E60 BMW M5- 10 Cylinders, 5 Litres, 1 Questionable Decision
Discussion
...only joking, of course it was a solidly positive decision!
After many years of practical performance - MK5 R32, W204 C63 Saloon, Panamera 4s, W213 E63s, i sold the E63 after 4 amazing years to renovate a property. Lusting after the next 'need to scratch the itch' car, i bought a Mercedes G400d as the G Class was the engineering marvel that i needed to experience. I've had it for two years and alongside another car i use it often and love it - the diesel is the right engine for this application and despite not being a drivers dream, it is a car that will always make you feel special driving it.
The (first world) issue of course, is that driving around in a 2.5tonne SUV doesnt quite tick the boxes of a proper car enthusiast. And unlike many other G Class owners, im not wealthy enough to have several other high performance cars to satisfy that itch.
I've looked many times at changing the G to something like an FF (which deepdown i still am), or a GTC4 Lusso, maybe an F12. But i know i'd miss the practicality of the G and just the way it feels and drives. So then i considered a 'cheap' ish modern classic that i could run along side it if i was clever in what i chose.
For months i've scanned the usual classified and auction platforms, considering B7 RS4, another C63, E39 M5, Quattroporte, etc. But deep down i knew i had already made up my mind long before even opening the classified. I had made up my mind back in 2005 when i was 15 and the E60 M5 was released.. That car took my attention way more than the Ferrari's and Porsches that most other teenage boys lusted after (I clearly was a bit of a wierd teenager).
After reading probably every single M5 /S85 engine related thread on here, M5 World, Facebook groups etc (Shout out to TheAngryDog in particular for his outstanding resilience with his!) and watching many youtube videos on the car, i decided life was too short and i needed to find one.
As the car was going to be one i'd actually drive frequently ish, i didnt want a low mileage garage queen that i'd drive off all the premium i'd potentially have paid in the first place. I also wanted to find a car that had a lot of the big ticket items done.. So mileage and in some cases spec and options where very much secondary. The must haves - it needed to be Interlagos Blue, or Indianapolis Red only. Both actually quite hard to find.
So the search started. a few months into my search, i came across the Indianpolis Red E61 Wagon that was up for auction on this platform. Despite not needed a wagon i thought that is THE one. Spoke with the owner on the phone, put a few bids in.. and then watched it climb, climb, climb.. it settled on just under £40k. For a car that was a low spec wagon, with almost none of the preventative work done on the car, i nearly fell off my seat that night with that closing bid - i bet the seller was a happy man.
So that wasn't meant to be. A week later - i found an Interlagos Blue saloon (my first choice colour anyway) with a black interior on another popular Car Auction platform. It photographed and came across in videos excellent considering the age. I did a lot of homework on the particular car, and eagerly waited for the auction to start - resulting in my naturally bidding against a few others and winning the car. First time i've ever bought a car at auction so i was just as excited as i was petrified. I was going to be the owner of an E60 M5. I couldn't believe it!
The car in question then:
2005 car so cheaper tax bracket
69k miles
Interlagos blue
Black, unmarked leather which appears to have worn well
Anthracite headlining
Adaptive headlights
BMW HiFi
Light Package
Heads Up Display
Sunroof
LCI Front and Rear lights
Condition wise:
Front bumper is totally peppered in stone chips (defo been painted in the past)
Bonnet has lacquer issues, defo signs to me its been under a car cover for a while
Passenger door mirror base has gone crusty
Otherwise no nasty scratches, dings or dents and panel gaps all look good with no sign of foul play
Maintenance wise, i have invoices for:
ACL Conrod bearings
High pressure vanos line
Clutch, Flywheel
SMG Pump
Discs, Pads and sensors all around
Battery
replacement CCC unit
General servicing invoices
My future considerations on the above:
Injectors
Throttle actuators
My knowledge on these cars is growing but im no means an expert. i do understand they can sulk quite easily and throw lights up for fun so i've invested in a Foxwell code reader whcih i have a feeling il get my monies worth with. Redish Motorsport will likely be my local specialist (im in South Wales) and speaking to them today, I should just chill and enjoy the car without panicking myself already in the £2.7k bill for injectors to be changed.
