Vantage 4.7 Roadster Exhaust
Discussion
Morning all,
I'd started a thread a little while back about the options for getting some more noise out of a 4.7 Roadster and if that came with a bit more mid-range punch, that would be no bad thing. I know that the VH2 Vantage is a) heavy and b) fitted with an engine that needs revs. No bad thing as owners know as it means you actually have to drive it to get the best out of it.
I had just come from an R231 SL500 Merc with the twin turbo 4.7 V8 (M278) which produced 516ft/lbs of torque (700Nm!!). Power is more or less the same on paper but losing that torque was a real eye-opener.
I nipped into HWM, I talked to Quicksilver and did a fair bit of internet research (with some great advice from folk on here) but the chance of warning lights was flagged all the time. Nothing major and easily reset but the tech at HWM said they can put you in limp mode I didn't fancy that halfway up a Swiss alp.
I ended up sending Mike at BR a message. We hadn't spoken since I sold my DB9 over 10 years ago; for those that remember my car was their V12 development mule so was always being fiddled with it which had it's pros and cons. But this time I was a normal paying customer although I am extremely grateful they fitted me in at such short notice!
Mike told me that the Roadster intentionally has a quieter backbox than the coupe - this was news to me (and others) but explained why everybody's car sounded better than mine at idle. At 3-4krpm it was great but up to there, even with the fuse pulled, it was dire.
I needed bang for buck rather than just throwing the kitchen sink at it like I have done before so Mike recommended the 200 cell cats (unbaffled), and ECU remap. He also happened to have on the deck a unicorn Vantage S backbox, which really is the holy grail of Vantage sound. I jumped at the chance.
So that's what I drove out with and frankly the difference is astonishing. Power is said to be up through the range by ~25-30bhp but it's the difference in throttle response and mid-range pull that's transformed. I am still on my original single plate clutch and flywheel so don't have the fast revving response I'd like and this change has altered that for the better. A blip on downshifts to match the revs now actually happens without having to stamp on the pedal. Mid range with foot down at 50mph in top gear and the car pulls like it's a gear lower. I know extra sound is often confused for extra speed but this is definite. It doesn't give that turbo-pull but nothing NA would.
The ECU remap does the following (I wrote this down on my phone). Leans off the fuelling for more power. As standard the car compensates richer than it should to cool the cats - when you get the 200 cells, they don't need that cooling from such a rich mixture and so fuelling can be optimised. This has the very noticeable benefit that at 75ish with roof off and windows down, car was doing close to 30mpg! Which with Super at nearly 2 quid is very helpful.
The ignition curve is advanced for more power as per the 4.3 N400 which is how the 20bhp increase was increased for that car. No catalyst error warnings come up and no check-engine stuff which we've all had in V8 and V12 versions.
But in terms of driveability, the improvements are massive. I am hankering after the manifolds (who wouldn't!) but advice is see how I drive first of all. The extra breathing from the manifolds comes into its own after 5000rpm so I need to see how much time I spend with the engine up there. The last few hundred miles I have found myself pulling from lower revs in a higher gear and surfing on the extra torque so at the moment I am undecided. But the noise is epic and I have found myself using the quiet mode (valves closed at all engine speeds) a lot when in town or doing boring motorway miles. No drone at all by the way, just enjoying my Premium audio which is a vast improvement over the alleged 1000W Linn system I had in my old DB9.
I have a mate coming to stay in a couple of days so I will get him to do a video or two and see if I can upload them to here. Drive-by and static rev.
Right now, I couldn't be happier. My only issue is I have owned the car for precisely one month as of today and have done just over 1400 miles. I really need to put it away...
I'd started a thread a little while back about the options for getting some more noise out of a 4.7 Roadster and if that came with a bit more mid-range punch, that would be no bad thing. I know that the VH2 Vantage is a) heavy and b) fitted with an engine that needs revs. No bad thing as owners know as it means you actually have to drive it to get the best out of it.
