Kemi and the Conservatives

[Slow.Patrol]

I did a search and couldn't find a dedicated thread, apologies if one exists.

Anyway, it seems that the Conservatives are committed to leaving the ECHR.



It seems they are now understanding that the best way to beat Farage is to take on some of his policies. Especially the ones the people like.

[_Rodders_]

Genuine question. Doesn't that put off the normal middle class people who just want to pay less tax? Or do they hold their nose while voting.

Or more likely they've no idea what policies the Conservatives bring out as they'll vote for anything with a blue rosette.

[Yahonza]

Slow.Patrol said:

I did a search and couldn't find a dedicated thread, apologies if one exists.

Anyway, it seems that the Conservatives are committed to leaving the ECHR.

'The latest wheeze'

It seems they are now understanding that the best way to beat Farage is to take on some of his policies. Especially the ones the people like.

They (The Conservatives) tried this previously, against the previous incarnation of Farage.
What happened next?

The Conservatives need to stick to their principles if they still have them - otherwise they will become extinct. That doesn't include sticking up for Labour!
Although the win in Aberdeen South was something to behold. Iain Sproat's old constituency.

Edited by Yahonza on Wednesday 24th June 18:50

[tangerine_sedge]

Removal of the ECHR is just an excuse to remove peoples rights. The digital id thread is full of people complaining about the government knowing too much about individuals, yet here we have 2 right wing parties talking about the removal of the ECHR and the subsequent actual impacts on freedom and its quietly nodded through because of 'stop the boats' (tm).

[Bluevanman]

How would it impact your average UK born citizen ?

[tangerine_sedge]

Bluevanman said:

How would it impact your average UK born citizen ?

A simple example is given in the letter - stopping a vocal protester in a public place. You might not agree with the reason for his campaign, but you should care that you have the same right.

[JoshSm]

tangerine_sedge said:

Removal of the ECHR is just an excuse to remove peoples rights. The digital id thread is full of people complaining about the government knowing too much about individuals, yet here we have 2 right wing parties talking about the removal of the ECHR and the subsequent actual impacts on freedom and its quietly nodded through because of 'stop the boats' (tm).

Remind me what impediment the ECHR is creating for digital ID?

If all people see is it helping lawyers protecting criminal no-marks while not usefully constraining government, they might not see any value in it.

As a way of protecting freedom it doesn't seem to be selling itself, maybe because of the way it's filtered through the opinions of certain lawyers and judges.

Not like the way it's being interpreted is exactly popular in Europe either.

[Bluevanman]

tangerine_sedge said:

A simple example is given in the letter - stopping a vocal protester in a public place. You might not agree with the reason for his campaign, but you should care that you have the same right.

He's allowed to protest peacefully but he's a menace and yet because of the ECHR he can continue and you think that's a good thing ?

[butchstewie]

It's really weird how so many of the "free speech" and "just hurty words" ambassadors of NP&E are annoyed so much by a bloke with a megaphone

[Bluevanman]

butchstewie said:

It's really weird how so many of the "free speech" and "just hurty words" ambassadors of NP&E are annoyed so much by a bloke with a megaphone

Did you see Starmer making his speech in Downing Street ? The 'background music' was ridiculous

[Slow.Patrol]

Bluevanman said:

butchstewie said:

It's really weird how so many of the "free speech" and "just hurty words" ambassadors of NP&E are annoyed so much by a bloke with a megaphone

Did you see Starmer making his speech in Downing Street ? The 'background music' was ridiculous

It was.

But our Stewie loves to make a point. It leaves him feeling so important for the rest of the day.

[Randy Winkman]

Slow.Patrol said:

Bluevanman said:

butchstewie said:

It's really weird how so many of the "free speech" and "just hurty words" ambassadors of NP&E are annoyed so much by a bloke with a megaphone

Did you see Starmer making his speech in Downing Street ? The 'background music' was ridiculous

It was.

But our Stewie loves to make a point. It leaves him feeling so important for the rest of the day.

And you?

[BikeBikeBIke]

tangerine_sedge said:

A simple example is given in the letter - stopping a vocal protester in a public place. You might not agree with the reason for his campaign, but you should care that you have the same right.

That's a terrible example. I don't want random yobs having a legal right to drown out the PM and they seem to be the people the ECHR protects. Pull out of the ECHR and draft rules to protect the vast majority and not to fringe loons.

Of course, a rewrite of the ECHR could provide citizens with more protections, not less.

(...and I have never voted for Brexit or Farage or any party with even an option of Brexit in any form and I *have* voted for a party promising to abandon Brexit and remain.)

[BikeBikeBIke]

butchstewie said:

It's really weird how so many of the "free speech" and "just hurty words" ambassadors of NP&E are annoyed so much by a bloke with a megaphone

How is drowning out an elected PM's words at a critical moment free speech. It's the opposite of free speech!

[Mortarboard]

So we'll be able to ban Tommy ten names marches and protests too then.

Great!



M.

[Slow.Patrol]

Should someone's right to free speech impede on another person's right to free speech?

I think that is the issue.

Plus the playing of loud music is pretty antisocial..

[Jasandjules]

Bluevanman said:

He's allowed to protest peacefully but he's a menace and yet because of the ECHR he can continue and you think that's a good thing ?

I don't know about him but I sure do.

We ALL should have the right to protest against our Govt and to have the freedom of speech. I consider it should be unfettered but that's another question.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Jasandjules said:

We ALL should have the right to protest against our Govt and to have the freedom of speech. I consider it should be unfettered but that's another question.

Im pretty sure the right to protest already has limits and I'm equally sure that whatever replaced the ECHR would allow also free protest.

I strongly suspect that the ECHR doesn't allow people to make noise at will otherwise every racetrack in the country could define all their track days as protests against something and forget noise limits.

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

Peaceful protest and freedom of speech, yes. Being a gobby and making everyone's day miserable, no.

Someone else's right to free speech does not trump someone else's right to go about their (legal) business unimpeded.

Freedom of speech means you can call Starmer a lying wker. It does not mean you have the right to shout over him or try to drown him out with loud music when he is giving an important press conference.

[Bluevanman]

Why should a European court have powers over and above the UK's ?