Thoughts on the car
after quite a rubbish week at home last week. i opted to do the 6hr round trip and collect the car myself. I hired a trailer and planned to take the G wagon with me to collect it.
The car was bought from one of the most prestigious postcodes in the country which was actually quite the eye opener, but the seller was a true gentleman and hopefully someone i stay in contact going forward. He was honest in the fact the car hadn't been used all that much recently, and the honesty lined up in my eyes to the fact the car hadnt had bumpers painted and other items masked. I had to call him out on the frankly awful choice of tyres (accelera) but he sheepishly told me as he didnt use it much and was looking to sell it he just put those on. Both fobs start the car but dont lock or unlock the car, these fobs have rechargeable batteries but i feel both are dead so i'm going to start with changing a battery first. Otherwise the car behaved on the limited test drive i had around the private roads of his neighbourhood.
From cold ( i say cold, it was still nearly 30deg outside) It started with no issues and didnt hunt around on idle. On idle it was underwhelming noise wise which i expected, but even driving off his drive.. its quite a hard thing to describe of the feeling you get knowing theres a 10 cylinder engine gently grunting under the movement of your foot, while your in an interior that resembles a taxi from the mid 00's, driving around an estate that could easily fit into Beverley Hills.
Got it strapped up after a nice chat with the owner and headed home, with no issues. The trailer was a big old unit and i had to live in the left mirror to ensure i didnt bring anyone elses car home with me, but the G didnt even break a sweat pulling it around.
So the car is sandwiched on the drive between the G and my company car and i am absolutely smitten. I took it for its first proper drive saturday night and it exceeded my expectations in how it builds its pace. Chasing the redline is addictive but the speed it gathers is laugh out fast, i didnt get out of third gear before doing daft speed on an empty dual. Having had a 730bhp E63s and a 6.2 C63 in the past, this still astonished me. Apart of me thought the small torque number would be an issue but it felt ample. And as many others have said online, honestly the SMG suits it. Mentally if i keep reminding myself its a manual box, and treat it as such, its perfectly fine. Manually shifting in auto mode is a must as it hunts and holds gears all over the place otherwise, but in M mode, a find lifting off when changing its smooth, and flat shifting is the most violent. Nice to have a choice i guess.
So the the to do's
change the tyres to PS4s
Mr12volt Carplay module
good detail and paintwork freshen up
get any codes read and wiped and see if it throws anything else up
sort the fobs out - fob batteries will be first point of call
keep it OEM for now - i planned on exhaust mods but right now i just want to enjoy it!
if you made it this far thanks, and il update in the course.
Cheers!
After many years of practical performance - MK5 R32, W204 C63 Saloon, Panamera 4s, W213 E63s, i sold the E63 after 4 amazing years to renovate a property. Lusting after the next 'need to scratch the itch' car, i bought a Mercedes G400d as the G Class was the engineering marvel that i needed to experience. I've had it for two years and alongside another car i use it often and love it - the diesel is the right engine for this application and despite not being a drivers dream, it is a car that will always make you feel special driving it.
The (first world) issue of course, is that driving around in a 2.5tonne SUV doesnt quite tick the boxes of a proper car enthusiast. And unlike many other G Class owners, im not wealthy enough to have several other high performance cars to satisfy that itch.
I've looked many times at changing the G to something like an FF (which deepdown i still am), or a GTC4 Lusso, maybe an F12. But i know i'd miss the practicality of the G and just the way it feels and drives. So then i considered a 'cheap' ish modern classic that i could run along side it if i was clever in what i chose.
