EV cross-pavement charging rollout not straightforward
Discussion
Interesting read...
Will there be friction? Probably. People already get territorial about parking without chargers involved.
But the bigger point is that EV ownership can’t stay driveway-only. Between on-street charging, cross-pavement setups, council installs and destination charging through networks like BP, Tesla, Electroverse, InstaVolt evyve etc. the whole system is slowly becoming more flexible, which can only be a good thing for EV adoption.
The bigger issue is surely the planning permission and pushback from local residents if the charing points installed don't naturally fit with the local architecture and scenery.
Will there be friction? Probably. People already get territorial about parking without chargers involved.
But the bigger point is that EV ownership can’t stay driveway-only. Between on-street charging, cross-pavement setups, council installs and destination charging through networks like BP, Tesla, Electroverse, InstaVolt evyve etc. the whole system is slowly becoming more flexible, which can only be a good thing for EV adoption.
The bigger issue is surely the planning permission and pushback from local residents if the charing points installed don't naturally fit with the local architecture and scenery.
Of course it isn't straight forward. Anyone who lives in terrace housing with no front garden or anyone with half a brain knows it's not.
1. Who would be at fault is someone were to injure themself on these cables?
2. Who would be paying for these pavement chargers/cables?
3. Who would maintain them?
4. Who would manage them? As anyone can park on the road as long as they are parked legally and their vehicle is road legal?
5. Parking wars would happen.
That's just 5 things off top of my head.
What needs to happen is building the charging stations and not then ripping people off. Charging stations will work as long as they are fast and people are willing to dedicate 15 minutes of their time to charge up. Those who a fortunate enough to have their own private charger and well, fortunate. Just one of those things. Of course in the future those people will not be able to charge up at the same rate as these super duper high speed chargers, but that will be the trade off of having your own personal.
1. Who would be at fault is someone were to injure themself on these cables?
2. Who would be paying for these pavement chargers/cables?
3. Who would maintain them?
4. Who would manage them? As anyone can park on the road as long as they are parked legally and their vehicle is road legal?
5. Parking wars would happen.
That's just 5 things off top of my head.
What needs to happen is building the charging stations and not then ripping people off. Charging stations will work as long as they are fast and people are willing to dedicate 15 minutes of their time to charge up. Those who a fortunate enough to have their own private charger and well, fortunate. Just one of those things. Of course in the future those people will not be able to charge up at the same rate as these super duper high speed chargers, but that will be the trade off of having your own personal.
CactusJackEV said:
Interesting read...
Will there be friction? Probably. People already get territorial about parking without chargers involved.
But the bigger point is that EV ownership can t stay driveway-only. Between on-street charging, cross-pavement setups, council installs and destination charging through networks like BP, Tesla, Electroverse, InstaVolt evyve etc. the whole system is slowly becoming more flexible, which can only be a good thing for EV adoption.
The bigger issue is surely the planning permission and pushback from local residents if the charing points installed don't naturally fit with the local architecture and scenery.
You are referring to this?Will there be friction? Probably. People already get territorial about parking without chargers involved.
But the bigger point is that EV ownership can t stay driveway-only. Between on-street charging, cross-pavement setups, council installs and destination charging through networks like BP, Tesla, Electroverse, InstaVolt evyve etc. the whole system is slowly becoming more flexible, which can only be a good thing for EV adoption.
The bigger issue is surely the planning permission and pushback from local residents if the charing points installed don't naturally fit with the local architecture and scenery.
"Ministers plan to introduce legislation this summer to allow drivers to install pavement ‘gully’ systems for EV charging without needing full planning permission. For fleets, this could offer a solution for employees who take vehicles home but lack access to private charging.
The Office for Zero Emission Vehicles (OZEV) has allocated £25 million in grants, with around 80% of upper-tier local authorities in England receiving funding.
However, Greg Marsden, a professor of transport governance at the University of Leeds, says many of the councils that he has spoken to are still working through how cross-pavement charging would be delivered in practice and what the wider implications might be."
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ev-cross-pavement...
Ankh87 said:
Of course it isn't straight forward. Anyone who lives in terrace housing with no front garden or anyone with half a brain knows it's not.
1. Who would be at fault is someone were to injure themself on these cables?
2. Who would be paying for these pavement chargers/cables?
3. Who would maintain them?
4. Who would manage them? As anyone can park on the road as long as they are parked legally and their vehicle is road legal?
5. Parking wars would happen.
That's just 5 things off top of my head.
