Caught in a box junction o/search Depford Fire Staion
Discussion
I got caught by a yellow box camera outside Deptford Fire Station last week, Ive add the photos below & my appeal email
Brief back ground, to the left of the photo there are roadworks with a temporary set of traffic lights (outside KFC if you know the area) the area by the 'Wait here when red' is only about 3 cars long, I entered the box junction with enough space to stop inas I entered the box junction a food delivery scooter overtook me and then decided to stop in the space leaving me trapped in the box junction outside Deptford Fire Station, I wasn't blocking any roads or entrances but I was in the box junction until the lights changed
Just wondered if anyone thinks I might win the appeal or should I be ready to pay Lewisham Council £80. Thanks
Appeal email
The way across the box junction was clear on my approach, but due to road works with a set of temporary traffic lights just to the left hand side of the box junction there is only space for 2-3 cars to stop at the lights without being in the box junction
As I entered the box junction with enough space to stop in, the temporary traffic lights turned red, as this happened the motor cycle overtook from behind, & then moved from the centre of the road (the off side of my car) to directly in front of my car, you can see this at the start of the video footage.
The traffic then stopped at the temporary traffic lights as they were displaying red light with the motor cycle was now taking up the space I intended to use, & for whatever reason they would not move left or right, you can also see this in the video. If they had done so it would have allowed me to pull up out of the box junction and not leaving me on the cross hatching.
The 2 reasons I ended up in the box junction are
1 - The temporary traffic lights at the road works turning red with very little room between the 'Wait here when red' sign & the box junction.
2 - The motor cycle overtaking me as I entered the box junction then taking up the space between the rear of 1 car & the box junction markings & not moving to the left or right, as you can see in the video there is plenty of space for them to do so.
Brief back ground, to the left of the photo there are roadworks with a temporary set of traffic lights (outside KFC if you know the area) the area by the 'Wait here when red' is only about 3 cars long, I entered the box junction with enough space to stop inas I entered the box junction a food delivery scooter overtook me and then decided to stop in the space leaving me trapped in the box junction outside Deptford Fire Station, I wasn't blocking any roads or entrances but I was in the box junction until the lights changed
Just wondered if anyone thinks I might win the appeal or should I be ready to pay Lewisham Council £80. Thanks
Appeal email
The way across the box junction was clear on my approach, but due to road works with a set of temporary traffic lights just to the left hand side of the box junction there is only space for 2-3 cars to stop at the lights without being in the box junction
As I entered the box junction with enough space to stop in, the temporary traffic lights turned red, as this happened the motor cycle overtook from behind, & then moved from the centre of the road (the off side of my car) to directly in front of my car, you can see this at the start of the video footage.
The traffic then stopped at the temporary traffic lights as they were displaying red light with the motor cycle was now taking up the space I intended to use, & for whatever reason they would not move left or right, you can also see this in the video. If they had done so it would have allowed me to pull up out of the box junction and not leaving me on the cross hatching.
The 2 reasons I ended up in the box junction are
1 - The temporary traffic lights at the road works turning red with very little room between the 'Wait here when red' sign & the box junction.
2 - The motor cycle overtaking me as I entered the box junction then taking up the space between the rear of 1 car & the box junction markings & not moving to the left or right, as you can see in the video there is plenty of space for them to do so.
Edited by audikentman on Saturday 6th June 21:21
Mandat said:
Thanks for that.
You will see that if (as) your exit was clear when you entered the box then you too should be in the clear. Although you may need to convince the authorities that there would have been room for your car if the bike had not been there!
The "Yellow Box Guru" demonstrates the general principle.
A tribunal may well clear you if the Council doesn't. But you then risk paying the higher penalty?
The "Yellow Box Guru" offers personal assistance for a coffee/fiver (£5) via his Facebook site.
I may have been caught by one a week or so ago that had a clear entry as I entered, but then a car ahead decided to stop and let some people across the road so I ended up being caught stationary on the hatchings for 5 seconds - not sure what the result would be if I appealed but very annoying.
If there was space for your car to clear* the yellow box junction just as you entered; but then a bike entered it AND the car in front also reversed about 6 feet, I think you'll get off with no bother.
- They seem to have you on pic 1 though, the other car was still in the yellow box, so it wasn't clear.
I think you've over complicated it in your email. I would have just said
"when I entered the box junction, my exit was clear. But as I was going thru the box junction, the scooter overtook me and cut in front, taking my exit space, and leaving me no option other than to stop in the junction".
That's it, no need for anything about temp lights or any other fluff.
"when I entered the box junction, my exit was clear. But as I was going thru the box junction, the scooter overtook me and cut in front, taking my exit space, and leaving me no option other than to stop in the junction".
That's it, no need for anything about temp lights or any other fluff.
I’m confused. In the first photo the scooter has already overtaken you by the time you enter the yellow box. There’s also a car still in the box, that’s a fair bit bigger than your car, so it won’t have been easy to see what’s beyond it. Also, in your appeal you say that the scooter “didn’t move to the left or right”. Why do you expect them to move out of your way? Why didn’t you move to the left of the road / your right hand side if you think there was enough room?
How busy is that road - if every vehicle paused until the vehicle in front of had cleared the box doesn’t that create greatly exaggerated traffic spacing?
I only use one box junction regularly, it’s across the entrance to a roundabout but extends too far around it - at peak times if you didn’t pull onto the roundabout and wait in the box you’d never move.
The box in the OP’ss case looks far bigger than it needs to be, especially with the additional traffic lights.
I only use one box junction regularly, it’s across the entrance to a roundabout but extends too far around it - at peak times if you didn’t pull onto the roundabout and wait in the box you’d never move.
The box in the OP’ss case looks far bigger than it needs to be, especially with the additional traffic lights.
Looks like they bagged 3 vehicles in one go, nice little earner.
Having been the victim of a box junction when approx 6" of my car over hung the end of the box for about 10 seconds due to a car in front stopping for no reason, I hope the OP wins.
One a few miles from me in Kingston earnt nearly £500k in just eight months and actually hindered Ambulances from the nearby station as no one would move in case they got a fine.
Having been the victim of a box junction when approx 6" of my car over hung the end of the box for about 10 seconds due to a car in front stopping for no reason, I hope the OP wins.
One a few miles from me in Kingston earnt nearly £500k in just eight months and actually hindered Ambulances from the nearby station as no one would move in case they got a fine.
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