For months i've scanned the usual classified and auction platforms, considering B7 RS4, another C63, E39 M5, Quattroporte, etc. But deep down i knew i had already made up my mind long before even opening the classified. I had made up my mind back in 2005 when i was 15 and the E60 M5 was released.. That car took my attention way more than the Ferrari's and Porsches that most other teenage boys lusted after (I clearly was a bit of a wierd teenager).
After reading probably every single M5 /S85 engine related thread on here, M5 World, Facebook groups etc (Shout out to TheAngryDog in particular for his outstanding resilience with his!) and watching many youtube videos on the car, i decided life was too short and i needed to find one.
As the car was going to be one i'd actually drive frequently ish, i didnt want a low mileage garage queen that i'd drive off all the premium i'd potentially have paid in the first place. I also wanted to find a car that had a lot of the big ticket items done.. So mileage and in some cases spec and options where very much secondary. The must haves - it needed to be Interlagos Blue, or Indianapolis Red only. Both actually quite hard to find.
So the search started. a few months into my search, i came across the Indianpolis Red E61 Wagon that was up for auction on this platform. Despite not needed a wagon i thought that is THE one. Spoke with the owner on the phone, put a few bids in.. and then watched it climb, climb, climb.. it settled on just under £40k. For a car that was a low spec wagon, with almost none of the preventative work done on the car, i nearly fell off my seat that night with that closing bid - i bet the seller was a happy man.
So that wasn't meant to be. A week later - i found an Interlagos Blue saloon (my first choice colour anyway) with a black interior on another popular Car Auction platform. It photographed and came across in videos excellent considering the age. I did a lot of homework on the particular car, and eagerly waited for the auction to start - resulting in my naturally bidding against a few others and winning the car. First time i've ever bought a car at auction so i was just as excited as i was petrified. I was going to be the owner of an E60 M5. I couldn't believe it!
The car in question then:
2005 car so cheaper tax bracket
69k miles
Interlagos blue
Black, unmarked leather which appears to have worn well
Anthracite headlining
Adaptive headlights
BMW HiFi
Light Package
Heads Up Display
Sunroof
LCI Front and Rear lights
Condition wise:
Front bumper is totally peppered in stone chips (defo been painted in the past)
Bonnet has lacquer issues, defo signs to me its been under a car cover for a while
Passenger door mirror base has gone crusty
Otherwise no nasty scratches, dings or dents and panel gaps all look good with no sign of foul play
Maintenance wise, i have invoices for:
ACL Conrod bearings
High pressure vanos line
Clutch, Flywheel
SMG Pump
Discs, Pads and sensors all around
Battery
replacement CCC unit
General servicing invoices
My future considerations on the above:
Injectors
Throttle actuators
My knowledge on these cars is growing but im no means an expert. i do understand they can sulk quite easily and throw lights up for fun so i've invested in a Foxwell code reader whcih i have a feeling il get my monies worth with. Redish Motorsport will likely be my local specialist (im in South Wales) and speaking to them today, I should just chill and enjoy the car without panicking myself already in the £2.7k bill for injectors to be changed.
Thoughts on the car
after quite a rubbish week at home last week. i opted to do the 6hr round trip and collect the car myself. I hired a trailer and planned to take the G wagon with me to collect it.
The car was bought from one of the most prestigious postcodes in the country which was actually quite the eye opener, but the seller was a true gentleman and hopefully someone i stay in contact going forward. He was honest in the fact the car hadn't been used all that much recently, and the honesty lined up in my eyes to the fact the car hadnt had bumpers painted and other items masked. I had to call him out on the frankly awful choice of tyres (accelera) but he sheepishly told me as he didnt use it much and was looking to sell it he just put those on. Both fobs start the car but dont lock or unlock the car, these fobs have rechargeable batteries but i feel both are dead so i'm going to start with changing a battery first. Otherwise the car behaved on the limited test drive i had around the private roads of his neighbourhood.
