Phoenix Bespoke Keys
Discussion
Need a some thoughts and advise please;
My black plastic valet worked fine but the ribbbee buttons were deformed and looked like they might fall off inside the ignition slot.
I sent the key off to Phoenix for their button upgrade (ludicrously expensive, but I accepted that). They sent it back looking very nice but it’s didn’t work at all, none of the buttons.
I sent it back and have just got this reply;
“We have received your key and checked it over.
Using our signal checker it is sending a signal on every button press.
We have checked the battery and it is at 3.28v (basically new).
As it stands there is nothing wrong as far as we can tell with your key.
When we perform the button upgrade we do not interfere with the electronics of the key (upon receipt we check it sends a signal and on dispatch we check again), and out upgrade is entirely independent of the electronics – they are simply hard plastic buttons to replace the rubber ones).”
So they want to send it back. I cannot fathom how a perfectly functional key can come back completely non functional but still test ok. The only possible explanation could be that they mixed up the keys..?
There’s obviously nothing more they’ll do as they can say it never worked.
Question is, from where I am now, can I get this key coded to my car by someone? Main dealer?
My black plastic valet worked fine but the ribbbee buttons were deformed and looked like they might fall off inside the ignition slot.
I sent the key off to Phoenix for their button upgrade (ludicrously expensive, but I accepted that). They sent it back looking very nice but it’s didn’t work at all, none of the buttons.
I sent it back and have just got this reply;
“We have received your key and checked it over.
Using our signal checker it is sending a signal on every button press.
We have checked the battery and it is at 3.28v (basically new).
As it stands there is nothing wrong as far as we can tell with your key.
When we perform the button upgrade we do not interfere with the electronics of the key (upon receipt we check it sends a signal and on dispatch we check again), and out upgrade is entirely independent of the electronics – they are simply hard plastic buttons to replace the rubber ones).”
So they want to send it back. I cannot fathom how a perfectly functional key can come back completely non functional but still test ok. The only possible explanation could be that they mixed up the keys..?
There’s obviously nothing more they’ll do as they can say it never worked.
Question is, from where I am now, can I get this key coded to my car by someone? Main dealer?
Simpo Two said:
Ah, Phoenix, the ones who sell £20 buttons for £200. When I commented that it seemed somewhat steep for four tiny bits of plastic they replied 'It must be difficult running an Aston Martin on a budget'.
The sort of comment that would not only lose you customers in a world of social media but also one that would have been replied to with ' I run my car looking for value for money rather than tight budget'.Moderator edit: no naming & shaming
I've often looked at their website and wondered how they remain in business but then I question virtually everything in life before parting with my money so maybe I'm not their target audience.
As to the OP, I'm at a loss as to what to do here. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place without you spending a lot more money you don't have a solution unless someone on this forum has experience of this before.
Edited by BiggaJ on Wednesday 3rd June 10:42
Looks like the mods have been busy this morning chaps 
I know their plastic buttons are expensive for what they are but when mine started to collapse and effectively made the key unusable there weren’t really any other options available like there are now. So reluctantly I coughed up and I have to say they make a huge difference in both the look of the key and its functionality. Simpo Two, I remember you wrote what they said to you at the time it happened. Shocking comment really. I recently had to pay for yet another replacement windscreen washer reservoir bottle for my car. More AM plastic tax I guess.
ETA. I just ordered the buttons and fitted them myself. I didn’t send them the key. As BiggaJ said, it’s a tricky situation OP. I guess the best course of action would be to visit an AM MD and see if they could help. Fingers crossed for you.
BRM.
I know their plastic buttons are expensive for what they are but when mine started to collapse and effectively made the key unusable there weren’t really any other options available like there are now. So reluctantly I coughed up and I have to say they make a huge difference in both the look of the key and its functionality. Simpo Two, I remember you wrote what they said to you at the time it happened. Shocking comment really. I recently had to pay for yet another replacement windscreen washer reservoir bottle for my car. More AM plastic tax I guess.
ETA. I just ordered the buttons and fitted them myself. I didn’t send them the key. As BiggaJ said, it’s a tricky situation OP. I guess the best course of action would be to visit an AM MD and see if they could help. Fingers crossed for you.
