People drowning in the hot weather
Discussion
There is always a spate of tragic drownings, whenever we have a heatwave. News reports seem to invariably major on a factor they call ‘cold shock’, which supposedly immobilises the unfortunate individual and/or kills them outright.
To me this factor is of limited significance, and continuing to repeat it is probably harming any chances of reducing the number of fatalities. Vast numbers of people regularly subject themselves to greater temperature differences without ill effect. The deaths are clearly much more likely to be due to more prosaic reasons:
1. Can’t swim (at all or very well).
2. Unexpected depth (see 1. above).
3. No easy way out once in - it’s surprisingly difficult to climb high banks, get back into boats, walk up shingle with large breakers etc.
4. Unexpected water conditions (other than temperature) - waves, tides, turbulence, currents etc.
5. No water survival skills other than basic swimming strokes.
There are also others, and I imagine many of us have experienced situations in water that were a bit too close for comfort.
There seems to be surprisingly little information given to people these days on how to save themselves - I am sure there was a lot more when I was at school - and there used to be lots more encouragement for adults to learn to swim.
This RNLI campaign is an exception:
https://rnli.org/safety/float
To me this factor is of limited significance, and continuing to repeat it is probably harming any chances of reducing the number of fatalities. Vast numbers of people regularly subject themselves to greater temperature differences without ill effect. The deaths are clearly much more likely to be due to more prosaic reasons:
1. Can’t swim (at all or very well).
2. Unexpected depth (see 1. above).
3. No easy way out once in - it’s surprisingly difficult to climb high banks, get back into boats, walk up shingle with large breakers etc.
4. Unexpected water conditions (other than temperature) - waves, tides, turbulence, currents etc.
5. No water survival skills other than basic swimming strokes.
There are also others, and I imagine many of us have experienced situations in water that were a bit too close for comfort.
There seems to be surprisingly little information given to people these days on how to save themselves - I am sure there was a lot more when I was at school - and there used to be lots more encouragement for adults to learn to swim.
This RNLI campaign is an exception:
https://rnli.org/safety/float
Cold shock is a real thing. You are in 30c air, body is hot - you are sweating.
You jump into <10c water. Your body first tells you to breathe - if there is water in your mouth or not - you are gasping in massive gulps of water.
Seconds later your blood rushes to your organs and core. Your muscles become useless as they are now starved of oxygen.
You end up thrashing around for 60 seconds gulping in water and even strong swimmers just fade.
There is a reason why the Army train you to handle cold water.
You jump into <10c water. Your body first tells you to breathe - if there is water in your mouth or not - you are gasping in massive gulps of water.
Seconds later your blood rushes to your organs and core. Your muscles become useless as they are now starved of oxygen.
You end up thrashing around for 60 seconds gulping in water and even strong swimmers just fade.
There is a reason why the Army train you to handle cold water.
Cold water shock really is a thing, especially somewhere like the UK where air temp and water temps lag significantly.
A friend of mine lost his teenage son in a shallow lake many years ago, same conditions. Fit, healthy, good swimmer.
The reason it spikes it hot weather is because people don't jump into various random bodies of water to cool down when it's cold out. It's that simple.
A friend of mine lost his teenage son in a shallow lake many years ago, same conditions. Fit, healthy, good swimmer.
The reason it spikes it hot weather is because people don't jump into various random bodies of water to cool down when it's cold out. It's that simple.
gotoPzero said:
Cold shock is a real thing. You are in 30c air, body is hot - you are sweating.
You jump into <10c water. Your body first tells you to breathe - if there is water in your mouth or not - you are gasping in massive gulps of water.
Seconds later your blood rushes to your organs and core. Your muscles become useless as they are now starved of oxygen.
You end up thrashing around for 60 seconds gulping in water and even strong swimmers just fade.
There is a reason why the Army train you to handle cold water.
It really is and a lot of these "lakes" are actually quarry pits that are often filled by deep aquifers and the water temp is way below the sea or or rivers even in very high temps You jump into <10c water. Your body first tells you to breathe - if there is water in your mouth or not - you are gasping in massive gulps of water.
Seconds later your blood rushes to your organs and core. Your muscles become useless as they are now starved of oxygen.
You end up thrashing around for 60 seconds gulping in water and even strong swimmers just fade.
There is a reason why the Army train you to handle cold water.
They are absolutely lethal
Earthdweller said:
IIRC Derbyshire police got a lot of criticism a few years back when they poured black dye into quarry pits to stop people entering the water during a heatwave
They're doing it again this year:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86d20dz320o
Old quarry with very alkaline water (similar PH level to bleach, apparently) yet people jump in as it's pretty and blue and it looks great on Insta/TikTok/other moronic social media platforms.
So, imagine the cold water shock effect as described by gotoPzero above. But in a giant vat of Domestos.
I can think of better ways to go.
Edit: inserted correct link... it's been a long day.
Edited by Faust66 on Thursday 28th May 19:27
as a kid we used to swim most days in the local sand quarry, the local baths cost too much,
we all kept an eye on each other, no one died, even when a 4 foot pike was spotted,
I have fallen into water 3 or 4 times once going through ice, once stepping off a lock gate falling about 15 foot,
I suppose my time swimming as a kit saved me?
local kids seem to like swimming in the canal, every now and then one comes to greif,
we all kept an eye on each other, no one died, even when a 4 foot pike was spotted,
I have fallen into water 3 or 4 times once going through ice, once stepping off a lock gate falling about 15 foot,
I suppose my time swimming as a kit saved me?
local kids seem to like swimming in the canal, every now and then one comes to greif,
Agree, it's difficult to fully understand if you've any experience of getting into an open body of water in the UK. Be that the sea or a lake. Logically it doesn't make that much sense.