From cold ( i say cold, it was still nearly 30deg outside) It started with no issues and didnt hunt around on idle. On idle it was underwhelming noise wise which i expected, but even driving off his drive.. its quite a hard thing to describe of the feeling you get knowing theres a 10 cylinder engine gently grunting under the movement of your foot, while your in an interior that resembles a taxi from the mid 00's, driving around an estate that could easily fit into Beverley Hills.
Got it strapped up after a nice chat with the owner and headed home, with no issues. The trailer was a big old unit and i had to live in the left mirror to ensure i didnt bring anyone elses car home with me, but the G didnt even break a sweat pulling it around.
So the car is sandwiched on the drive between the G and my company car and i am absolutely smitten. I took it for its first proper drive saturday night and it exceeded my expectations in how it builds its pace. Chasing the redline is addictive but the speed it gathers is laugh out fast, i didnt get out of third gear before doing daft speed on an empty dual. Having had a 730bhp E63s and a 6.2 C63 in the past, this still astonished me. Apart of me thought the small torque number would be an issue but it felt ample. And as many others have said online, honestly the SMG suits it. Mentally if i keep reminding myself its a manual box, and treat it as such, its perfectly fine. Manually shifting in auto mode is a must as it hunts and holds gears all over the place otherwise, but in M mode, a find lifting off when changing its smooth, and flat shifting is the most violent. Nice to have a choice i guess.
So the the to do's
change the tyres to PS4s
Mr12volt Carplay module
good detail and paintwork freshen up
get any codes read and wiped and see if it throws anything else up
sort the fobs out - fob batteries will be first point of call
keep it OEM for now - i planned on exhaust mods but right now i just want to enjoy it!
if you made it this far thanks, and il update in the course.
Cheers!
Edited by irfan1712 on Monday 1st June 15:53
Welcome to E60 M5 ownership. The day before your purchase was the last day you had any motoring issues to worry about LOL. I jest - a well maintained E60 M5 is absolutely fine.
I saw your post on FB as it happens - I am the chap who suggested replace the key fob batteries if you had comfort access, but checking the spec of your car it would appear that it doesn't. Replacing the batteries in the fob should work. It could also be the diversity antenna, but the only way to test that is with a key you know will unlock the car.
The torque figure is fine as you've discovered - it's not low, it's just higher up the rev range due to the nature of the engine.
Have you managed to source injectors? Last time I checked they were unavailable again. An alternative is to use E9x M3 injectors instead and have a map made to suit as there are some minor differences between the V10 and V8 injectors.
Otherwise, enjoy the car!
I saw your post on FB as it happens - I am the chap who suggested replace the key fob batteries if you had comfort access, but checking the spec of your car it would appear that it doesn't. Replacing the batteries in the fob should work. It could also be the diversity antenna, but the only way to test that is with a key you know will unlock the car.
The torque figure is fine as you've discovered - it's not low, it's just higher up the rev range due to the nature of the engine.
Have you managed to source injectors? Last time I checked they were unavailable again. An alternative is to use E9x M3 injectors instead and have a map made to suit as there are some minor differences between the V10 and V8 injectors.
Otherwise, enjoy the car!
wolfracesonic said:
I ve said this before on here I think about V10 M5s, they re like some blonde Goddess sat at the the bar in some swanky London hotel; you know you shouldn t, you know it s going to cost and you know it ll end badly but yer do! Silverstone II ones are faster btw
Yes, they are 
TheAngryDog said:
wolfracesonic said:
I ve said this before on here I think about V10 M5s, they re like some blonde Goddess sat at the the bar in some swanky London hotel; you know you shouldn t, you know it s going to cost and you know it ll end badly but yer do! Silverstone II ones are faster btw
Yes, they are Though recent shyentiffic studies have shown Silverstone II Tourings are even faster…
wolfracesonic said:
TheAngryDog said:
wolfracesonic said:
I ve said this before on here I think about V10 M5s, they re like some blonde Goddess sat at the the bar in some swanky London hotel; you know you shouldn t, you know it s going to cost and you know it ll end badly but yer do! Silverstone II ones are faster btw
Yes, they are Though recent shyentiffic studies have shown Silverstone II Tourings are even faster
Lovely car. Great colour.
