Pulling a car straight on a jig

[2Btoo]

Chaps,

I have a 944, which had a fairly big off on a trackday recently. The good news is that the doors both open and close fine and the windscreen isn't cracked. Most of the damage is bolt-on bolt-off stuff, but it's increasingly clear as I strip the car down that the front chassis legs are out of alignment and there's a kink in the bodywork just in front of the windscreen on the passenger side. Here's a couple of photos. (The first one is taken with a wide-angle lens and hence exaggerates the effect).





I'm delving into things I have no experience of here but I understand that this can be straightened out by putting the car on a realignment jig, and car-o-line is a brand that comes up frequently. My question is how do I do this? I presume I find somewhere who has such a jig and take the car to them and they align it and I then collect it. How much does this typically cost, and can anyone recommend somewhere which would do this in the Gloucestershire area?

I am aware that there is discussion to be had about whether this is a financially worthwhile repair. I have no doubt that at commercial labour rates the car is a write-off, but DIY labour will bring the cost down significantly and I'd like to keep the car on the road if possible.


Thanks.

[Simpo Two]

I can't assist but found this bit quite amusing

2Btoo said:

it's increasingly clear as I strip the car down that... there's a kink in the bodywork

[steveo3002]

its one of those how long is a piece of string questions

porsche approved bodyshop ££££

geezer under the arches that knows his stuff and a tape measure more affordable

[paddy1970]

First, book a “measure and report” first, not a full repair commitment. Specifically ask them to check the front chassis legs, strut towers, crossmember/rack mounts, suspension pick-up points, bulkhead/scuttle and door apertures. Also ask them what they want left fitted. Often they want the car as a rolling shell, with suspension/crossmember in place, but front panels, bumper, rad pack and damaged bolt-on parts removed.

A basic measure/report may be a few hundred pounds, depending on the shop. A prepared shell that needs a relatively simple pull might land somewhere around £500–£1,500 for jig work only. If it needs cutting, welding, panel replacement or a full commercial repair, the sky is the limit...

[TwinKam]

Footwork. I recommend you start asking around the independent bodyshops in your area, you need crash repair type places rather than 'just' refinishers. You may get a few 'nos', but you only need one 'yes', or indeed a referral to a place they know of.
It's been a few years since I last needed this facility myself, but I remember I was fitted in without drama on a Saturday morning for £100 cash. But then I did know them, and it was a while ago!
The more stripped out it is the better, bear in mind it will be clamped on the sill seams, but try to keep it driveable if only to get it into their shop and onto the dozer bed easily. That's detail that you can discuss once you find a place that can do it.

Edited by TwinKam on Thursday 30th April 13:50

[Megaflow]

When you say 'just in front of the windscreen' how far in front are we talking and in what panel(s)?

[2Btoo]

Chaps,

Thanks for the replies.

At the moment I'm asking questions and making plans. The car was damaged but hasn't been stripped so I can't see the full extent of the damage, although it's clear that both front chassis legs are pushed sideways by 15cm or so. The passenger side wheel arch is out of shape and I think that the shock tower on that side has moved. I will know more when I have stripped off all the damaged panels, which will be next week. However I can see that the damage is more than just replacement of panels.

It's not driveable at the moment and I need to think about how to move it around. However if it is to be jigged then it will be delivered to the jigging company in a fully stripped down state; once jigged I'll take it back and build it back up in my own garage.

steveo3002 said:

its one of those how long is a piece of string questions

porsche approved bodyshop ££££

geezer under the arches that knows his stuff and a tape measure more affordable

Absolutely, and I'm looking for the latter. All recommendations welcome!

paddy1970 said:

First, book a measure and report first, not a full repair commitment. Specifically ask them to check the front chassis legs, strut towers, crossmember/rack mounts, suspension pick-up points, bulkhead/scuttle and door apertures. Also ask them what they want left fitted. Often they want the car as a rolling shell, with suspension/crossmember in place, but front panels, bumper, rad pack and damaged bolt-on parts removed.

A basic measure/report may be a few hundred pounds, depending on the shop. A prepared shell that needs a relatively simple pull might land somewhere around £500 £1,500 for jig work only. If it needs cutting, welding, panel replacement or a full commercial repair, the sky is the limit...

Measure and report is a good idea, however I'll be hampered by the fact that this will require a second visit to the pulling place and I don't currently have facilities to move a damaged car (it would tow on a trailer dolly but I don't have one of those, nor do I have a car to two it with!) However I think that the first step is finding someone to do it and starting the conversation with them.

TwinKam said:

Footwork. I recommend you start asking around the independent bodyshops in your area, you need crash repair type places rather than 'just' refinishers. You may get a few 'nos', but you only need one 'yes', or indeed a referral to a place they know of.
It's been a few years since I last needed this facility myself, but I remember I was fitted in without drama on a Saturday morning for £100 cash. But then I did know them, and it was a while ago!
The more stripped out it is the better, bear in mind it will be clamped on the sill seams, but try to keep it driveable if only to get it into their shop and onto the dozer bed easily. That's detail that you can discuss once you find a place that can do it.

Thanks. That's very sound advice. I'd be quite happy to consider a cash-in-hand-on-a-Saturday arrangement. I jusrt need to find the person to do it.

