Motorway incident mismanagement
Discussion
Yet another national news item about hapless motorists imprisoned for hours on a M-way; yesterday in dangerously hot conditions on the M25. I'm surprised there isn't a national outcry about this all too frequent occurence. Why wasn't traffic stopped at the previous junction, and those beyond it turned round to exit there? It's plenty wide enough. (This happens on my local narrower A14 which pretends to be a M-way). The usual police excuse that 'it's a crime scene......how would you like it if it wasn't investigated' which was once said to me, is just not good enough.
I had cause to think about this this week, no air-con in my car, so if we got held for hours it would quite literally be dangerous in the 37/38deg heat we've had. Obviously I wouldnt just sit there and wait to die, I'd get out and find some shade or beg to sit in with someone with a car built this century but still...
So this week I took the long way home from office over Exmoor, instead of the A361/M5, for exactly that reason.
Before they put those concrete barriers everywhere, there used to be points where the authorities could make a gap through to the other carriageway to release the trapped cars, if it became apparent it was going to be a long one. And/or they would turn you around and escort you back up the wrong way.
Now it seems, f
k it, you are there for as long as it takes.
So this week I took the long way home from office over Exmoor, instead of the A361/M5, for exactly that reason.
Before they put those concrete barriers everywhere, there used to be points where the authorities could make a gap through to the other carriageway to release the trapped cars, if it became apparent it was going to be a long one. And/or they would turn you around and escort you back up the wrong way.
Now it seems, f
k it, you are there for as long as it takes.Leveret said:
Yet another national news item about hapless motorists imprisoned for hours on a M-way; yesterday in dangerously hot conditions on the M25. I'm surprised there isn't a national outcry about this all too frequent occurence. Why wasn't traffic stopped at the previous junction, and those beyond it turned round to exit there? It's plenty wide enough. (This happens on my local narrower A14 which pretends to be a M-way). The usual police excuse that 'it's a crime scene......how would you like it if it wasn't investigated' which was once said to me, is just not good enough.
How long were you held up for?Having experienced it a few months back, it's the number of police/ highways crew needed to close the previous junction, manage the turn around, manage the junction. Even with the the old barriers they'd need a crew to remove the section, manage traffic on the other carriage way etc.
And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
The police seem to take a perverse joy in road closures . A single vehicle accident is treated like the cirme of the century , with roads being closed for hours - such as a case near me on the only main road to the east coast. Poor guy on a bike hit a deer and was killed . Awful for family but an 8 hour closure for 'investigations' . Such as interviewing the deer's relatives ,or what ? Closing a road out of respect?? Still, I guess it saves turning up to the Co-op next time it's shoplifted .
mcdjl said:
Having experienced it a few months back, it's the number of police/ highways crew needed to close the previous junction, manage the turn around, manage the junction. Even with the the old barriers they'd need a crew to remove the section, manage traffic on the other carriage way etc.
And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
So we just turn an accident with one hospitalisation into another incident with more than 10 put in hospital instead? Which is what happened here, it was a complete break down in communication and responsibly from the agencies involved starting with the police (what a huge surprise) And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
You got a threat to life red heat warning and hundreds of cars stuck in the searing heat for 8-10 hours, all of it in full visibility of the traffic cameras, the highways agency are aware the police are aware, yet it takes the victims of this farce to contact their MP for that MP to get onto social media to eventually get the agencies to take some action.
Everywhere you care to look in this country it's nothing but excuses and incompetence.
Wills2 said:
mcdjl said:
Having experienced it a few months back, it's the number of police/ highways crew needed to close the previous junction, manage the turn around, manage the junction. Even with the the old barriers they'd need a crew to remove the section, manage traffic on the other carriage way etc.
And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
So we just turn an accident with one hospitalisation into another incident with more than 10 put in hospital instead? Which is what happened here, it was a complete break down in communication and responsibly from the agencies involved starting with the police (what a huge surprise) And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
You got a threat to life red heat warning and hundreds of cars stuck in the searing heat for 8-10 hours, all of it in full visibility of the traffic cameras, the highways agency are aware the police are aware, yet it takes the victims of this farce to contact their MP for that MP to get onto social media to eventually get the agencies to take some action.