I had 3 of them in fairly quick succession when they first came out. First one was a very early car in black, one of the first in the country, followed six months later by an Interlagos Blue one and then, when they came out, replaced by an estate also in Interlagos Blue. Deffo the quickest colour is blue
.
You are quite right to drive them in manual mode only. I drove all of mine like I stole them, including a few trackdays, and never had any bother at all. In fact all 3 were 100% reliable while I had them.
The biggest thing for me was the software changes between the three cars. BMW progressively softened them off especially the gearbox mapping. The first one was a bloody animal with the diff nose smacking the bottom of the car on the fastest gearshift speeds at full chat it was feral. My BMW dealer was able to disable the top speed limiter at which point the car would run up to high 180mph speeds ridiculously easily. I never got a chance for a proper V-Max run but there were lots of people claiming 200MPH was possible. It was one of the best and most fun cars I’ve ever had. By the time I got to the estate it was quite disappointing in comparison, the extra weight was noticeable, the software was much more refined and the speed limiter was now tamper proof
.
So if yours is an early one then it should be a belter. Good luck with the fuel economy
I regularly got low teens over a full tank and even at a steady motorway cruise it wouldn’t beat 20mpg. It was a bit of a shock after an E39M5 which proceeded the E60, the E39 is not a paragon of virtue but it was a lot better.
I had 3 of them in fairly quick succession when they first came out. First one was a very early car in black, one of the first in the country, followed six months later by an Interlagos Blue one and then, when they came out, replaced by an estate also in Interlagos Blue. Deffo the quickest colour is blue
.You are quite right to drive them in manual mode only. I drove all of mine like I stole them, including a few trackdays, and never had any bother at all. In fact all 3 were 100% reliable while I had them.
The biggest thing for me was the software changes between the three cars. BMW progressively softened them off especially the gearbox mapping. The first one was a bloody animal with the diff nose smacking the bottom of the car on the fastest gearshift speeds at full chat it was feral. My BMW dealer was able to disable the top speed limiter at which point the car would run up to high 180mph speeds ridiculously easily. I never got a chance for a proper V-Max run but there were lots of people claiming 200MPH was possible. It was one of the best and most fun cars I’ve ever had. By the time I got to the estate it was quite disappointing in comparison, the extra weight was noticeable, the software was much more refined and the speed limiter was now tamper proof
. So if yours is an early one then it should be a belter. Good luck with the fuel economy
I regularly got low teens over a full tank and even at a steady motorway cruise it wouldn’t beat 20mpg. It was a bit of a shock after an E39M5 which proceeded the E60, the E39 is not a paragon of virtue but it was a lot better.Thanks for the comments all.
Silverstone is only the fastest colour when it is associated with a great big hoofing supercharger so il let you have that one 😂
Addressing issue number one.. both fobs not working. The car has the non comfort access, so the batteries in my fobs charge via the ignition and not replaceable as such.. unless you cut the fob open and solder in a new battery, which I have.
Still no luck. But I’m hoping the battery is dead so il take the car out today to charge the battery and see what it does.
If no luck, then I’ll be looking at replacing the diversity antenna. Deep down I think it’s this anyway as it’s a coincidence both keys don’t work.
Lastly.. engine light came up Saturday night. Scanned yesterday and nothing seemed scary, I did note low voltage in the battery so hopefully it’s just having a sulk over this. Il get it connected to a CTEK charger over night tonight and hopefully she should be right as rain!
First big expense - tyres. I took the car out to the gym Lastnight and in the wet those Accelera tyres are a total death trap, admittedly I did give it a few pokes in M mode but still. Michelin PS4s have been ordered and should be fitted Saturday afternoon.