What needs to happen is building the charging stations and not then ripping people off. Charging stations will work as long as they are fast and people are willing to dedicate 15 minutes of their time to charge up. Those who a fortunate enough to have their own private charger and well, fortunate. Just one of those things. Of course in the future those people will not be able to charge up at the same rate as these super duper high speed chargers, but that will be the trade off of having your own personal.
All the above.1. Who would be at fault is someone were to injure themself on these cables?
2. Who would be paying for these pavement chargers/cables?
3. Who would maintain them?
4. Who would manage them? As anyone can park on the road as long as they are parked legally and their vehicle is road legal?
5. Parking wars would happen.
That's just 5 things off top of my head.
What needs to happen is building the charging stations and not then ripping people off. Charging stations will work as long as they are fast and people are willing to dedicate 15 minutes of their time to charge up. Those who a fortunate enough to have their own private charger and well, fortunate. Just one of those things. Of course in the future those people will not be able to charge up at the same rate as these super duper high speed chargers, but that will be the trade off of having your own personal.
It seems the whole EV charging thing needs a Rory Sutherland type approach. Rather than obsess about everyone charging at home, just ( just ) lower the costs (VAT? Duty? Blatant profiteering?) of public charging, make it more accessible, and have a rethink of how car parking is offered and charged (pardon the pun): allow, say, 20mins free high street parking provided you are charging, makes people almost forget about lost time charging whilst the dive into the shops for a loaf of bread. Whilst they re doing that they ll drop an average weeks mileage into the car, and home charging suddenly becomes less of a thing.
As someone who owns a PHEV and lives in a mid terrace town house, I can't see this working at all for busy streets. You'd effectively have to have an allocated parking space on the road, which would cause all sorts of additional issues. It would only work in places where there's way more on street parking than there are cars, which is usually only in areas were people have driveways.
On street public chargers make far more sense to me, we have loads around here (not UK) and rarely have any issue getting on one. The electricity is about double my domestic rate but it's still cheaper than running on petrol.
On street public chargers make far more sense to me, we have loads around here (not UK) and rarely have any issue getting on one. The electricity is about double my domestic rate but it's still cheaper than running on petrol.
It's impossible to implement on my estate. The place is mostly flats, roughly 1000 of them, and all parking is away from the buildings. Add in it's 5m above sea level and that any services have to be put in specially sealed trenches and the costs to do so is astronomical. Lots of the flats don't have designated parking too, let alone for multiple cars. Add in that most of it is rented accommodation and there is no real will or push to even start to do things about it.
A few people have moved to the area with EV's and been unable to have a home charger. Partly down to the things listed above but also because the local power grid is at capacity and there's no room for EV charging in it.
A few people have moved to the area with EV's and been unable to have a home charger. Partly down to the things listed above but also because the local power grid is at capacity and there's no room for EV charging in it.
Ankh87 said:
Of course it isn't straight forward. Anyone who lives in terrace housing with no front garden or anyone with half a brain knows it's not.
1. Who would be at fault is someone were to injure themself on these cables?
2. Who would be paying for these pavement chargers/cables?
3. Who would maintain them?
4. Who would manage them? As anyone can park on the road as long as they are parked legally and their vehicle is road legal?
5. Parking wars would happen.
That's just 5 things off top of my head.
As it's already running in certain areas, I am sure these issues have been thought about. 1. Who would be at fault is someone were to injure themself on these cables?
2. Who would be paying for these pavement chargers/cables?
3. Who would maintain them?
4. Who would manage them? As anyone can park on the road as long as they are parked legally and their vehicle is road legal?
5. Parking wars would happen.
That's just 5 things off top of my head.
RizzoTheRat said:
Road2Ruin said:
As it's already running in certain areas, I am sure these issues have been thought about.
Properly running or in trials to work out what the issues are? From the tone of the article posted it sounds like mostly in the trial stage?In the long run, I don't think it will be that difficult.
Road2Ruin said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Road2Ruin said:
As it's already running in certain areas, I am sure these issues have been thought about.
Properly running or in trials to work out what the issues are? From the tone of the article posted it sounds like mostly in the trial stage?In the long run, I don't think it will be that difficult.
s off paying for the groove and the annual maintenance only to find some white van parking in the spot I need. Further they unlike street chargers, as you can't approval to have one installed with a nearby lamp post or other metal street furniture, due to the potential earthing differences.Road2Ruin said:
No idea. I only mentioned it as posters sling these 'problems' about like it's the first time anyone has thought about them. The pavement project I saw on the TV, had a recess in the pavement for a cable to go from the front of the house to the road. So no tripping over cables. No idea how the secured their parking spot, though. The charger and cable are paid for and maintained by the owner of the house. I have also see projects with lamppost charges.