But you can't account for teenage bravado, let alone teenage logic and if said youngun decides it'd be cool to just jump in from a cold start or swim in the river like the poor lad that died near us last year, it makes a bit more sense in a biological context
My kids (12, 14 and 17) have been told in no uncertain terms how this works, ie. You get into bother you die horribly; but nothing would suprise me.
Either way, it's absolutely fkn tragic.
But you can't account for teenage bravado, let alone teenage logic and if said youngun decides it'd be cool to just jump in from a cold start or swim in the river like the poor lad that died near us last year, it makes a bit more sense in a biological context
My kids (12, 14 and 17) have been told in no uncertain terms how this works, ie. You get into bother you die horribly; but nothing would suprise me.
Either way, it's absolutely fkn tragic.
bobtail4x4 said:
as a kid we used to swim most days in the local sand quarry, the local baths cost too much,
we all kept an eye on each other, no one died, even when a 4 foot pike was spotted,
I have fallen into water 3 or 4 times once going through ice, once stepping off a lock gate falling about 15 foot,
I suppose my time swimming as a kit saved me?
local kids seem to like swimming in the canal, every now and then one comes to greif,
I must admit, that was pretty much my view on this. I’ve been in some pretty cold water (Scottish Lochs etc.) on very warm days and never had a problem with gasping in water - in fact I always thought that the ‘Dive Reflux’ prevented this (maybe it doesn’t work for everyone?).we all kept an eye on each other, no one died, even when a 4 foot pike was spotted,
I have fallen into water 3 or 4 times once going through ice, once stepping off a lock gate falling about 15 foot,
I suppose my time swimming as a kit saved me?
local kids seem to like swimming in the canal, every now and then one comes to greif,
Additionally, many of the deaths have not been in deep quarries. Park lakes, rivers and canals and UK coastal waters are generally not all that cold in spring and summer.
I still think that more general advice on how to swim reasonably safety, would be of use.
hondajack85 said:
Thanx to the media and governments fanning hysteria ,the only things to worry about are foreigners,crime by foreigners,anti semetism and a terrorist incident.
The average person now thinks nothing is a danger if none of these things are involved.
That's a hell of a shoehorn,congratulations.The average person now thinks nothing is a danger if none of these things are involved.
I was born in 1970 and I spent my early childhood and teens thinking I was completely invincible,don't think it is a recent thing.
My kids go paddle boarding regularly out at sea. Have done it for years and currently going every evening taking advantage of the warm weather.
They are strong swimmers and wear life jackets.
Biggest lesson I taught them was to be wary of rip tides, recognising when you are in one and what to do. If going swimming at sea it is worthwhile looking up if you are unaware.....
They are strong swimmers and wear life jackets.
Biggest lesson I taught them was to be wary of rip tides, recognising when you are in one and what to do. If going swimming at sea it is worthwhile looking up if you are unaware.....
I was thinking about this earlier, how has swimming training at school changed over the years? When I was in primary school every week or so we'd be bussed to a school nearby with a pool and basically forced to learn to swim 
Skills at the end varied from one guy doggy paddling a width to quite a few doing lengths with ease. I think I was inbetween.
I can quite imagine kids with not great swimming skills getting into serious trouble by following others because they don't want to look like a pussy.
Skills at the end varied from one guy doggy paddling a width to quite a few doing lengths with ease. I think I was inbetween.I can quite imagine kids with not great swimming skills getting into serious trouble by following others because they don't want to look like a pussy.
I wonder what the percentage of incidents are of the type one person gets in trouble and inexperienced but determined people jump in to save them and find themselves overwhelmed.
I remember a terrible case, not a hot weather example admittedly when 3 people died after 2 bystanders tried to save the dog owner who'd jumped in to rescue her dog. The dog survived.
I remember a terrible case, not a hot weather example admittedly when 3 people died after 2 bystanders tried to save the dog owner who'd jumped in to rescue her dog. The dog survived.
Gareth79 said:
I was thinking about this earlier, how has swimming training at school changed over the years? When I was in primary school every week or so we'd be bussed to a school nearby with a pool and basically forced to learn to swim Skills at the end varied from one guy doggy paddling a width to quite a few doing lengths with ease. I think I was inbetween.
I can quite imagine kids with not great swimming skills getting into serious trouble by following others.
i used to go to swimming lessons with my school. (Late 70s through the 1980s). Skills at the end varied from one guy doggy paddling a width to quite a few doing lengths with ease. I think I was inbetween.I can quite imagine kids with not great swimming skills getting into serious trouble by following others.
My kids had no swimming lessons with school. But living close to a beach we got them lessons from when they about a year old. They got bored of swimming lengths so then started underwater hockey and my lad is still playing. Both strong swimmers now - an important life skill.
Basically the school provides no swimming experience in our local area.
Warhavernet said:
I wonder what the percentage of incidents are of the type one person gets in trouble and inexperienced but determined people jump in to save them and find themselves overwhelmed.
I remember a terrible case, not a hot weather example admittedly when 3 people died after 2 bystanders tried to save the dog owner who'd jumped in to rescue her dog. The dog survived.
The dog scenario is reasonably common, never go in after a dog most of the time they will figure it out or call 999 and ask for the coastguard. Whilst they aren’t there for animals they will launch the RNLI as they know it will lead to someone trying some heroics and possibly failing. I remember a terrible case, not a hot weather example admittedly when 3 people died after 2 bystanders tried to save the dog owner who'd jumped in to rescue her dog. The dog survived.
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