Silverstone is only the fastest colour when it is associated with a great big hoofing supercharger so il let you have that one 😂
Addressing issue number one.. both fobs not working. The car has the non comfort access, so the batteries in my fobs charge via the ignition and not replaceable as such.. unless you cut the fob open and solder in a new battery, which I have.
Still no luck. But I’m hoping the battery is dead so il take the car out today to charge the battery and see what it does.
If no luck, then I’ll be looking at replacing the diversity antenna. Deep down I think it’s this anyway as it’s a coincidence both keys don’t work.
Lastly.. engine light came up Saturday night. Scanned yesterday and nothing seemed scary, I did note low voltage in the battery so hopefully it’s just having a sulk over this. Il get it connected to a CTEK charger over night tonight and hopefully she should be right as rain!
First big expense - tyres. I took the car out to the gym Lastnight and in the wet those Accelera tyres are a total death trap, admittedly I did give it a few pokes in M mode but still. Michelin PS4s have been ordered and should be fitted Saturday afternoon.
irfan1712 said:
Addressing issue number one.. both fobs not working. The car has the non comfort access, so the batteries in my fobs charge via the ignition and not replaceable as such.. unless you cut the fob open and solder in a new battery, which I have.
Still no luck. But I m hoping the battery is dead so il take the car out today to charge the battery and see what it does.
If no luck, then I ll be looking at replacing the diversity antenna. Deep down I think it s this anyway as it s a coincidence both keys don t work.
You could have tried to charge one of the fobs using an electric tooth brush charger, but it does sound like it could be diversity related. I do not believe you can buy these new so you'll have to get a 2nd hand one. Still no luck. But I m hoping the battery is dead so il take the car out today to charge the battery and see what it does.
If no luck, then I ll be looking at replacing the diversity antenna. Deep down I think it s this anyway as it s a coincidence both keys don t work.
OOI, if you stand next to the back door of the car and try and unlock, does it work? When my diversity failed this is what I had to do.
TheAngryDog said:
You could have tried to charge one of the fobs using an electric tooth brush charger, but it does sound like it could be diversity related. I do not believe you can buy these new so you'll have to get a 2nd hand one.
OOI, if you stand next to the back door of the car and try and unlock, does it work? When my diversity failed this is what I had to do.
Thanks mate. I've been through the process of elimination just for my sanity before considering the Diversity module:OOI, if you stand next to the back door of the car and try and unlock, does it work? When my diversity failed this is what I had to do.
-Both keys start the car
-Both keys transmit a signal (took it to Timpsons as i dont have an RF tester)
-hooked it up to a CTEK lastnight and gave the battery a solid charge (it was on 56% as it hasnt been used despite a new battery in November.. deep down i thought a low state of charge 'may' have upset the diversity module but no change now the battery is up to charge)
-neither key works near the rear pillar or window where the diversity module lives
interestingly speaking to the previous owner Munich Legends got a key working last year and now neither work again.
Either way, all good. Il get the existing diversity module out this weekend and inspect it before buying a new one and go from there. The scanner doesnt bring up any issues relating to this either.
The scanner did bring up error codes on both primary cats on the weekend which threw the EML on. Ive cleared them and they havent returned and have since charged the battery so we'll see how that goes, my hope is that worse case scenario its a pair of lamba sensors pre-cat (there is a pair post cat too i believe) that need replacing rather than the cats themselves as that'll be a big one to swallow.
These are 21 year old E60 problems rather than directly big scary E60 M5 issues so for now, so il count my lucky stars.
unseen said:
irfan1712 said:
Quite a few bases covered by your fleet - cars for nearly all occasions - approved! the Cupra is fantastic and in all honesty all the car anyone actually needs. Does a real world 75miles of electric only currently.
Edited by irfan1712 on Friday 5th June 12:11
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