Megaflow said:

When you say 'just in front of the windscreen' how far in front are we talking and in what panel(s)?

I don't yet know. Chassis legs, and the kink in the first photo (which is just in front of the windscreen.) I have measured the distances between the wheel centres and there is a 6mm difference between the two sides of the car, which is commensurate wiht the front end damage. I will know more when it's fully stripped next week.

[Crafty_]

2Btoo said:

Measure and report is a good idea, however I'll be hampered by the fact that this will require a second visit to the pulling place and I don't currently have facilities to move a damaged car (it would tow on a trailer dolly but I don't have one of those, nor do I have a car to two it with!) However I think that the first step is finding someone to do it and starting the conversation with them.

Realistically though, if you've spent out a few hundred quid on a report what would you do ? take it away and go somewhere else for a second opniion ?
I think a report is probably worthwhile to assess viability of pulling it straight and what is required, but could the repairer not keep it for you until repairs commence ?
If the report is very bad news, bin the shell and look for another...

Expensive route : find a company that preps race car shells, take it to them and have it straightened and a cage put in it - if you were unfortunate enough to have another incident I'm thinking a braced shell is less likely to incur serious damage (as its all tied together and stronger. Then you'd get back a nice straight shell to rebuild in the knowledge its straight and you won't have to revisit the current dilemma, albeit for quite some investment I would suspect.

[Megaflow]

2Btoo said:

Megaflow said:

When you say 'just in front of the windscreen' how far in front are we talking and in what panel(s)?

I don't yet know. Chassis legs, and the kink in the first photo (which is just in front of the windscreen.) I have measured the distances between the wheel centres and there is a 6mm difference between the two sides of the car, which is commensurate wiht the front end damage. I will know more when it's fully stripped next week.

Could you put a circle on the first picture where the detail in the second picture is taken?

Given how far over the chassis legs are, the damage to the top of the NSF strut tower, and we now know the damage extends to front axle centre line, I would expect any body shop would want the car stripped back to the bulkhead, and possibly even taking the dashboard out before they start pulling.

At which point I fear that this shell has seen the end of the road, or track perhaps.

[2Btoo]

Thanks Megaflow. Here's a photo which may give the position of the kink more clearly. You can see it by the 5cm/2inch mark on the silver ruler.

That sounds like a gloomy analysis but you know more about this sort of thing than I do. Given the re-shaping of the passenger side wheel arch then I can understand the change in the axle line; the shorter side is on the passenger side of the car.

I'll know more when it's stripped next week.

[CSR Performance]

Been a long time since I worked in a bodyshop but the position of that kink suggests there is going to be further issues once you get it stripped.

A re-shell might be a better option in the long run.

[Megaflow]

CSR Performance said:

Been a long time since I worked in a bodyshop but the position of that kink suggests there is going to be further issues once you get it stripped.

A re-shell might be a better option in the long run.

Yes, it is also odd that the kink suggests the chassis behind the strut towers has moved in the opposite direction to that in front of the towers, a kink is normally on the inside edge of the arc of damage, if that makes any sense... For example, the will be a similar kink, or a few of them, on the inside face of the OS chassis leg.

Regardless, the engine needs to come out to either see the full extent of the damage or to reshell it, so the first place to start is to pull the engine and find the full extent of the damage.

[Hawkshaw]

If the chassis rails have moved 15cm to one side, plus what can be seen in the photos, that is going to need a bit more than a gentle pull to get it straight.

A decent body repairer will come and visit you for an initial look and give you an estimate or just an opinion. Even if you have to pay for his time, that will be cheaper than trucking the car to him, only to find that it is uneconomic.

[LarJammer]

944 front chassis legs often kink in a crash (been there, done that) but having damage behind the strut tops is a whole different thing. I'd be very surprised if its even worth repairing & would imagine the bulkhead is also distorted.

[E-bmw]

LarJammer said:

944 front chassis legs often kink in a crash (been there, done that) but having damage behind the strut tops is a whole different thing. I'd be very surprised if its even worth repairing & would imagine the bulkhead is also distorted.

^^^^ Wot 'e said.

I fear this will turn out to be pretty accurate, I have had a couple of cars "straightened" before but would not even consider straightening a car that has damage within the rectangle described by the strut-tops fornt/to rear, mine were only outboard of these points.

One was one front out-rider for the front sub-frame and one was the rear floorpan of the boot/rear wings.

[Megaflow]

LarJammer said:

944 front chassis legs often kink in a crash (been there, done that) but having damage behind the strut tops is a whole different thing. I'd be very surprised if its even worth repairing & would imagine the bulkhead is also distorted.

I keep thinking about why it has kinked there in the direction it has, an I may have a theory...

We know the wheelbase is shorter on the NS by 6mm, which suggests the subframe as been pushed back, that would mean there is extra metal in that place that has to go somewhere, and I suspect in shortening the wheelbase on that side the rear subframe points have moved inwards towards the engine which has pulled that part of the chassis inwards too and that's what has caused the kink in seemingly the wrong direction to the bulk of the damage.

If that is the case, then I too strongly suspect the bulkhead will be distorted as well.

[P2KKA]

Its not going to hurt too strip it down and take more measurements.