BRM.
Edited by Minglar on Wednesday 3rd June 08:54
In the interest of balance, I have used Phoenix twice. A few years ago, through circumstances I won't go into here my once-pristine glass key had a couple of chips; I had a chat with Phoenix at one of the AMHT events, couldn't afford the full replacement at the time but Phoenix ground the chips out whilst largely keeping the shape of the crystal. Happy.
Recently, a few years on, and I was in a position to have the key properly repaired. I could have bought a new chassis from AML but, for less money than that, Phoenix added a new crystal and refurbished the gloss black on mine with a more durable finish than the standard black acetal. The latest refurbishment even came back in a little custom tin to protect it in transit. Not cheap, but very happy.
To the topic of the thread I sympathise with Yeti (but I can see the situation from Phoenix's side too - they get a working key, they send a working key). Were I in this situation I'd be inclined to get the car and the key down to Phoenix and have a chat with them - if they have swapped the internals then there should be another customer with an identical complaint. All companies have problems - the measure of the company is they way they deal with it, so give them a chance. And AFAIK the car has to be programmed to the key with AMDS, but could be wrong - I think Phoenix also sell complete spare keys so they should know the process. They might even be able to detect a difference in the signal from the two keys to confirm the "wrong key" assumption - but I'm guessing wildly here
Other than using their services twice I have no relationship with Phoenix.
Recently, a few years on, and I was in a position to have the key properly repaired. I could have bought a new chassis from AML but, for less money than that, Phoenix added a new crystal and refurbished the gloss black on mine with a more durable finish than the standard black acetal. The latest refurbishment even came back in a little custom tin to protect it in transit. Not cheap, but very happy.
To the topic of the thread I sympathise with Yeti (but I can see the situation from Phoenix's side too - they get a working key, they send a working key). Were I in this situation I'd be inclined to get the car and the key down to Phoenix and have a chat with them - if they have swapped the internals then there should be another customer with an identical complaint. All companies have problems - the measure of the company is they way they deal with it, so give them a chance. And AFAIK the car has to be programmed to the key with AMDS, but could be wrong - I think Phoenix also sell complete spare keys so they should know the process. They might even be able to detect a difference in the signal from the two keys to confirm the "wrong key" assumption - but I'm guessing wildly here
Other than using their services twice I have no relationship with Phoenix.
I've asked the question of bringing my car down LTP and also any possible explanation like mixing them up and also whether it can be sorted at a main dealer.
With £18 being requested to send it back special delivery I'll be out 200 quid for new buttons on a now-non functional key. My feeling is also that once it leaves their premises, they will wash their hands of it.
With £18 being requested to send it back special delivery I'll be out 200 quid for new buttons on a now-non functional key. My feeling is also that once it leaves their premises, they will wash their hands of it.
Oh well. Seems legit and I'm grateful they replied.
"We only ever work on one key at a time to prevent possible issues such as mixing up keys, so that certainly cannot have happened. Also we have not had another customer say their key isn’t working.
Once we receive a key, we test it on our signal checker to see if it sends a signal. If it doesn’t we flag this up with the customer. It then goes into a specific named sealed box with the customers details until it is worked on.
When we then work on the key it is done so in isolation and when work is completed the key is tested again with the signal checker before then being packaged up ready for dispatch.
Any test we would do should you bring your car here, which you are welcome to do, would be exactly what you would do, see if the key opens/closes and then starts the car. Did you check to see if it started the car?
As the work we do is purely cosmetic there is no conceivable way in which the button upgrade can alter the operation of the electronic internals themselves. To use an analogy it would be like saying changing the alloys on a car suddenly stopped the engine working.
Without the programming codes the keys cannot be re-programmed. We have the ability to programme keys here fyi.
My first thought would be to try the key again and see if it works, inc starting the car. We have heard this happen before where the car’s key module develops a Random fault requiring a replacement module and keys reprogramming. It could also be a range matter (try the key closer to the car).
You can either bring your car to us to test for you or we can post your key back to you but I would like to reassure you our processes prevent keys being mixed up and that the button upgrade cannot conceivably have stopped the key from working"
From my perspective:
I remember using the key to start the car at McGurks; it was probably unlocked though.
