E90 M3 running costs / risks nowadays?
Discussion
Looking for a V8 family hack while I still can, and the E90 M3 is one of the few with a (admittedly rare) manual 'box...and THAT engine!
I know it's not going to be hot-hatch money to run, and a 15+ y.o. M-car isn't exactly risk-free, but I also understand that the engine's rod-bearing issues are now well-known and sadly should be treated as a service item, so there's little excuse for one on the market not to have been done already.
...so, what can I realistically expect in terms of servicing costs, what is recommended preventative maintenance, and above all what (other than rod bearings) are the big risks / big bills...and how likely actually are they to come home to roost (on the aforementioned 15+y.o. 70-100k mile car)?
Thanks,
Martin.
PS - any ownership experiences, good or bad, gratefully received.
I know it's not going to be hot-hatch money to run, and a 15+ y.o. M-car isn't exactly risk-free, but I also understand that the engine's rod-bearing issues are now well-known and sadly should be treated as a service item, so there's little excuse for one on the market not to have been done already.
...so, what can I realistically expect in terms of servicing costs, what is recommended preventative maintenance, and above all what (other than rod bearings) are the big risks / big bills...and how likely actually are they to come home to roost (on the aforementioned 15+y.o. 70-100k mile car)?
Thanks,
Martin.
PS - any ownership experiences, good or bad, gratefully received.
I don't own an M3, but I do own a V10 M5, and the V8 is based on the V10, just with 2 cylinders chopped off.
If the rod bearings have been done and ACL / Mahle ones have been used, then you'll be good for a while. The other issue with the V8 is that it can eat through main bearings. These tend not to get changed as it's a significant job. Engine mounts can go on the M3 as well, and these would normally be changed at the same time as the rod bearings. Throttle actuators are an issue, but they can be rebuilt. I know that the V10 can suffer with idle actuator issues and I think the V8 may be the same, but someone else can add about that.
Coils are quite expensive, and I'd advise changing the fuel injectors if there is no history, as they can get damaged and leak fuel into the bore, causing engine failure.
The cam covers can also suffer corrosion. Some owners replace with after market aluminium ones. The V10 uses aluminium whereas theV8 has magnesium alloy and is susceptible to becoming microporous.
The V8 has a different VANOS set up than the V10 and has been known to suffer with VANOS cover failure. There are aftermarket kits available to prevent this, but it's cam and VANOS cover off job.
These are some of the issues I am aware of, and I am sure someone will be along to give more information and provide more context from an owner's POV.
If the rod bearings have been done and ACL / Mahle ones have been used, then you'll be good for a while. The other issue with the V8 is that it can eat through main bearings. These tend not to get changed as it's a significant job. Engine mounts can go on the M3 as well, and these would normally be changed at the same time as the rod bearings. Throttle actuators are an issue, but they can be rebuilt. I know that the V10 can suffer with idle actuator issues and I think the V8 may be the same, but someone else can add about that.
Coils are quite expensive, and I'd advise changing the fuel injectors if there is no history, as they can get damaged and leak fuel into the bore, causing engine failure.
The cam covers can also suffer corrosion. Some owners replace with after market aluminium ones. The V10 uses aluminium whereas theV8 has magnesium alloy and is susceptible to becoming microporous.
The V8 has a different VANOS set up than the V10 and has been known to suffer with VANOS cover failure. There are aftermarket kits available to prevent this, but it's cam and VANOS cover off job.
These are some of the issues I am aware of, and I am sure someone will be along to give more information and provide more context from an owner's POV.
TheAngryDog said:
I don't own an M3, but I do own a V10 M5, and the V8 is based on the V10, just with 2 cylinders chopped off.
If the rod bearings have been done and ACL / Mahle ones have been used, then you'll be good for a while. The other issue with the V8 is that it can eat through main bearings. These tend not to get changed as it's a significant job. Engine mounts can go on the M3 as well, and these would normally be changed at the same time as the rod bearings. Throttle actuators are an issue, but they can be rebuilt. I know that the V10 can suffer with idle actuator issues and I think the V8 may be the same, but someone else can add about that.
Coils are quite expensive, and I'd advise changing the fuel injectors if there is no history, as they can get damaged and leak fuel into the bore, causing engine failure.
