The 911 GT4 R

[TDT]

[Dr S]

That's the replacement of the 718 GT4 Clubsport race car, I presume. A pity that the best value for money race car has been replaced by one that will be much more costly...

[TDT]

Yep. Replacement for the 718 race cars, bringing all Porsche racing all onto the 911 platform - makes the transition easier.

[130R]

I think Porsche motorsport is in a pretty poor position right now because of their financial problems. A few iterations of the 911 (this, Cup and R) is basically it for the near future. Although they do have a couple of customer teams still running the 963 in IMSA this season.

[bigmowley]

If I remember correctly the last generation of 911GT4 race car was the 997 and I don't think they covered themselves in glory. More of a box ticking exercise for less well off dentists.

[ChrisW.]

The new GT4R : A 911

It took a long time to say that .... particularly since the GT3R moved the 911 towards the 718 engine position !!

[I 8 a 4RE]

Woof…. That’s rough.

It’s 996 / 986 time all over again; all replicable components on as few platforms as possible to ameliorate the whole created by the Taycan and Macan.

Porsche is just so uninspiring right now.

[PorscheGirl]

I kind of get it. The GT4 Cayman isn't as competitive under the current GT4 rules as the old car was. These new turbo vantages and M2s have so much torque. It's really crazy...and I guess that using the 4 litre motorsport engine in the tail will help to bring the GT4 back on terms with the Aston. but look at the cost!

Old GT4 cars make a really nice platform for Club Enduro or Roadsports or even Britcar...but I don't see many Am drivers going for these unless the residuals are so poor that the cars end up being £130k ish when they've done a season or two ? I really like the Cayman GT4 club sport. Great little racing car. It shall be missed.

[Schuey_911]

PorscheGirl said:

I kind of get it. The GT4 Cayman isn't as competitive under the current GT4 rules as the old car was. These new turbo vantages and M2s have so much torque. It's really crazy...and I guess that using the 4 litre motorsport engine in the tail will help to bring the GT4 back on terms with the Aston. but look at the cost!

Old GT4 cars make a really nice platform for Club Enduro or Roadsports or even Britcar...but I don't see many Am drivers going for these unless the residuals are so poor that the cars end up being £130k ish when they've done a season or two ? I really like the Cayman GT4 club sport. Great little racing car. It shall be missed.

But it is the same in the GT3 class as well, Porsche simply are no where compared to AMG, BMW, McLaren, Audi, Ferrari and even Lexus in some races. Look at recent N24 results, LeMans 24hrs and the Spa 24hrs qualifying positions for this weekend. Porsche are getting whooped.

Perhaps that's why the new 992.2 GT3 RS is rumoured to be Turbocharged, so that they can homologiate for the race series, and produce a Turbo engine that can compete with the other manufacturers..

[TDT]

Schuey_911 said:

PorscheGirl said:

I kind of get it. The GT4 Cayman isn't as competitive under the current GT4 rules as the old car was. These new turbo vantages and M2s have so much torque. It's really crazy...and I guess that using the 4 litre motorsport engine in the tail will help to bring the GT4 back on terms with the Aston. but look at the cost!

Old GT4 cars make a really nice platform for Club Enduro or Roadsports or even Britcar...but I don't see many Am drivers going for these unless the residuals are so poor that the cars end up being £130k ish when they've done a season or two ? I really like the Cayman GT4 club sport. Great little racing car. It shall be missed.

But it is the same in the GT3 class as well, Porsche simply are no where compared to AMG, BMW, McLaren, Audi, Ferrari and even Lexus in some races. Look at recent N24 results, LeMans 24hrs and the Spa 24hrs qualifying positions for this weekend. Porsche are getting whooped.

Perhaps that's why the new 992.2 GT3 RS is rumoured to be Turbocharged, so that they can homologiate for the race series, and produce a Turbo engine that can compete with the other manufacturers..

I think that's a huge part of why the new 992.2 RS (I deliberately - didn't call it 3RS because I think there might be a change here also - notice how the 911 Cup is only called Cup now... and not GT3 Cup) - back to the main point... Turbocharging just gives them so many more options wrt power delivery and torque.. they have hit the hard limit of what can be done with the NA engines at that capacity.

[acwh]

Schuey_911 said:

PorscheGirl said:

I kind of get it. The GT4 Cayman isn't as competitive under the current GT4 rules as the old car was. These new turbo vantages and M2s have so much torque. It's really crazy...and I guess that using the 4 litre motorsport engine in the tail will help to bring the GT4 back on terms with the Aston. but look at the cost!

Old GT4 cars make a really nice platform for Club Enduro or Roadsports or even Britcar...but I don't see many Am drivers going for these unless the residuals are so poor that the cars end up being £130k ish when they've done a season or two ? I really like the Cayman GT4 club sport. Great little racing car. It shall be missed.

But it is the same in the GT3 class as well, Porsche simply are no where compared to AMG, BMW, McLaren, Audi, Ferrari and even Lexus in some races. Look at recent N24 results, LeMans 24hrs and the Spa 24hrs qualifying positions for this weekend. Porsche are getting whooped.

Perhaps that's why the new 992.2 GT3 RS is rumoured to be Turbocharged, so that they can homologiate for the race series, and produce a Turbo engine that can compete with the other manufacturers..