I had just come from an R231 SL500 Merc with the twin turbo 4.7 V8 (M278) which produced 516ft/lbs of torque (700Nm!!). Power is more or less the same on paper but losing that torque was a real eye-opener.
I nipped into HWM, I talked to Quicksilver and did a fair bit of internet research (with some great advice from folk on here) but the chance of warning lights was flagged all the time. Nothing major and easily reset but the tech at HWM said they can put you in limp mode I didn't fancy that halfway up a Swiss alp.
I ended up sending Mike at BR a message. We hadn't spoken since I sold my DB9 over 10 years ago; for those that remember my car was their V12 development mule so was always being fiddled with it which had it's pros and cons. But this time I was a normal paying customer although I am extremely grateful they fitted me in at such short notice!
Mike told me that the Roadster intentionally has a quieter backbox than the coupe - this was news to me (and others) but explained why everybody's car sounded better than mine at idle. At 3-4krpm it was great but up to there, even with the fuse pulled, it was dire.
I needed bang for buck rather than just throwing the kitchen sink at it like I have done before so Mike recommended the 200 cell cats (unbaffled), and ECU remap. He also happened to have on the deck a unicorn Vantage S backbox, which really is the holy grail of Vantage sound. I jumped at the chance.
So that's what I drove out with and frankly the difference is astonishing. Power is said to be up through the range by ~25-30bhp but it's the difference in throttle response and mid-range pull that's transformed. I am still on my original single plate clutch and flywheel so don't have the fast revving response I'd like and this change has altered that for the better. A blip on downshifts to match the revs now actually happens without having to stamp on the pedal. Mid range with foot down at 50mph in top gear and the car pulls like it's a gear lower. I know extra sound is often confused for extra speed but this is definite. It doesn't give that turbo-pull but nothing NA would.
The ECU remap does the following (I wrote this down on my phone). Leans off the fuelling for more power. As standard the car compensates richer than it should to cool the cats - when you get the 200 cells, they don't need that cooling from such a rich mixture and so fuelling can be optimised. This has the very noticeable benefit that at 75ish with roof off and windows down, car was doing close to 30mpg! Which with Super at nearly 2 quid is very helpful.
The ignition curve is advanced for more power as per the 4.3 N400 which is how the 20bhp increase was increased for that car. No catalyst error warnings come up and no check-engine stuff which we've all had in V8 and V12 versions.
But in terms of driveability, the improvements are massive. I am hankering after the manifolds (who wouldn't!) but advice is see how I drive first of all. The extra breathing from the manifolds comes into its own after 5000rpm so I need to see how much time I spend with the engine up there. The last few hundred miles I have found myself pulling from lower revs in a higher gear and surfing on the extra torque so at the moment I am undecided. But the noise is epic and I have found myself using the quiet mode (valves closed at all engine speeds) a lot when in town or doing boring motorway miles. No drone at all by the way, just enjoying my Premium audio which is a vast improvement over the alleged 1000W Linn system I had in my old DB9.
I have a mate coming to stay in a couple of days so I will get him to do a video or two and see if I can upload them to here. Drive-by and static rev.
Right now, I couldn't be happier. My only issue is I have owned the car for precisely one month as of today and have done just over 1400 miles. I really need to put it away...
welcome back yeti! I read lots of your older posts! For once, I can repay the favour!:P
having had the both the manifolds and the lightweight clutch/flywheel package from Mike at BR but at different times, I can confirm that the most notable improvement for you will be the clutch/flywheel package. Thats where I would spend my money next if I were in your shoes!
having had the both the manifolds and the lightweight clutch/flywheel package from Mike at BR but at different times, I can confirm that the most notable improvement for you will be the clutch/flywheel package. Thats where I would spend my money next if I were in your shoes!
You're not the only one to say that.
However I can't make myself replace a perfectly good single plate clutch! I don't find it heavy or awkward and it seems to have plenty of life left in it even at 43k miles. Yes I'd like the engine to spin up a bit faster but that's kind of it.
The second it starts to show signs of wear, then it's a no-brainer but I think I may have one of the ones that lasts well outside expectations...