The cam covers can also suffer corrosion. Some owners replace with after market aluminium ones. The V10 uses aluminium whereas theV8 has magnesium alloy and is susceptible to becoming microporous.
The V8 has a different VANOS set up than the V10 and has been known to suffer with VANOS cover failure. There are aftermarket kits available to prevent this, but it's cam and VANOS cover off job.
These are some of the issues I am aware of, and I am sure someone will be along to give more information and provide more context from an owner's POV.
If the rod bearings have been done and ACL / Mahle ones have been used, then you'll be good for a while. The other issue with the V8 is that it can eat through main bearings. These tend not to get changed as it's a significant job. Engine mounts can go on the M3 as well, and these would normally be changed at the same time as the rod bearings. Throttle actuators are an issue, but they can be rebuilt. I know that the V10 can suffer with idle actuator issues and I think the V8 may be the same, but someone else can add about that.
Coils are quite expensive, and I'd advise changing the fuel injectors if there is no history, as they can get damaged and leak fuel into the bore, causing engine failure.
The cam covers can also suffer corrosion. Some owners replace with after market aluminium ones. The V10 uses aluminium whereas theV8 has magnesium alloy and is susceptible to becoming microporous.
The V8 has a different VANOS set up than the V10 and has been known to suffer with VANOS cover failure. There are aftermarket kits available to prevent this, but it's cam and VANOS cover off job.
These are some of the issues I am aware of, and I am sure someone will be along to give more information and provide more context from an owner's POV.
That's just the engine there. I'm waiting for the gearbox / suspension / bodywork / electrics lists to follow...
havoc said:
TheAngryDog said:
I don't own an M3, but I do own a V10 M5, and the V8 is based on the V10, just with 2 cylinders chopped off.
If the rod bearings have been done and ACL / Mahle ones have been used, then you'll be good for a while. The other issue with the V8 is that it can eat through main bearings. These tend not to get changed as it's a significant job. Engine mounts can go on the M3 as well, and these would normally be changed at the same time as the rod bearings. Throttle actuators are an issue, but they can be rebuilt. I know that the V10 can suffer with idle actuator issues and I think the V8 may be the same, but someone else can add about that.
Coils are quite expensive, and I'd advise changing the fuel injectors if there is no history, as they can get damaged and leak fuel into the bore, causing engine failure.
The cam covers can also suffer corrosion. Some owners replace with after market aluminium ones. The V10 uses aluminium whereas theV8 has magnesium alloy and is susceptible to becoming microporous.
The V8 has a different VANOS set up than the V10 and has been known to suffer with VANOS cover failure. There are aftermarket kits available to prevent this, but it's cam and VANOS cover off job.
These are some of the issues I am aware of, and I am sure someone will be along to give more information and provide more context from an owner's POV.
If the rod bearings have been done and ACL / Mahle ones have been used, then you'll be good for a while. The other issue with the V8 is that it can eat through main bearings. These tend not to get changed as it's a significant job. Engine mounts can go on the M3 as well, and these would normally be changed at the same time as the rod bearings. Throttle actuators are an issue, but they can be rebuilt. I know that the V10 can suffer with idle actuator issues and I think the V8 may be the same, but someone else can add about that.
Coils are quite expensive, and I'd advise changing the fuel injectors if there is no history, as they can get damaged and leak fuel into the bore, causing engine failure.
The cam covers can also suffer corrosion. Some owners replace with after market aluminium ones. The V10 uses aluminium whereas theV8 has magnesium alloy and is susceptible to becoming microporous.
The V8 has a different VANOS set up than the V10 and has been known to suffer with VANOS cover failure. There are aftermarket kits available to prevent this, but it's cam and VANOS cover off job.
These are some of the issues I am aware of, and I am sure someone will be along to give more information and provide more context from an owner's POV.
That's just the engine there. I'm waiting for the gearbox / suspension / bodywork / electrics lists to follow...
The manual box is reliable, suspension is the same for any car of its ilk. Non EDC cars are probably better in this regard as replacement suspension will be cheaper. I'm not aware of any electric issues with the E90. An October 2008 onwards car would be a good one to get with the CIC idrive rather than CCC. I haven't seen many/any rusty E90 M3's, they tend to get looked after as they're the more rarer and more expensive car out of the 3.