In the long run, I don't think it will be that difficult.
The lamp post approach makes a lot more sense to me. A public charger like that which anyone can use solves the parking issue as whoever needs it parks there, but then you have the additional cost of someone else maintaining it so its more expensive than domestic rates. In the long run, I don't think it will be that difficult.
I'd be wary about paying for a charger install and the trench but having no guarantee of being able to park in a place I could use it.
RizzoTheRat said:
The lamp post approach makes a lot more sense to me. A public charger like that which anyone can use solves the parking issue as whoever needs it parks there, but then you have the additional cost of someone else maintaining it so its more expensive than domestic rates.
I'd be wary about paying for a charger install and the trench but having no guarantee of being able to park in a place I could use it.
Lamppost makes sense in some places but not all. Where I live, the lamppost are staggered on either side. Then they are set back away from the kerb. So the cable would have to run across the floor. That's fine if the council/government are going to dig it up and run the cable under. What could possibly go wrong? Then if that doesn't happen, cables all over the path become a safety issue. I'd be wary about paying for a charger install and the trench but having no guarantee of being able to park in a place I could use it.
On top of the staggered posts, which means you'll be running a 20m+ cable from the post to the car down the street.
Even where I live, there's no room on the path for anything other than a lamppost. Pavement is about 1m wide and the post is practically against a wall. So any cables that stick out from the front would encroach the walk way. Cars often park on the kerb because it is near impossible to get 2 cars to drive side by side unless they are FIAT 500s. So it wouldn't work at all.
As mentioned, just build better charging ports for the public that don't have a home charger. It fits perfectly to what is already normal for ICE. Go to a place to put in energy. If it is true that the average miles 7500 a year. That's around 150 miles a week. Most EVs would only need to be charged up 1-2 times a week. That's nothing really. Super chargers would be like 10 minutes tops.
Those lucky to have a home charger would sacrifice having to charge up at a much slower speed but a cheaper KW cost.
Ankh87 said:
Lamppost makes sense in some places but not all. Where I live, the lamppost are staggered on either side. Then they are set back away from the kerb. So the cable would have to run across the floor. That's fine if the council/government are going to dig it up and run the cable under. What could possibly go wrong? Then if that doesn't happen, cables all over the path become a safety issue.
On top of the staggered posts, which means you'll be running a 20m+ cable from the post to the car down the street.
Even where I live, there's no room on the path for anything other than a lamppost. Pavement is about 1m wide and the post is practically against a wall. So any cables that stick out from the front would encroach the walk way. Cars often park on the kerb because it is near impossible to get 2 cars to drive side by side unless they are FIAT 500s. So it wouldn't work at all.
As mentioned, just build better charging ports for the public that don't have a home charger. It fits perfectly to what is already normal for ICE. Go to a place to put in energy. If it is true that the average miles 7500 a year. That's around 150 miles a week. Most EVs would only need to be charged up 1-2 times a week. That's nothing really. Super chargers would be like 10 minutes tops.
Those lucky to have a home charger would sacrifice having to charge up at a much slower speed but a cheaper KW cost.
Or, and I know this might be a revolutionary thought, do both. Do cross-pavement where it works, and people who live where it doesn't use the other facilities.On top of the staggered posts, which means you'll be running a 20m+ cable from the post to the car down the street.
Even where I live, there's no room on the path for anything other than a lamppost. Pavement is about 1m wide and the post is practically against a wall. So any cables that stick out from the front would encroach the walk way. Cars often park on the kerb because it is near impossible to get 2 cars to drive side by side unless they are FIAT 500s. So it wouldn't work at all.
As mentioned, just build better charging ports for the public that don't have a home charger. It fits perfectly to what is already normal for ICE. Go to a place to put in energy. If it is true that the average miles 7500 a year. That's around 150 miles a week. Most EVs would only need to be charged up 1-2 times a week. That's nothing really. Super chargers would be like 10 minutes tops.
Those lucky to have a home charger would sacrifice having to charge up at a much slower speed but a cheaper KW cost.
Nobody with a home charger has to sacrifice rapid charging either, rapid public chargers don't have a gate on them which prevents people with home chargers using them if they want/need to.
The lamp post approach is only one option for public charge points, our local ones look like this, they don't take up much space but if the roads not wide enough to park without people parking on the pavement then no, on street charging isn't going to work.