However I can't make myself replace a perfectly good single plate clutch! I don't find it heavy or awkward and it seems to have plenty of life left in it even at 43k miles. Yes I'd like the engine to spin up a bit faster but that's kind of it.
The second it starts to show signs of wear, then it's a no-brainer but I think I may have one of the ones that lasts well outside expectations...
Very interesting to read. I, like you, have a 4.7 Roadster and think it's too quiet at idle and at low rpm. When I step into the throttle it sounds great, but just cruising it's not enough exhaust note for me. I've even double checked that the fuse is pulled. I don't want to change the sound of my car, it's great, I just want more of it! My previous car was a 911 with a Fister exhaust that was perfect. I realize an Aston is more of a GT than a sports car, but I want the exhaust to be more like a sports car.
I did exactly the same, checking the fuse was pulled. Was so disappointed to find it was…
Maybe consider the baffled cats? My car is wonderfully sonorous now to say the least but it might not be for everyone… that would give some noise and the increased performance.
Either that or try a coupe backbox?
Maybe consider the baffled cats? My car is wonderfully sonorous now to say the least but it might not be for everyone… that would give some noise and the increased performance.
Either that or try a coupe backbox?
There is a back box on the well known auction site at the moment that s described as Aston Martin Vantage V12 Rear Exhaust Silener Genuine T-03-21-00
Can t tell if it looks like it is from a VH2 platform car, or is indeed from a v12. From my memory the 4.7 S and V12 are the same rear backbox, but obviously look into it, if the above is of interest. Seems reasonably priced if it is what it says it is. Might be a good option for someone looking for a similar outcome to Yeti s.
Can post a link, as I think that breaks the forum rules.
Can t tell if it looks like it is from a VH2 platform car, or is indeed from a v12. From my memory the 4.7 S and V12 are the same rear backbox, but obviously look into it, if the above is of interest. Seems reasonably priced if it is what it says it is. Might be a good option for someone looking for a similar outcome to Yeti s.
Can post a link, as I think that breaks the forum rules.
Looks like it's off a VH V12. The gearbox oil cooler will be in the way of this fitting on a V8V. I did see a post by Aston installations about this................
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...... Hold the line caller.......
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Took me a while to find but here you are. Can be modified but I see they are now offering something else.
Facebook clicky
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.......................
...... Hold the line caller.......
...............................
Took me a while to find but here you are. Can be modified but I see they are now offering something else.
Facebook clicky
drac said:
Looks like it's off a VH V12. The gearbox oil cooler will be in the way of this fitting on a V8V. I did see a post by Aston installations about this................
.......................
.......................
...... Hold the line caller.......
...............................
Took me a while to find but here you are. Can be modified but I see they are now offering something else.
Facebook clicky
Arh yes, good observation and definitely worth noting. It seems it s possible to fit to a 7 speed car but not a 6 speed (manual or sport shift) .......................
.......................
...... Hold the line caller.......
...............................
Took me a while to find but here you are. Can be modified but I see they are now offering something else.
Facebook clicky
Detailed in this video (which is worthy for f a full watch, but this is specifically mention around the 4 minute 35 second mark:
I've been reading more on this, you must have a 2009 or 2010 if you used the 200 cell cats. I have a 2011 which has a different cat configuration, I have 2 cats for each bank. There's no 02 sensors on the aft cats, so I can remove those and replace them with plain pipes. It seems that might be the best way to start and then if it's still too quiet, think about mufflers. Removing the secondary cats should increase the sound volume, without changing the sound tone.
I currently have a 2007 4.3 V8 and change the standard muffler to a N420 item (part number AD23 5230 AE) which i was lucky to find on ebay, and the sound is v nice being louder at idle and when on it but not much different when cruising.
