Market manipulation or actual supply and demand?

[Patrick-Peter]

At the risk of coming across as that guy with sour grapes.

Who is responsible for what i can only see as price market manipulation and the bandwagonism that is following on.

Is the price increases that is seemingly heading towards 100 percent in a year for top end and even regular lambo's actually selling the cars or cutting off a market of would be buyers?.

[andrew]

never in my lifetime have the new lamborghini sports cars on offer been less attractive to me...

almost the same with ferrari too

[garystoybox]

Heard Graypaul Nottingham sold a Pista spider last week for £720k. Even they couldn’t believe somebody paid that much for a car that would have been c£390k 6-9 months ago. The worlds gone mad.

[Babw]

It's a really strange one and I haven't it seen anything like this in the 10 years I've been buying performance cars so I'm not really sure what to make of it. It looks like some are moving, for example the Gallardo market has gone silly and cars are selling. I've had a £220k offer for my 560-2 50th that I bought 4 months ago for half of that price, on the face of it it's a no brainer but I will never find that car again and if the market does drop, I can't see a buyer who paid £220k for it letting it go for significantly less.

I really want to get an Aventador S but compared to the prices of even 3 months ago, it looks like a bubble and I could be tempted to sell my 812SF but it's my perfect spec and I don't want to pay £100k more in a year if things go up again so man maths says add an Aventador as well.

Very strange times.

[supersport]

It’s an odd market.

When I bought my F12 this time last year there were 30 available. Now it’s 2 or 3 and one has a stupid body kit.

Same with 720 spiders.

But given how expensive new cars are and the hybrid bks, I can see why owners are keeping them.

[NeilTB]

Given the price changes are quite broad-based (many models & brands) I suspect it is structural rather than dealers pumping the market. Globally equity markets are at / near all-time highs. Locally, the end of the buy-to-let phenomenon and threats of more wealth taxes are also probably contributing to demand.

The true investment end of the classic car market (F40, 250 GTO, etc) has risen year-on-year for quite a while now, so this was bound to pull everything else along at some point. Absent some disaster in the Gulf (obviously possible) it is not obviously going to reverse anytime soon

[SVJBalboni]

Of course it's a bubble. In Asia and even the UAE, prices for Aventador's including the SVJ are stable. The EU also has a healthy inventory of Aventador's sitting on the market for months, whereas the US and now the UK are going back to the days of COVID. Prices are disconnected from actual transaction data and are driven primarily by asking prices, broker activity, and social media hype. SVJ values increasing weekly is not normal for any asset market.

And speaking of market manipulation, Carrio Motors in the US is notorious for manipulating the Lambo market in the US. They'll list an SVJ for sale for $1.5 million and, a day later, claim it's sold. It then turns out the person who supposedly bought it is a broker. Or they'll 'sell' the car to an influencer who's essentially renting it for a few months.

[WCZ]

new cars aren't interesting at all and the past just keeps getting better and better

could happy sit with a 360cs on my drive forever

anyone who thinks the sf90 is too slow and is buying the 849 because it's faster is crazy imo, the usable road performance peaked ages ago so it's more about styling/feel/fun

[Patrick-Peter]

I get that some of the latest cars from the supercar brands aren't appealing and therefore people are holding onto their cars.

I just can't swallow the rise in prices or asking prices as down to mere supply and demand.

Are Murci's really 400/500k cars now (achieving not asking).
Are we to expect non limited Aventadors that are currently circa 150/170k to be 300/400/500k in a matter of months?

[lambo666]

Is looking like actual supply and demand, If you own a V12 Lamborghini - what are you going to upgrade / change into?
If you want noise / drama / fun - the newer stuff has none of that - the new stuff is just a bit faster, too heavy, less wow factor etc, then massive price increases on top of that!
Harry's Garage recent you tube video on the Temerario is bang on I think.
Recent actual sale prices I know of are -

Aventador SV Roadster 500k - sold
SVJ Roadster - 2 sold over 700k (both below 5k miles)
Aventador S Coupe - 230k (over 20k miles) sold
Aventador S Roadster - 300k (over 15k miles) sold

I know dealers and even private sellers have them up at much more than the examples above, but the current owners of these cars have no real desire to sell them... hence the sky high asking prices...

[Babw]

I'm keeping a close eye on the Aventador market and some cars are slowly coming down in price. SV's and S' have been on the market for a couple of months at least. Will be interesting to see what happens as we approach winter.

[Babw]

Number of Aventadors have risen from 35 to 59 on Autotrader with some prices coming down. The only difference being private dealers keep advertising that incrementally higher prices with "collector grade" in the description. Yellow stitching and 3 owners are now apparently collector grade. One car for example started at £260-£290-£310-£330-£360-£330-£305 and it's sat there for almost 4 months.

Hopefully the FOMO buyers have now picked up the overpriced cars they demand and the rest of the market can find a demand led rather than dealer led balance.

[Bunty Killa]

Babw said:

Number of Aventadors have risen from 35 to 59 on Autotrader with some prices coming down. The only difference being private dealers keep advertising that incrementally higher prices with "collector grade" in the description. Yellow stitching and 3 owners are now apparently collector grade. One car for example started at £260-£290-£310-£330-£360-£330-£305 and it's sat there for almost 4 months.

Hopefully the FOMO buyers have now picked up the overpriced cars they demand and the rest of the market can find a demand led rather than dealer led balance.

I sold my SVJ last year for £400k, wish i kept it!

[cgt2]

I still think Aventador S are the overlooked sweet spot. Better to drive than an SV to me because of the 4WS and better shifting, made in very small numbers for just over a year and actually usable (as far as an AV can be).

[carspath1]

Patrick-Peter : I have no handle on the current monetary value of Murcielagos, or how their values might have fluctuated recently, but can I address a related point to the one that you have brought up in both your posts - the historical, engineering and design value of the Murcielago vs its two immediate predecessors ( and other supercars).

I have reason to believe that a very recently published book has looked at Lamborghini s Holy Trinity as a single discrete unity, and while a significant part of that book concentrates on the socio-politico-economic factors that drove Sant’ Agata to evolve the Countach into the Diablo and thence the Murcielago, the rest of the book looks at what is common between the 3 in terms of their Bizzarrini powertrain, tubular spaceframe chassis, extreme wedge aesthetics, and most of all their South-North Engine-Gearbox orientation.

The truth is that the Murcielago is essentially an updated Countach, and it is the last of a truly exceptional dynasty that lasted from 1971 right through to 2010

So whatever the prices Murcielagos are going for now, they should also be seen as telling something about supercar history that can be traced directly back to 1971.
And that has value that far transcends dollars and cents.

And in September 2023, none other than Marcello Gandini told me and Dr Reck that there has been no truly new Lamborghini since the Countach ( I,m typing this out on my iPad in my garden so the precise wording might not be exactly correct , but Snr Gandini s sentiment was made abundantly clear to us)

Edited by carspath1 on Friday 17th July 16:28

Edited by carspath1 on Friday 17th July 16:30