However one of the big reasons people site for not buying EV's is the inability to charge at home. Destination charging only really works if you're regularly somewhere with sufficiently fast chargers, most supermarket ones I see in the UK tend to be 7kWh so not much use if you're only going to be there half an hour.
However one of the big reasons people site for not buying EV's is the inability to charge at home. Destination charging only really works if you're regularly somewhere with sufficiently fast chargers, most supermarket ones I see in the UK tend to be 7kWh so not much use if you're only going to be there half an hour.
Skodillac said:
Ankh87 said:
Lamppost makes sense in some places but not all. Where I live, the lamppost are staggered on either side. Then they are set back away from the kerb. So the cable would have to run across the floor. That's fine if the council/government are going to dig it up and run the cable under. What could possibly go wrong? Then if that doesn't happen, cables all over the path become a safety issue.
On top of the staggered posts, which means you'll be running a 20m+ cable from the post to the car down the street.
Even where I live, there's no room on the path for anything other than a lamppost. Pavement is about 1m wide and the post is practically against a wall. So any cables that stick out from the front would encroach the walk way. Cars often park on the kerb because it is near impossible to get 2 cars to drive side by side unless they are FIAT 500s. So it wouldn't work at all.
As mentioned, just build better charging ports for the public that don't have a home charger. It fits perfectly to what is already normal for ICE. Go to a place to put in energy. If it is true that the average miles 7500 a year. That's around 150 miles a week. Most EVs would only need to be charged up 1-2 times a week. That's nothing really. Super chargers would be like 10 minutes tops.
Those lucky to have a home charger would sacrifice having to charge up at a much slower speed but a cheaper KW cost.
Or, and I know this might be a revolutionary thought, do both. Do cross-pavement where it works, and people who live where it doesn't use the other facilities.On top of the staggered posts, which means you'll be running a 20m+ cable from the post to the car down the street.
Even where I live, there's no room on the path for anything other than a lamppost. Pavement is about 1m wide and the post is practically against a wall. So any cables that stick out from the front would encroach the walk way. Cars often park on the kerb because it is near impossible to get 2 cars to drive side by side unless they are FIAT 500s. So it wouldn't work at all.
As mentioned, just build better charging ports for the public that don't have a home charger. It fits perfectly to what is already normal for ICE. Go to a place to put in energy. If it is true that the average miles 7500 a year. That's around 150 miles a week. Most EVs would only need to be charged up 1-2 times a week. That's nothing really. Super chargers would be like 10 minutes tops.
Those lucky to have a home charger would sacrifice having to charge up at a much slower speed but a cheaper KW cost.
Nobody with a home charger has to sacrifice rapid charging either, rapid public chargers don't have a gate on them which prevents people with home chargers using them if they want/need to.
There's no point in making multiple solutions when there is 1 very simple solution that would fit everywhere. The 1 solution is cost effective and means there's practically zero chances that the council gets a court case because you fell over the cable or something. Dedicated Charging stations can be upgraded easily, cause minor disruption when getting worked on.
Imagine when the council or water or electricity board has to come up and dig up the road for X reason. That means the entire street is dead because they have closed the road off or had to cut the power. That's a massive inconvenience. Instead just closing a charging station means you go to the next one available, just like a petrol station is closed. Minor problem.
Just done a random street view of Barnsley up North. As you can see here the lamppost are staggered, where are the chargers going to go? Is there going to be a 50m cable run down the road? What happens when the road is closed for X reason? Where do these people charge up? Do they just go to the next street?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GcuEZJzx8oz4gwgs7
This is why a dedicated charging station works. Once petrol and diesel becomes less and less, the fueling stations can be converted to charging stations.
Edited by Ankh87 on Thursday 7th May 14:39
Skodillac said:
And yet there are already cross pavement charging areas, and these imaginary problems aren't happening.
I am utterly baffled why anyone should think this part of the transition to EV should be stopped in all cases. It clearly works well in the right circumstances.
So does riding a horse and cart. These aren't made up problems. My street got relayed, it was closed for 2 days. That would mean zero charging for street chargers. Luckily I were away when it happened so didn't have an effect but for others it did. I am utterly baffled why anyone should think this part of the transition to EV should be stopped in all cases. It clearly works well in the right circumstances.
It's not about stopping, I have an EV and a home charger. It's about rather than wasting a boat load of money on these solutions that only work in certain areas. Maybe hear me out here, get 1 solution that fits all? That will cause minimal disruption to be setup, minimal disruption to maintain, no one arguing other parking spots on the road. No police call outs because person 1 has punched person 2 other a parking spot.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff