Put at risk and redundancy package negotiations

[BumFLuff]

For first time in my career was put at risk today, had been there 5 years, senior vp IT at bank. The redundancy package was less than hoped but it was £15k more than statutory, plus I get notice paid etc 13 weeks. I read online I should negotiate the package and not accept the first offer, but also read you won't get far if its the initial offer is above statutory. What are others experience on this is it worth negotiating if above statutory or not ?

Thanks

[Jasandjules]

Don't ask, don't get. So ask.

[v8notbrave]

I managed to eek out £5k few years ago by promising to be a good leaver and handing over, finishing crap etc, it then becomes clear to them if they don't stump up what could happen, may as well ask. In the end I worked 2 or 3 hours a day for a month to satisfy this requirement

[Opapayer]

You haven’t been made redundant, you’re on a list with others who could also be made redundant. At least that’s how it should work. Are there a number of you doing the same role who have been placed at risk, or are you the only one? That definition is by job title, pay grade and other factual parts of your employment, not whether you think you’re better than the others, or do a couple of extra tasks too.

The package is likely to be fixed and defined in your employment contract. That’s your first port of call to check the offer matches what’s in there. It’s fairly unlikely you’ll get to negotiate a better package, that’s usually severance terms for a more senior staff member who isn’t being made redundant, just told they’re no longer wanted in role.

[BumFLuff]

Opapayer said:

You haven t been made redundant, you re on a list with others who could also be made redundant. At least that s how it should work. Are there a number of you doing the same role who have been placed at risk, or are you the only one? That definition is by job title, pay grade and other factual parts of your employment, not whether you think you re better than the others, or do a couple of extra tasks too.

The package is likely to be fixed and defined in your employment contract. That s your first port of call to check the offer matches what s in there. It s fairly unlikely you ll get to negotiate a better package, that s usually severance terms for a more senior staff member who isn t being made redundant, just told they re no longer wanted in role.

Im the only one doing the role does that make a difference ?Its a big organisation but my manager been out ill for nearly a year. The people who made the decision have no clue what I do, the fact Im going has shocked alot of people. Part of me thinks Im better off out but Im also of an age I fear I will struggle to get another job. They said my tech skill set wasnt broad enough for there new operating model so seems it was skilled based decision.

[Opapayer]

BumFLuff said:

Im the only one doing the role does that make a difference ?Its a big organisation but my manager been out ill for nearly a year. The people who made the decision have no clue what I do, the fact Im going has shocked alot of people. Part of me thinks Im better off out but Im also of an age I fear I will struggle to get another job. They said my tech skill set wasnt broad enough for there new operating model so seems it was skilled based decision.

If you’re the only one then it’s pretty much nailed on that you’re on your way. If the role is no longer needed then it’s over. Doesn’t matter what the people who made the decision know about you or the role. The decision has been made. You’re looking at it from a more emotional personal perspective, they’re looking it at it dispassionately as a business decision. Other people being shocked is par for the course for redundancies I’m afraid. It’s just the way it is.

The way you’re talking about skillset suggests you’re beyond the “at risk” stage and you are definitely being made redundant. Whether you can find another suitable role within the business is something to consider. If not, it’s a case of getting your affairs in order and start the job hunt. You’re extremely unlikely to change their minds by pulling on heart strings.

I realise I’m being blunt here, but sometimes that’s needed to shock people into accepting things and to start sorting out the future, rather than railing against the present.

[ATG]

Except the OP isn't doing any of that. Read what he asked.

[Sway]

In the scenario you've given, I'd suggest whilst 'you don't ask, you don't get' is true, it's unlikely there'll be any movement.

Rightly or wrongly, they've crossed a line through your role as unneeded - so there's little incentive for them to worry about severance agreements/etc. Although iirc, above certain thresholds there's tax benefits for you and current employer to not make the payment 'redundancy' and instead severance... Certain conditions must be met, but they didn't seem onerous when I went through it.

Tbh, it rather sounds like you may well get a decent payout, then be able to start back with them being your first client for your new contracting firm... Seen that a few times where there's a disconnect and the 'wrong' role has been cut!

[Opapayer]

ATG said:

Except the OP isn't doing any of that. Read what he asked.

It was more related to his reply to me where he did the classic complaining about the people who made the decision not knowing what they’re doing, that his work colleagues are shocked aka they think the decision is wrong too and that he does more than the company realises, especially with his boss being away. None of this is a dig at the OP, it’s a well trodden path by those being made redundant. Shock ———> Denial ———-> Anger etc.

He’s in a situation that the company will be well practised in completing effectively, whereas he’s going through it for the first time. He’s better off just checking that what they’re doing is in line with his contract and working out his future, rather than trying to squeeze and other few grand out of a contractually defined redundancy package. He’s not negotiating a severance package.