You want to buy a car that has been regularly serviced (not just at the intervals, as that was far too long). Do this and you'll likely end up with a good car and little to worry about.
After hankering for one since I was a kid I bought my 2009 model a year ago. First thing I noticed when I started hunting was how many neglected examples there are knocking about, cars with flashy intakes and trim but lacking in any real maintenance work aside from an oil change two years ago and there are still loads on original rod bearings so it might take some time to find the right one for you.
I ended up with a 60k mile Jap import, incredible condition, a few nice options and full BMW history (in Japanese
). I wanted one that had not had the bearings done as I rather have them done myself and know how it's been treated since. The first lot of work was to replace the rod bearings, throttle actuators and to investigate a slightly noisy LSD which I ended up having rebuilt. I'd hoped this would cover the main issues but I had read about injector issues cropping up too now so after a chat with Darragh at Everything M Power I decided to get the in tank pump replaced as it has a built in filter, at the same time I had the gearbox serviced too. A few months later the water pump was wobbling it's tits off so that was replaced, it made sense to swap out the belts and pulleys while it was apart so that was all done.
I've replaced a few regular bits along the way, washer pump, wheel speed sensors and bonnet struts, these are all cheap enough and they're the same as the regular E90s but the bigger jobs consume money quickly. Front discs and pads were £550 for quality ones. I have been very risk averse with it, I could have tried some friction modification fluid in the LSD and I could have probably risked the fuel pump but I want to enjoy it rather than spend my time worrying about things going wrong. It consumes fuel at an impressive rate, tax is high (imports are a bit less) but its worth every penny IMO. I should add mine is a full garage queen, I store it inside over winter and through summer it's mainly used for road trips.
I ended up with a 60k mile Jap import, incredible condition, a few nice options and full BMW history (in Japanese
). I wanted one that had not had the bearings done as I rather have them done myself and know how it's been treated since. The first lot of work was to replace the rod bearings, throttle actuators and to investigate a slightly noisy LSD which I ended up having rebuilt. I'd hoped this would cover the main issues but I had read about injector issues cropping up too now so after a chat with Darragh at Everything M Power I decided to get the in tank pump replaced as it has a built in filter, at the same time I had the gearbox serviced too. A few months later the water pump was wobbling it's tits off so that was replaced, it made sense to swap out the belts and pulleys while it was apart so that was all done. I've replaced a few regular bits along the way, washer pump, wheel speed sensors and bonnet struts, these are all cheap enough and they're the same as the regular E90s but the bigger jobs consume money quickly. Front discs and pads were £550 for quality ones. I have been very risk averse with it, I could have tried some friction modification fluid in the LSD and I could have probably risked the fuel pump but I want to enjoy it rather than spend my time worrying about things going wrong. It consumes fuel at an impressive rate, tax is high (imports are a bit less) but its worth every penny IMO. I should add mine is a full garage queen, I store it inside over winter and through summer it's mainly used for road trips.
I have a 2012 comp pack. I bought it about 8 years ago and in that time, it's been the most reliable car I've owned. The only issue I have had is actuators and both were replaced under warranty. Everything else has been totally fine. Main cost is petrol and road tax and I have used the car as my main car. I keep wanting to replace it, but it doesn't depreciate and has been so easy to live with I really struggle.
I’m 4 months into ownership now. As others have said buy the car with the best history.
I’ve driven a few over the years and think the dct suits it best.
I bought mine from a friend who had spent 5k in 3 years of ownership getting the big stuff done.
So far I’ve done a wheel speed sensor (£94) , front drop links (£90 ish) bonnet struts, and have had the EDC warning light come on. That was an easy fix though as one of the connectors on the front damper had come loose.
Also had a rear knock on the suspension which took me ages to find, turns out rear shock was loose in the lower arm, just nipped it up.
They are great cars, I love it, tax is a lot to stomach though and it loves a drink, 25 mpg on a run, teens around town, but that v8 sound!!!
I’ve driven a few over the years and think the dct suits it best.
I bought mine from a friend who had spent 5k in 3 years of ownership getting the big stuff done.
So far I’ve done a wheel speed sensor (£94) , front drop links (£90 ish) bonnet struts, and have had the EDC warning light come on. That was an easy fix though as one of the connectors on the front damper had come loose.
Also had a rear knock on the suspension which took me ages to find, turns out rear shock was loose in the lower arm, just nipped it up.
They are great cars, I love it, tax is a lot to stomach though and it loves a drink, 25 mpg on a run, teens around town, but that v8 sound!!!
I have a 2010 (LCI) unmodified E90 4door manual that is very tidy on 75k miles. All the preventative engine work done with photographic evidence by previous owner.
In 18months and 10k miles mine has cost me about £1500 I guess in an abs-sensor, an alternator (most of that cost) and a main-dealer service. I’ve enjoyed owning it and it regularly gets thumbs up and comments from those in the know that recognise what it is.
Thinking of moving it on and wondering about current values for such a rare car(I think BMW UK only sold about 270 example)
In 18months and 10k miles mine has cost me about £1500 I guess in an abs-sensor, an alternator (most of that cost) and a main-dealer service. I’ve enjoyed owning it and it regularly gets thumbs up and comments from those in the know that recognise what it is.
Thinking of moving it on and wondering about current values for such a rare car(I think BMW UK only sold about 270 example)
Edited by Benja_Exige on Friday 2nd October 21:01
Benja_Exige said:
I have a 2010 (LCI) unmodified E90 4door manual that is very tidy on 75k miles. All the preventative engine work done with photographic evidence. Thinking of moving it on and wondering about current values for such a rare car(I think BMW UK only sold about 270 example)
I've kept an eye on what they come up for since getting mine, clean cars with that kind of milage and good history seem to come up for £24k-£26k without any of the big jobs done. I couldn't say what they're actually selling for of course but they don't seem to hang about long as far as I can tell. If it's had the usual TAs and RBs done then it'll be worth a touch more.I think the E90 are so thin on the ground that it doesn't matter much which gearbox, colour or options they have now if I'm honest. If it's a clean car with plenty of history it should sell well.
Reasonableness of running costs depends on your frame of reference. My E93 has been the most reliable car I've owned (...which probably says more about the other cars I've had!).
havoc said:
That's just the engine there. I'm waiting for the gearbox / suspension / bodywork / electrics lists to follow...
Remember a lot is regular E9x-3-series so while there might be issues, it won't be expensive or unusual to fix - it's only the special M3 bits that are likely to be risky.Jakg said:
Reasonableness of running costs depends on your frame of reference.
For the last 13 years I've run a Jap import FD2 Civic Type R as a daily.In 110k miles it's needed:-
- New clutch
- New rear dampers
- New a/c compressor and condenser when a stone took the condenser out and the system ran dry
- couple of new batteries
...and it needs a new double-DIN head unit now
Beyond that it's been regular servicing only (fluids, filters, plugs, brake pads/discs, tyres). Literally nothing has broken on it. The bearings, bushes and front dampers are still in working order after that time, FFS!
So £3k of non-routine spend over 110k miles, £3.5k if you include the HU. And £200-500 per year servicing depending on if minor or major. That's the (rather problematic) frame of reference I've got...
I also swapped the suspension back to semi-OE from the Litchfield-fitted coilovers I bought it with, as personal preference...not sure if that counts or not.
(The NSX is probably a closer frame-of-reference - at a rough guess still only £15-20k of servicing, parts, tyres etc. altogether over 17 years - but I don't want to put keeping that car at risk by buying a German money-pit!
)havoc said:
For the last 13 years I've run a Jap import FD2 Civic Type R as a daily.
In 110k miles it's needed:-
- New clutch
- New rear dampers
- New a/c compressor and condenser when a stone took the condenser out and the system ran dry
- couple of new batteries
...and it needs a new double-DIN head unit now
Beyond that it's been regular servicing only (fluids, filters, plugs, brake pads/discs, tyres). Literally nothing has broken on it. The bearings, bushes and front dampers are still in working order after that time, FFS!
So £3k of non-routine spend over 110k miles, £3.5k if you include the HU. And £200-500 per year servicing depending on if minor or major. That's the (rather problematic) frame of reference I've got...