On my previous 2012.25 V8 i replaced the secondary cats with delete pipes and the muffler with a genuine sports item and that was very loud
As mentioned previously the small V12VS muffler will not fit manual cars as the oil cooler is in the way
AD23 5230 was also used on the V12V
On my previous 2012.25 V8 i replaced the secondary cats with delete pipes and the muffler with a genuine sports item and that was very loud
As mentioned previously the small V12VS muffler will not fit manual cars as the oil cooler is in the way
AD23 5230 was also used on the V12V
How about some more exhaust sound recordings being posted, for us to hear the differences?
I have not found it easy to capture a realistic recorded sound with the car in motion, but it must be possible.
A microphone set inside sponge (trying to avoid wind noise) located on the back bumper was one of my attempts, but still the recorded result was not a true sound.
Certainly the OEM 4.7 does seem strangely subdued. In the cabin I could not even hear any sound increase when opening the exhaust valves by remote. All sorted though and there is now a lovely purposeful growl at idle after cold starts (tick over revs are then slightly higher). Exhaust valve open/close can now clearly be heard from inside the car.
DK570 said:
I've been reading more on this, you must have a 2009 or 2010 if you used the 200 cell cats. I have a 2011 which has a different cat configuration, I have 2 cats for each bank. - - -
Do you therefore have a total of 3 cats for each bank?
I know that from (some point) in 2010, new regulations required an additional cat in each manifold. Cats only work properly when hot, so by having them in the manifold, they become hot sooner.
bignoise said:
I currently have a 2007 4.3 V8 and change the standard muffler to a N420 item (part number AD23 5230 AE) which i was lucky to find on ebay, and the sound is v nice being louder at idle and when on it but not much different when cruising. - - -
When exhaust valves are open, do different silencers/mufflers make any difference?
I thought open valves then make the exhaust gasses bypass the baffles inside the silencer/muffler.
Dewi 2 said:
When exhaust valves are open, do different silencers/mufflers make any difference?
I thought open valves then make the exhaust gasses bypass the baffles inside the silencer/muffler.
Absolutely they do. My '15 V8V had the standard backbox that was quite quiet, even with the valves open. I've recently had an 'S' backbox fitted and the difference is very, very noticeable - to the point I am grateful I also had a 3-way switch added to I can use "stealth" mode if I or my passenger is listening to the music on a longer run. And even then, the "stealth" mode is way louder than the original non-'S' backbox with the valves open.I thought open valves then make the exhaust gasses bypass the baffles inside the silencer/muffler.
I don't think the valves completely bypass the baffles; they just let the exhaust take a different route inside it.
Dewi 2 said:
Do you therefore have a total of 3 cats for each bank?
I know that from (some point) in 2010, new regulations required an additional cat in each manifold. Cats only work properly when hot, so by having them in the manifold, they become hot sooner.
Pretty sure the secondaries are only required for some EU countries where emissions are measured from cold start, the second pair of cats clean up the exhaust more from cold. In UK the MOT emissions test is done on a warm engine. Hence the popularity of a secondary decat for more noise, whilst still meeting the UK emissions test.
markcoopers said:
I have a 2014 4.7 N430 roadster .anyone got a clue what cat and back box combo i would expect to find on the stock car?
I do venture past 5000rpm as i love an NA motor ..my previous car was a V8 SLK that was not known for it s appetite for revs
There should be a part number located on the backbox. See if it starts BG or 6G. I do venture past 5000rpm as i love an NA motor ..my previous car was a V8 SLK that was not known for it s appetite for revs
I’ll leave the above here for now, but I’ve asked for a more comprehensive matrix and challenged the 4.7 vs 4.7S configuration des, as these appear the wrong way around. It’s going to take a little more time to complete the necessary due diligence and may still have some inconsistency/ inaccuracy but I’ll post here when complete.
DK570 said:
I've been reading more on this, you must have a 2009 or 2010 if you used the 200 cell cats. I have a 2011 which has a different cat configuration, I have 2 cats for each bank.
My car is August 2010; usually that means it’s a 2011 model year but nope, last one off the line! So that helped me out hugely.
When I thought it was a 2011 MY, my original plan was as you say, get rid of the secondaries. Good bang for buck option but I’d still have to worry about check-engine lights according to the HWM service guy.
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