And when received it back from Phoenix, I only tried to unlock the car with it. I didn't try to start the engine as I grabbed the glass key instead as needed to get out the door.
I'll get it back and see what happens. Anyone know where programming codes are acquired from..?
"We only ever work on one key at a time to prevent possible issues such as mixing up keys, so that certainly cannot have happened. Also we have not had another customer say their key isn’t working.
Once we receive a key, we test it on our signal checker to see if it sends a signal. If it doesn’t we flag this up with the customer. It then goes into a specific named sealed box with the customers details until it is worked on.
When we then work on the key it is done so in isolation and when work is completed the key is tested again with the signal checker before then being packaged up ready for dispatch.
Any test we would do should you bring your car here, which you are welcome to do, would be exactly what you would do, see if the key opens/closes and then starts the car. Did you check to see if it started the car?
As the work we do is purely cosmetic there is no conceivable way in which the button upgrade can alter the operation of the electronic internals themselves. To use an analogy it would be like saying changing the alloys on a car suddenly stopped the engine working.
Without the programming codes the keys cannot be re-programmed. We have the ability to programme keys here fyi.
My first thought would be to try the key again and see if it works, inc starting the car. We have heard this happen before where the car’s key module develops a Random fault requiring a replacement module and keys reprogramming. It could also be a range matter (try the key closer to the car).
You can either bring your car to us to test for you or we can post your key back to you but I would like to reassure you our processes prevent keys being mixed up and that the button upgrade cannot conceivably have stopped the key from working"
From my perspective:
I remember using the key to start the car at McGurks; it was probably unlocked though.
And when received it back from Phoenix, I only tried to unlock the car with it. I didn't try to start the engine as I grabbed the glass key instead as needed to get out the door.
I'll get it back and see what happens. Anyone know where programming codes are acquired from..?
I'm not going to go into the saga of my key on the public forum but can definitely refute the sentence below.
yeti said:
Oh well. Seems legit and I'm grateful they replied.
"We only ever work on one key at a time to prevent possible issues such as mixing up keys, so that certainly cannot have happened. Also we have not had another customer say their key isn t working.
"We only ever work on one key at a time to prevent possible issues such as mixing up keys, so that certainly cannot have happened. Also we have not had another customer say their key isn t working.
I have one of these which works pretty well.
https://www.clafton.au/store/Silver-Key-for-Aston-...
Not cheap but they seem well made and I can’t fault it.
https://www.clafton.au/store/Silver-Key-for-Aston-...
Not cheap but they seem well made and I can’t fault it.
I came across this which might be a useful option. They're great people to deal with: https://www.astonstore.co.uk/product/repair-kit-ca...
Simpo Two said:
I came across this which might be a useful option. They're great people to deal with: https://www.astonstore.co.uk/product/repair-kit-ca...
Certainly seems a better value option than paying over a hundred notes just for four buttons.I can vouch for these on ebay - fitted them myself recently only £20: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116723667875?itmmeta=01...
May I ask a silly question, i replaced my rubber buttons with an ebay replacement for about $50 years ago. Why would you need to send them your key after all they are just fitting new buttons which are a rubber pad with raised buttons that are pad stamped? I suggest they have omitted to put the tiny black code activator9 for want of a better word) that sits in the fob.
Anyone got an understanding of how these keys actually work..?
I got my plastic key back (again) from Phoenix.
It actually starts the car! But does not lock, unlock, open the boot or put the lights on.
So it’s the correct key for the car which removes the mix-up option, but none of the button functions work. And I’ll be honest here, when at McGurks I only tested the key to start the car, it was already open so I didn’t try the buttons. So I don’t know if it ever worked.
Is there even an explanation for that?? And is it sortable..? Glass key on a daily basis is only going to end one way…
I got my plastic key back (again) from Phoenix.
It actually starts the car! But does not lock, unlock, open the boot or put the lights on.
So it’s the correct key for the car which removes the mix-up option, but none of the button functions work. And I’ll be honest here, when at McGurks I only tested the key to start the car, it was already open so I didn’t try the buttons. So I don’t know if it ever worked.
Is there even an explanation for that?? And is it sortable..? Glass key on a daily basis is only going to end one way…
yeti said:
I got my plastic key back (again) from Phoenix.
