this has probably done to death before on here but as yet I've not seen a post about it. What is the definitive answer, I've just watched a faceache video where a copper just stated that you can only use your phone for contactless payments and nothing else.
He stated that if it is open to the public then it becomes a road so the RTA applies. Is that true though, I understand that you need things like insurance in private places like McDonalds and supermarket car parks etc because the law that states "roads and other private places" in that instance. But things like MOT only apply to "roads" so you dont need an MOT sat in Asda (I hope I've got the MOT rule right but you get the jist, some laws only apply to "roads")
So do phone laws apply to roads only or roads and other places? and if its only roads are they really classing the drive through as a road, what about the "roads" in supermarket car parks. I thought the definition of a road was something paid for by the state.
He stated that if it is open to the public then it becomes a road so the RTA applies. Is that true though, I understand that you need things like insurance in private places like McDonalds and supermarket car parks etc because the law that states "roads and other private places" in that instance. But things like MOT only apply to "roads" so you dont need an MOT sat in Asda (I hope I've got the MOT rule right but you get the jist, some laws only apply to "roads")
So do phone laws apply to roads only or roads and other places? and if its only roads are they really classing the drive through as a road, what about the "roads" in supermarket car parks. I thought the definition of a road was something paid for by the state.
If a place is accessible from a public road, all laws relating to the use of the road apply. Hence why people sometimes get caught out thinking they can let friends and relatives without licences have a go at driving.
The exceptions to phone use are making an emergency call, making a contactless payment, using the phone whilst safely parked or using it to park a vehicle by remote control.
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...
The exceptions to phone use are making an emergency call, making a contactless payment, using the phone whilst safely parked or using it to park a vehicle by remote control.
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...
Frane Selak said:
I know this has probably done to death before on here but as yet I've not seen a post about it. What is the definitive answer, I've just watched a faceache video where a copper just stated that you can only use your phone for contactless payments and nothing else.
Before concluding you were insane I finally computed that you meant 'Drive-through McDonalds' not the restaurant...Frane Selak said:
So do phone laws apply to roads only or roads and other places? and if its only roads are they really classing the drive through as a road, what about the "roads" in supermarket car parks. I thought the definition of a road was something paid for by the state.
No it isn't. The word "road" has it's ordinary meaning - a long, narrow piece of land that people drive on.A car park is not a road but it will often contain roads (eg the marked out parts between the spaces, and the long narrow strip that you use to go through the drive through).
Mobile phone use, like driving without an MOT etc, is illegal on any road which is used by the general public, which would include the roads in an Asda or McDonald's car park. From that point of view the only difference between the provisions of the RTA which apply on a "road", and those that apply on a "road or other public place" is that the latter applies to the whole car park, including the parking spaces.
When you say paid for by the state, you might be thinking of the requirement for your car to be taxed, which is governed by separate legislation and applies on any road which is maintainable at public expense. You can drive your untaxed car around a McDonald's car park to your heart's content.
Edited by Aretnap on Thursday 30th April 05:50
I got a good telling off by an off duty plod in a DIY store carpark shortly after the mobile phone ban was introduced. He said it made no difference that I was in a private carpark as it was open to the public. I think it's actually probably more dangerous to use a phone whilst manoeuvring in a carpark - kids, old people, Muppets who can't indicate or park properly....
I've done some digging and this is what I mean.
RTA 88 due care and attention law
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
That says "road or other public space"
RTA 88 insurance
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/...
That originally just said road but "other public space" was added to the legislation in 2000 from what I can make out.
The there is the phone CU laws
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regu...
That quite clearly just says Road and not other public spaces so it obviously means just roads, but the question is what is a road? I found this article written by a solicitor so not gospel and it seems to rely on various court case definitions.
https://thedrivingsolicitor.co.uk/2019/03/11/road-...
So just because a road looks like a road it doesn't make it so and from what I can make out if the service "road" where you stop and get your food is classed as a road then phones aren't allowed but you could do donuts in the car park whilst on the phone but only get done for due care and attention because a car park isn't a road although it is a public space.
RTA 88 due care and attention law
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
That says "road or other public space"
RTA 88 insurance
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/...
That originally just said road but "other public space" was added to the legislation in 2000 from what I can make out.
The there is the phone CU laws
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regu...