[Alex Z]

Opapayer said:

It was more related to his reply to me where he did the classic complaining about the people who made the decision not knowing what they re doing,

No, he said they don’t know what *he* does

[GT03ROB]

BumFLuff said:

For first time in my career was put at risk today, had been there 5 years, senior vp IT at bank. The redundancy package was less than hoped but it was £15k more than statutory, plus I get notice paid etc 13 weeks. I read online I should negotiate the package and not accept the first offer, but also read you won't get far if its the initial offer is above statutory. What are others experience on this is it worth negotiating if above statutory or not ?

Thanks

How big is the company you work for? Your chances of negotiation may depend on that.

Anything above statutory is frankly a bonus. They will only offer above statutory in exchange for you signing a settlement agreement which basically waives your rights to sue them regarding the redundancy process. Refuse to sign & its back to statutory for you & you will then need to sue them for breaches of the statutory redundancy process. If its a decent sized company, good luck with that.

However bear in mind there is a huge difference between being put at risk & redundancy. Again depending on the size of company you could be put at risk when the risk of redundancy is negligible. Your employer is simply complying with the law.

Edited by GT03ROB on Thursday 21st May 20:57

[abzmike]

In the past I’ve been on the ‘put at risk’ list, but it didn’t get as far as being told what the package would be. I’d have thought that in the current climate anything beyond your contracted terms, especially for just 5 years service, is a decent offer. Of course you could always ask for more… at that point you don’t have much to lose.

[55palfers]

Have they opened the books for voluntary redundancy yet?

Binned off contractors?

Cancelled overtime?

[Opapayer]

Alex Z said:

Opapayer said:

It was more related to his reply to me where he did the classic complaining about the people who made the decision not knowing what they re doing,

No, he said they don t know what *he* does

Ok, amended below. Does it alter the general comment though? I’m not aiming to have a go at the OP, I’m trying to explain the harsh reality of where he is likely to be. Most companies when doing this know who’s going as soon as they start the process, they make the process for their desired outcome and make the redundancy terms fairly generous so there’s a nice carrot there. They’ll work within the whole legal framework. As much as the OP sees himself as critical to the business, those making the selection see him as equally expendable.

What he needs to do is check his contractual redundancy terms, see if he’s been offered better than them and just accept that’s what he’s getting and avoid the hassle of asking for more and getting turned down. Obviously, if he’s not been offered enough, then flag that up, but he should use his energy to network the hell out of his contacts to find / create a role elsewhere, not on fighting the inevitable.

Opapayer said:

ATG said:

Except the OP isn't doing any of that. Read what he asked.

It was more related to his reply to me where he did the classic complaining about the people who made the decision not knowing what he does, that his work colleagues are shocked aka they think the decision is wrong too and that he does more than the company realises, especially with his boss being away. None of this is a dig at the OP, it s a well trodden path by those being made redundant. Shock > Denial -> Anger etc.

He s in a situation that the company will be well practised in completing effectively, whereas he s going through it for the first time. He s better off just checking that what they re doing is in line with his contract and working out his future, rather than trying to squeeze and other few grand out of a contractually defined redundancy package. He s not negotiating a severance package.

[DukeDickson]

BumFLuff said:

Opapayer said:

You haven t been made redundant, you re on a list with others who could also be made redundant. At least that s how it should work. Are there a number of you doing the same role who have been placed at risk, or are you the only one? That definition is by job title, pay grade and other factual parts of your employment, not whether you think you re better than the others, or do a couple of extra tasks too.

The package is likely to be fixed and defined in your employment contract. That s your first port of call to check the offer matches what s in there. It s fairly unlikely you ll get to negotiate a better package, that s usually severance terms for a more senior staff member who isn t being made redundant, just told they re no longer wanted in role.

Im the only one doing the role does that make a difference ?Its a big organisation but my manager been out ill for nearly a year. The people who made the decision have no clue what I do, the fact Im going has shocked alot of people. Part of me thinks Im better off out but Im also of an age I fear I will struggle to get another job. They said my tech skill set wasnt broad enough for there new operating model so seems it was skilled based decision.

If you are 1 of 1 at risk, then whatever the supporting circumstances are don't matter. It's not you, it's the role they want gone, you just happen to be the resident of Derby who is being offered the speedboat.
You could ask for more, but unless you have sufficient valuable knowledge, you're getting more than stat, so you can ask, be told more and then take the outcome. Then you use your reasonable time to find another role.

Could be worse though:

https://youtu.be/AAVbc0nmcjc?si=L5d_TPLNXaF8dopX

[Jasandjules]

55palfers said:

Have they opened the books for voluntary redundancy yet?

Binned off contractors?

Cancelled overtime?

He appears to do a single role. And it is at risk. That would somewhat suggest a probable outcome would it not?

Please note that whilst he may be able to argue about the selection pool etc it is legal to put a single role at risk with a single individual undertaking that role, although it can be a challenge for the Company to do so fairly.

Therefore, it seems to me the best approach is to tell them you will accept X to go now without any fuss etc and will sign a settlement agreement....

[PushedDover]

At risk ? Sound pre-determined.

If so, then in breach and maybe worth documenting and preparing for a warning shot in the negotiations.