It actually starts the car! But does not lock, unlock, open the boot or put the lights on.
So it s the correct key for the car which removes the mix-up option, but none of the button functions work. And I ll be honest here, when at McGurks I only tested the key to start the car, it was already open so I didn t try the buttons. So I don t know if it ever worked.
Tricky. You'd think they'd have checked it was emitting signals before sending it back, or at least told you 'sorry it's borked'.It actually starts the car! But does not lock, unlock, open the boot or put the lights on.
So it s the correct key for the car which removes the mix-up option, but none of the button functions work. And I ll be honest here, when at McGurks I only tested the key to start the car, it was already open so I didn t try the buttons. So I don t know if it ever worked.
My DB9 was the first car I'd ever owned where I paid people not to fix it. Maybe you're having the same luck!
Would it be worth having a chat with McGurks and ask if they can help?
Yes 100% I’ll be speaking to McGurk about it.
I don’t think Phoenix are at fault here, they tested the battery and confirmed it’s emitting a signal. It’s just not a signal that opens my car.
I’m just trying to get my head around how it can start the car but not open/close the car. I presumed they were either coded to your car or not, so I guess there are two different systems inside.
I don’t think Phoenix are at fault here, they tested the battery and confirmed it’s emitting a signal. It’s just not a signal that opens my car.
I’m just trying to get my head around how it can start the car but not open/close the car. I presumed they were either coded to your car or not, so I guess there are two different systems inside.
yeti said:
Yes 100% I ll be speaking to McGurk about it.
I don t think Phoenix are at fault here, they tested the battery and confirmed it s emitting a signal. It s just not a signal that opens my car.
I m just trying to get my head around how it can start the car but not open/close the car. I presumed they were either coded to your car or not, so I guess there are two different systems inside.
AFAIK there's two systems in each key, an active and a passive. My understanding is, simplistically:I don t think Phoenix are at fault here, they tested the battery and confirmed it s emitting a signal. It s just not a signal that opens my car.
I m just trying to get my head around how it can start the car but not open/close the car. I presumed they were either coded to your car or not, so I guess there are two different systems inside.
The active system in the key sends a signal to the car when you press a button on the key to unlock doors, etc. and requires a battery in the key to transmit the signal (the keys use two different frequencies, depending on the region.) The car "listens" for these signals in a passive mode - this is one of the sources of "quiescent drain" that flattens car batteries - the car is always on and listening for a signal. When the car gets a signal it recognises, it switches off the alarm and unlocks the doors. It's this system you get around when you use the metal key to manually unlock a door, and why the alarm goes off if you do
The passive part of the key responds to a signal from the car when the key is inserted into the ignition dock or lock and ignition system is turned on - this tells the car immobiliser that it's OK to start the car as it recognises the key. This system does not need a battery in the key as the car ignition lock transmits a RFID-type signal to the key, which induces a current in the key circuit which, in turn, generates a signal that the car can read and, if it likes what it sees, it starts the car.
Again, as far as I know, for the two both require the car to be programmed to recognise the key, but the key "talks" to two different car systems. The key lock/unlock buttons talk to (I think) either the door modules or the main body control module and the immobiliser chip talks to the engine ECU.
Hope this helps. If my understanding is erroneous then happy to be educated.
tidied up and edited to add
keyless entry and rolling codes is a whole different thing
Edited by LTP on Thursday 11th June 19:25
Thanks for taking the time to explain LTP, it’s appreciated.
But how the flip can my key only have one system that matches the car?
The active battery powered system is working, it’s powered up and emitting a signal say Phoenix, who have no reason to say it is if it isn’t. But why doesn’t that match my car when my glass keys work fine.
Has my plastic key been cobbled together from broken bits? Can the active part be replaced or reprogrammed to my car with someone with AMDS?
But how the flip can my key only have one system that matches the car?
The active battery powered system is working, it’s powered up and emitting a signal say Phoenix, who have no reason to say it is if it isn’t. But why doesn’t that match my car when my glass keys work fine.
Has my plastic key been cobbled together from broken bits? Can the active part be replaced or reprogrammed to my car with someone with AMDS?
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