I also swapped the suspension back to semi-OE from the Litchfield-fitted coilovers I bought it with, as personal preference...not sure if that counts or not.
(The NSX is probably a closer frame-of-reference - at a rough guess still only £15-20k of servicing, parts, tyres etc. altogether over 17 years - but I don't want to put keeping that car at risk by buying a German money-pit! )
I has similar, 7 years with a new 340i that gave me zero issues to running the M3 In 110k miles it's needed:-
- New clutch
- New rear dampers
- New a/c compressor and condenser when a stone took the condenser out and the system ran dry
- couple of new batteries
...and it needs a new double-DIN head unit now
Beyond that it's been regular servicing only (fluids, filters, plugs, brake pads/discs, tyres). Literally nothing has broken on it. The bearings, bushes and front dampers are still in working order after that time, FFS!
So £3k of non-routine spend over 110k miles, £3.5k if you include the HU. And £200-500 per year servicing depending on if minor or major. That's the (rather problematic) frame of reference I've got...
I also swapped the suspension back to semi-OE from the Litchfield-fitted coilovers I bought it with, as personal preference...not sure if that counts or not.
(The NSX is probably a closer frame-of-reference - at a rough guess still only £15-20k of servicing, parts, tyres etc. altogether over 17 years - but I don't want to put keeping that car at risk by buying a German money-pit!
)18 months/8k miles of ownership and if I take the mods out of the costs I'm at £13k ish, the majority was preventative work or servicing costs but all bits that are fairly common. It is true that most of the car is build of regular E9x parts but having owned a few E90 BMWs now in my experience those bits don't go wrong all that often, except maybe ABS rings
havoc said:
£13k would wipe out all my savings and some of the wife's. Preventative maintenance or not, that's a f
king death-sentence if you're married with kids...[wandersofftolookatboringdiesels]
havoc said:
Jakg said:
Reasonableness of running costs depends on your frame of reference.
For the last 13 years I've run a Jap import FD2 Civic Type R as a daily.{...}
So £3k of non-routine spend over 110k miles, £3.5k if you include the HU. And £200-500 per year servicing depending on if minor or major. That's the (rather problematic) frame of reference I've got...
Pizzaeatingking said:
18 months/8k miles of ownership and if I take the mods out of the costs I'm at £13k ish, the majority was preventative work or servicing costs but all bits that are fairly common.
havoc said:
£13k would wipe out all my savings and some of the wife's.
havoc said:
wandersofftolookatboringdiesels
For comparison, the N57 BMW diesel engine suffers with all of these same faults as well:TheAngryDog said:
{...} rod bearings {...} main bearings {...} Engine mounts {...} fuel injectors {...} cam covers {...}
I had one from new in 2011. If I’m honest I wasn’t as impressed as I wanted to be, but it had a few gremlins, not least the engine dropping a rod after 9 months requiring a new engine block, which would have cost around £20k if not on warranty. The exhaust also cracked somehow. That put the car in limp mode, but only when it was very warm, as it was a hairline crack and only became an issue once it heated up and separated a bit. That took a lot of time to find and the replacement cost was eye watering, as it’s a single piece unit.
Ongoing servicing costs would have been mental too, but less of an issue now as you’ll be using an independent over a franchised dealer.
Bizarrely I swapped it for a new F82 M4 which I felt was superior in every way
Ongoing servicing costs would have been mental too, but less of an issue now as you’ll be using an independent over a franchised dealer.
Bizarrely I swapped it for a new F82 M4 which I felt was superior in every way
They are excellent cars but they are getting old now which brings cost.
For reference I got mine in 2017 and it has had the following things done under my care.
Oil change every year and then servicing as needed.
Throttle actuators replaced as a preventative measure.
BMW overserviced the break reservoir causing fluid to drip on to a solenoid and put the car into limp mode (lesson learned and it now goes to evolve).
For reference I got mine in 2017 and it has had the following things done under my care.
Oil change every year and then servicing as needed.
Throttle actuators replaced as a preventative measure.
BMW overserviced the break reservoir causing fluid to drip on to a solenoid and put the car into limp mode (lesson learned and it now goes to evolve).
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