Is that universally true? Didn t Porsche take titles in IMSA (GTP, GT3 was OK) and WEC (GT3, with good showing in LMH) just last season? The opposition hasn t changed much, the BoP has.

Estre and co would’ve fought for the win at N24 without the shunt.

Edited by acwh on Friday 26th June 15:53

Edited by acwh on Friday 26th June 15:54

[Schuey_911]

acwh said:

Edited by acwh on Friday 26th June 15:54

Both the Winward Mercedes cars were much quicker than the Grello Porsche, I don't think Estre and Co would have been in the mix of the top 3. Just going by the qualifying times Porsche was off the pace there too, and normally Nurburgring is the place for them..

[Schuey_911]

TDT said:

I think that's a huge part of why the new 992.2 RS (I deliberately - didn't call it 3RS because I think there might be a change here also - notice how the 911 Cup is only called Cup now... and not GT3 Cup) - back to the main point... Turbocharging just gives them so many more options wrt power delivery and torque.. they have hit the hard limit of what can be done with the NA engines at that capacity.

I agree TDT.

[ffc]

Schuey_911 said:

But it is the same in the GT3 class as well, Porsche simply are no where compared to AMG, BMW, McLaren, Audi, Ferrari and even Lexus in some races. Look at recent N24 results, LeMans 24hrs and the Spa 24hrs qualifying positions for this weekend. Porsche are getting whooped.

Perhaps that's why the new 992.2 GT3 RS is rumoured to be Turbocharged, so that they can homologiate for the race series, and produce a Turbo engine that can compete with the other manufacturers..

911's came 1st and 3rd at NLS 6 last weekend.

[130R]

Corvette Z06 GT3.R is currently the best GT3 car leading both LMGT3 in WEC and GTD Pro in IMSA with .. a naturally aspirated 5.5L V8. So that kind of disproves that you need a turbocharged engine.

[Schuey_911]

ffc said:

911's came 1st and 3rd at NLS 6 last weekend.

That's not really a measure though, as the big name drivers weren't there. Porsche really need to raise their game, the only place they regularly win races these days is in the Carrera Cup!! lol

Even their best drivers now like Kevin Estre and Laurens Vanthoor are getting others contracts outside of Porsche, may be only a matter of time where they find a permanent new manufacturer.

[I 8 a 4RE]

The N/A argument is flawed.

AMG GT3 runs the old (!!) 6.3 N/A V8 and Lamborghini was fastest on the Dottinger Hohe in the NLS24.

Corvette won LeMans and Lexus finished second, both in NA engines cars

[Schuey_911]

I 8 a 4RE said:

The N/A argument is flawed.

AMG GT3 runs the old (!!) 6.3 N/A V8 and Lamborghini was fastest on the Dottinger Hohe in the NLS24.

Corvette won LeMans and Lexus finished second, both in NA engines cars

It's not flawed though is it. There's only so much Porsche can do with the current 4.0/4.2 flat six engine, and as TDT said, they've hit a brick wall now and reached the limits of that engine. Porsche doesn't have the option of bigger capacity engines like the Mercedes 6.2 V8 or a Lambo/Audi V10. They need another engine setup they can homologiate and therefore, Turbo charging is probably the easier and cheaper option for them. Let's see how it goes.

[I 8 a 4RE]

Well done for ignoring all the evidence and holding onto your opinion.

I guess a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

The point is valid for road cars (see track test by Randy Pobst GT3RS, Corvette ZR1, Mustang Dark Horse), but not in a tightly homologated, BOP racing series.

[ChrisW.]

TDT said:

Schuey_911 said:

PorscheGirl said:

I kind of get it. The GT4 Cayman isn't as competitive under the current GT4 rules as the old car was. These new turbo vantages and M2s have so much torque. It's really crazy...and I guess that using the 4 litre motorsport engine in the tail will help to bring the GT4 back on terms with the Aston. but look at the cost!

Old GT4 cars make a really nice platform for Club Enduro or Roadsports or even Britcar...but I don't see many Am drivers going for these unless the residuals are so poor that the cars end up being £130k ish when they've done a season or two ? I really like the Cayman GT4 club sport. Great little racing car. It shall be missed.

But it is the same in the GT3 class as well, Porsche simply are no where compared to AMG, BMW, McLaren, Audi, Ferrari and even Lexus in some races. Look at recent N24 results, LeMans 24hrs and the Spa 24hrs qualifying positions for this weekend. Porsche are getting whooped.

Perhaps that's why the new 992.2 GT3 RS is rumoured to be Turbocharged, so that they can homologiate for the race series, and produce a Turbo engine that can compete with the other manufacturers..

I think that's a huge part of why the new 992.2 RS (I deliberately - didn't call it 3RS because I think there might be a change here also - notice how the 911 Cup is only called Cup now... and not GT3 Cup) - back to the main point... Turbocharging just gives them so many more options wrt power delivery and torque.. they have hit the hard limit of what can be done with the NA engines at that capacity.

I agree, they also have to manage the heat ... hence dispensing with the frunk in exchange for a radiator, and the weight distribution still isn't really helping them ...

Question, do they need a new car ?