That quite clearly just says Road and not other public spaces so it obviously means just roads, but the question is what is a road? I found this article written by a solicitor so not gospel and it seems to rely on various court case definitions.
https://thedrivingsolicitor.co.uk/2019/03/11/road-...
So just because a road looks like a road it doesn't make it so and from what I can make out if the service "road" where you stop and get your food is classed as a road then phones aren't allowed but you could do donuts in the car park whilst on the phone but only get done for due care and attention because a car park isn't a road although it is a public space.
Frane Selak said:
I know this has probably done to death before on here but as yet I've not seen a post about it. What is the definitive answer, I've just watched a faceache video where a copper just stated that you can only use your phone for contactless payments and nothing else.
You're unlikely to ever get a definitive answer to this question on an internet forum. You'll have to go speak to the police to get one, and even then you'll have people saying that it's not correct.MontyPythonX said:
You're unlikely to ever get a definitive answer to this question on an internet forum. You'll have to go speak to the police to get one, and even then you'll have people saying that it's not correct.
But surely you actually need to ask someone who actually knows the law?Aretnap said:
No it isn't. The word "road" has it's ordinary meaning - a long, narrow piece of land that people drive on.
I'm not sure that's totally accurate. A right of way on foot over land is normally a road. A bridleway the same. The footpath/way at the side of a road is normally part of the road, although care needs to be exercised. The definition of a footway is that part of the road put by for passengers on foot.It is dangerous to be definitive as to whether a car park is a road. It is a fact to be proved in court and there has been many an argument that has gone to appeal about it and decisions often appear contradictory. In my experience, whether a car park is a road or not is down to whether the defence or prosecution attends court better prepared. This goes for most facts to be proved. One thing I've noticed is that the CPS seem reluctant to challenge the borders and this has led to creep against them.
Blakewater said:
If a place is accessible from a public road, all laws relating to the use of the road apply.
They don't - some apply solely to a road, and some apply to a road or other public place.And whilst a freely & publicly accessible car park may be regarded as 'other public place', it does not automatically follow that it would be considered a 'road'.
Edited by SS2. on Thursday 30th April 15:46
Frane Selak said:
I know this has probably done to death before on here but as yet I've not seen a post about it. What is the definitive answer, I've just watched a faceache video where a copper just stated that you can only use your phone for contactless payments and nothing else.
He stated that if it is open to the public then it becomes a road so the RTA applies. Is that true though, I understand that you need things like insurance in private places like McDonalds and supermarket car parks etc because the law that states "roads and other private places" in that instance. But things like MOT only apply to "roads" so you dont need an MOT sat in Asda (I hope I've got the MOT rule right but you get the jist, some laws only apply to "roads")
So do phone laws apply to roads only or roads and other places? and if its only roads are they really classing the drive through as a road, what about the "roads" in supermarket car parks. I thought the definition of a road was something paid for by the state.
McDonalds and supermarkets are not private places.He stated that if it is open to the public then it becomes a road so the RTA applies. Is that true though, I understand that you need things like insurance in private places like McDonalds and supermarket car parks etc because the law that states "roads and other private places" in that instance. But things like MOT only apply to "roads" so you dont need an MOT sat in Asda (I hope I've got the MOT rule right but you get the jist, some laws only apply to "roads")
So do phone laws apply to roads only or roads and other places? and if its only roads are they really classing the drive through as a road, what about the "roads" in supermarket car parks. I thought the definition of a road was something paid for by the state.
vaud said:
MontyPythonX said:
You're unlikely to ever get a definitive answer to this question on an internet forum. You'll have to go speak to the police to get one, and even then you'll have people saying that it's not correct.
The police will not give you indemnified advice on the law?E-bmw said:
UK_Scat_Pack said:
It baffles me why McDonalds now encourage drivers to order via their mobile phone whilst driving!
Can you show us some evidence of Mc Donalds encouraging drivers to order via their mobile phone whilst driving please, as I would like to see it?Its normally done at home, when parked, or by a passenger.
vaud said:
E-bmw said:
UK_Scat_Pack said:
It baffles me why McDonalds now encourage drivers to order via their mobile phone whilst driving!
Can you show us some evidence of Mc Donalds encouraging drivers to order via their mobile phone whilst driving please, as I would like to see it?Its normally done at home, when parked, or by a passenger.
quigonjay said:
Blakewater said:
using the phone whilst safely parked or using it to park a vehicle by remote control
Surely if you are using your phone to park by remote control you are not in the vehicle?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff