Real value of a 996
Discussion
This model seems to be marmite, for reasons we all know, but I am genuinely looking at getting one as a weekend car. I've seen a C4 that looks a good price (yes I know if it's too good to be true etc., but apparently well looked after) with full history although higher miles - circa 95k.
How do I know if it's really a good price when the likes of webuyanycar and the likes are offering anywhere between 10-12 grand for these things. Most examples I have seen under the 100k miles mark are at least £16k and upwards.
Is it simply, these cars aren't worth us taking in so will offer low, and apart from a PPI in the car and bore score check. And, should I be worrying this much about a car 22-23 years old that isn't my main car? hmm.
How do I know if it's really a good price when the likes of webuyanycar and the likes are offering anywhere between 10-12 grand for these things. Most examples I have seen under the 100k miles mark are at least £16k and upwards.
Is it simply, these cars aren't worth us taking in so will offer low, and apart from a PPI in the car and bore score check. And, should I be worrying this much about a car 22-23 years old that isn't my main car? hmm.
The gap is about what you’d expect – WBAC price reflects what the trade needs to make margin, so you’re effectively seeing the dealer spread laid bare. Whether that 3-4k difference represents value depends on condition, history, and how much you trust the seller. A private car with full Porsche history and recent preventative work at 16k is almost certainly the better buy. A mystery special at 15k with a service history that reads like a redacted government document probably isn’t.
The useful thing about WBAC is it gives you a genuine floor. If you buy at 16k and things go wrong, you know roughly where your exit is. Painful, but not catastrophic. It’s also handy leverage when negotiating privately – sellers don’t always appreciate that their buyer has an alternative use for that cash.
The useful thing about WBAC is it gives you a genuine floor. If you buy at 16k and things go wrong, you know roughly where your exit is. Painful, but not catastrophic. It’s also handy leverage when negotiating privately – sellers don’t always appreciate that their buyer has an alternative use for that cash.
Toyota-MR23 said:
The gap is about what you d expect WBAC price reflects what the trade needs to make margin, so you re effectively seeing the dealer spread laid bare. Whether that 3-4k difference represents value depends on condition, history, and how much you trust the seller. A private car with full Porsche history and recent preventative work at 16k is almost certainly the better buy. A mystery special at 15k with a service history that reads like a redacted government document probably isn t.
The useful thing about WBAC is it gives you a genuine floor. If you buy at 16k and things go wrong, you know roughly where your exit is. Painful, but not catastrophic. It s also handy leverage when negotiating privately sellers don t always appreciate that their buyer has an alternative use for that cash.????????????????
Good point The useful thing about WBAC is it gives you a genuine floor. If you buy at 16k and things go wrong, you know roughly where your exit is. Painful, but not catastrophic. It s also handy leverage when negotiating privately sellers don t always appreciate that their buyer has an alternative use for that cash.????????????????
I do need to see some evidence of some major work, otherwise my potential 'good priced' toy will turn quickly into an expensive troublesome toy I suspect.
WBAC pricing on something like a 996 is not hugely reflective of market value. With a high volume, mass market car it’s a guide to trade pricing (a bit below trade pricing obviously in order to actually make money at auction) and they have a very clear idea of value from numerous recent sales of similar models and so their bid, plus a bit, is quite indicative of the market.
But with something like a 996, they don’t have nearly enough going through auction to generate the data needed to price reliably, so have to bid even lower to reduce the chance of a large loss.
Put another way, they don’t really want to buy cars like 996, there’s not enough clarity on values, and will only do so at very low bids. But as above, it still gives you an idea of what the backstop is, provided you can show the car running and without the dashboard lit up like an Christmas tree!
But with something like a 996, they don’t have nearly enough going through auction to generate the data needed to price reliably, so have to bid even lower to reduce the chance of a large loss.
Put another way, they don’t really want to buy cars like 996, there’s not enough clarity on values, and will only do so at very low bids. But as above, it still gives you an idea of what the backstop is, provided you can show the car running and without the dashboard lit up like an Christmas tree!
I was looking at dealers for a 996 C2/4 and wanted either the very best with an engine rebuild, or something that had a perfect history. In the event I bought privately from a one family owned <20k miles that was barely used and had lived its entire life in the garage. I paid the asking price (£27k) and the poor seller s phone would not stop ringing, even during my viewing. One caller offered £500 over asking sight unseen as we were talking!
At the other end, there are lots of cars for £10k less than I paid, but I wanted pristine and unmolested. And this is. I am fully aware of potential future issues, but at the moment, I m very happy with my purchase. A similar car was £30k with 60k miles at Paragon and sold before I could see it. Decide what is your price point and forget WBAC valuations, focus on quality and history.
Just back from Mrs DH’s first drive with the small dog cage. It s a hit.
At the other end, there are lots of cars for £10k less than I paid, but I wanted pristine and unmolested. And this is. I am fully aware of potential future issues, but at the moment, I m very happy with my purchase. A similar car was £30k with 60k miles at Paragon and sold before I could see it. Decide what is your price point and forget WBAC valuations, focus on quality and history.
Just back from Mrs DH’s first drive with the small dog cage. It s a hit.
Edited by DrugHunter on Saturday 9th May 20:49
I went the other way and bought bargain basement at £8900 (6 years ago iirc) on 140k miles and a stamped service book without receipts. The appeal was that the body was rust free but was dropping oil from every orifice
This was more as a hobby though as I wanted a weekend project and thankfully it’s worked out well.
Done a ton of work including AOS, thermostat and housing, water pump and 2 new radiators in the last couple of weeks but it’s really not cost me much money overall and I’ve used it a fair amount.
This was more as a hobby though as I wanted a weekend project and thankfully it’s worked out well.
Done a ton of work including AOS, thermostat and housing, water pump and 2 new radiators in the last couple of weeks but it’s really not cost me much money overall and I’ve used it a fair amount.
MinchCS said:
Great drive, but I couldn't live with the looks - a low point for Porsche.
Another cracking contribution. 
WBAC don't want a car like this, these cars can easily cost £10k to get right if you are paying to have the work done.
They make no sense to a company like WBAC, they would all go into auction, and most are put through auction because they have issues. Now, some issues may be small and not that expensive to sort, but some can be more than the car is worth.
These are all £35k cars now, just the market hasn't quite caught up.
One thing I will say though, a well sorted 996 is one of the best back road 911's you can buy.
Nice suspension, decent gearshift fitted, it just offers something rather special that even the 997 doesn't quite manage.
I also really do like the looks more and more as they age too.
I share the view that the 996/986 platform was a low point for Porsche. When buying look for a comprehensive service history, rust, clutch, IMS, borescore etc.
If you’re prepared to work on the car yourself fine, but if you’ll be paying a dealer or specialist to look after it for you, it’ll be very expensive to maintain.
Prices are on the up, though. If I were buying one I’d buy a C4S, manual, or 3.4 manual coupe with less that 100k miles and avoid the C4, Tips or convertibles.
If you’re prepared to work on the car yourself fine, but if you’ll be paying a dealer or specialist to look after it for you, it’ll be very expensive to maintain.
Prices are on the up, though. If I were buying one I’d buy a C4S, manual, or 3.4 manual coupe with less that 100k miles and avoid the C4, Tips or convertibles.
So I always wanted a C4S, but reading up on some feedback from various sources, they're not as enticing to drive presumably down to its fat backside! Kinda contradicts why a turbo would be any better - obvs the power difference probably exonerates the lack of balance. I wouldn't know.
However, as time goes on, I think the 996 is developing a classic look. The 997 for instance, most looks like an older 991, or 992 etc. and the analogue feel people talk about is something I hope makes it feel more old school.
Perhaps I would be better with a C2, as I'm a little apprehensive that the C4 will not feel lively enough!
I was considering a 986 S for a bit of top down fun and something that sounds nice, but I'll still end up wanting a 911... that said, if I end up with a 996 NA I'm going to want a Turbo in time but at least I might have something to trade!
However, as time goes on, I think the 996 is developing a classic look. The 997 for instance, most looks like an older 991, or 992 etc. and the analogue feel people talk about is something I hope makes it feel more old school.
Perhaps I would be better with a C2, as I'm a little apprehensive that the C4 will not feel lively enough!
I was considering a 986 S for a bit of top down fun and something that sounds nice, but I'll still end up wanting a 911... that said, if I end up with a 996 NA I'm going to want a Turbo in time but at least I might have something to trade!
Toyota-MR23 said:
EdNeuman said:
These are all £35k cars now, just the market hasn't quite caught up.
Whilst I admire your optimism, are you an owner of one per chance?These are £35k cars now.
You can buy one for £35k that is properly sorted.
You can buy one for £20k and spend £15k getting it sorted.
Or you can buy one for £25k that the previous owner has spent £10-15k getting sorted.
Obviously the last one is preferable, but if you look at all the cars out there, and take into account how much has been spent over the last 4 or 5 years or15k miles or so it will come to £35k.
There will always be exceptions, but I stand by what I say.
Just the market hasn't quite caught up yet. But you will get to the point like all classic cars where they will either be left to die or the money will be spent and their value will reflect that.
Control arms, drop links, roll bar bushes, engine mounts, subframe bushes etc. £2500-3500.
Dampers and Springs, top mounts - £1500-5000 depending what you use.
Clutch £800
Flywheel (these are starting to delaminate) do it with the clutch for another £600
Coolant pipes, expansion tank etc. £1500
Climate lines £2000.
Y Cable £350
Starter motor £500
Alternator £700
Can chain tensioner pads are at the age where they really do have to be done now. More engine will let go due to these than any scare stories about IMS or borescore.
You then have the fact the bearings are getting worn and will need replacing as the miles rack up.
We are at that stage all classic cars get to, people who are keeping them forever will spend the money, those who can't afford to will flip them on so they don't have to spend the money, but even a half sorted car is going to cost far more than the market is currently getting for them. We are also seeing loads of £10-12k cars being advertised at £25k and at the same time seeing loads of cars that are worth £35-40k being advertised at £25k too.
There comes a point where the cost to get them right is reflected in the market value. We are not quite there yet, but it won't be long.
barryrs said:
Early 3.4 manual C2 s seem to be the most sought after and most likely to be future classics (from what I have read over the years).
It only takes around 3-4 hours, £120 worth of front drive shafts* to convert it to RWD. So don't write off a nice C4 if you are looking.
- If you don't want to split the C4 ones so you can go back if you want it.
I wanted a 993 C2. Mrs DH sat in one and said she didn’t like the old interior. I also didn’t have garage space. Test drove a 996 C2. Looked at a C4S - don’t like the rear and wide body. Bought the C4. Could’t really tell the difference of the mild 4wd so won’t convert. I like the shape, like the lights, like the advance from air cooled. And like the analogue feel. I have a Macan that is great to drive but almost sterile by comparison. The brakes are terrible though (Macan has full PCCB).
If it appreciates, nice problem to have. Keeping it clean, original and properly maintained is my goal. So far I love it. The dog didn’t complain either!
If it appreciates, nice problem to have. Keeping it clean, original and properly maintained is my goal. So far I love it. The dog didn’t complain either!
DrugHunter said:
The brakes are terrible though (Macan has full PCCB).
Brakes on a 996 are terrible?Two things must ye know about the 996 brakes.
First, they are not over-servo-assisted like most modern brakes. You need to push them, but you can therefore modulate them much better, IMHO.
And second, the discs of that age tend to corrode on the inner face, not easily seen, and this reduces the braking force somewhat.
Orangecurry said:
Brakes on a 996 are terrible?
Two things must ye know about the 996 brakes.
First, they are not over-servo-assisted like most modern brakes. You need to push them, but you can therefore modulate them much better, IMHO.
And second, the discs of that age tend to corrode on the inner face, not easily seen, and this reduces the braking force somewhat.
Agree on this, a lot of folk drive a mate's 996/997 car and think the brakes are terrible but you just need time in the car driving in spirited fashion before you get tuned into what they need to be effective. I have X1, without sports suspension, and it always takes me time to re-adjust to how unnecessarily over braked it is compared the 991.2. On the 9*1 on cars you can tweak the pressure applied via the servo by coding it.Two things must ye know about the 996 brakes.
First, they are not over-servo-assisted like most modern brakes. You need to push them, but you can therefore modulate them much better, IMHO.
And second, the discs of that age tend to corrode on the inner face, not easily seen, and this reduces the braking force somewhat.
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