Everywhere you care to look in this country it's nothing but excuses and incompetence.
Wills2 said:
mcdjl said:
Having experienced it a few months back, it's the number of police/ highways crew needed to close the previous junction, manage the turn around, manage the junction. Even with the the old barriers they'd need a crew to remove the section, manage traffic on the other carriage way etc.
And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
So we just turn an accident with one hospitalisation into another incident with more than 10 put in hospital instead? Which is what happened here, it was a complete break down in communication and responsibly from the agencies involved starting with the police (what a huge surprise) And then once you're turned around the local road to bypass it will gridlock as sat nav sends you all the same way, so you just back the locals off as well.
You got a threat to life red heat warning and hundreds of cars stuck in the searing heat for 8-10 hours, all of it in full visibility of the traffic cameras, the highways agency are aware the police are aware, yet it takes the victims of this farce to contact their MP for that MP to get onto social media to eventually get the agencies to take some action.
Everywhere you care to look in this country it's nothing but excuses and incompetence.
It’s incompetence but probably driven by excessive regulation. Common sense can no longer be applied to resolve issues. No longer this country has a can do attitude by fear of being sued or not all the boxes ticked.
Some will say the rules and regulations are there to offer protection to workers and public but sometimes some flexibility should be encouraged and appropriate.
On a recent visit to USA I could see the can do attitude they have compared to ours. It was refreshing just to have jobs done.
Some will say the rules and regulations are there to offer protection to workers and public but sometimes some flexibility should be encouraged and appropriate.
On a recent visit to USA I could see the can do attitude they have compared to ours. It was refreshing just to have jobs done.
Ah yes, the police should just open and deploy the big box of water distributing specialists each with 1000 bottles of water that they keep in reserve for just this very incident, heaven forbid it get even hotter then they'd have to deploy the police ice cream support unit vans kept for such a purpose !
Anyway now for the serious answer
The motorways are managed, patrolled and run by Highways England on behalf of the Dept of Transport
The Police, like the Fire brigade and ambulance service respond to incidents on it to assist HE
There are detailed and extensive plans and contingencies in place to divert and evacuate motorists stranded by an incident
Every junction has diversion routes clearly marked
The worst place to be stuck is directly behind the incident where you will be the first ones there and the last ones released
The best place is just by the last junction before the incident where you will either be diverted off or turned around to exit the motorway via the entry ramp
A busy motorway can grind to a halt at the rate of about a mile a minute of closure and there can be thousands of vehicles and multiples of that in people stuck
The priority of the emergency services is to deal with the incident
The management of traffic is the responsibility of Highways England not the 999 services
The dedicated motorway Police units were disbanded, their control rooms and bases closed and the years of experience and knowledge lost because the Gov didn't want the Police patrolling and managing the network as it was a waste of Police resources when it could be patrolled by civilians (far cheaper) and traffic laws enforced by cameras (far more effective)
But anyway carry on, because it's clearly the fault of the Police because everything is the fault of the Police everyone knows that
Anyway now for the serious answer
The motorways are managed, patrolled and run by Highways England on behalf of the Dept of Transport
The Police, like the Fire brigade and ambulance service respond to incidents on it to assist HE
There are detailed and extensive plans and contingencies in place to divert and evacuate motorists stranded by an incident
Every junction has diversion routes clearly marked
The worst place to be stuck is directly behind the incident where you will be the first ones there and the last ones released
The best place is just by the last junction before the incident where you will either be diverted off or turned around to exit the motorway via the entry ramp
A busy motorway can grind to a halt at the rate of about a mile a minute of closure and there can be thousands of vehicles and multiples of that in people stuck
The priority of the emergency services is to deal with the incident
The management of traffic is the responsibility of Highways England not the 999 services
The dedicated motorway Police units were disbanded, their control rooms and bases closed and the years of experience and knowledge lost because the Gov didn't want the Police patrolling and managing the network as it was a waste of Police resources when it could be patrolled by civilians (far cheaper) and traffic laws enforced by cameras (far more effective)
But anyway carry on, because it's clearly the fault of the Police because everything is the fault of the Police everyone knows that
CrgT16 said:
It s incompetence but probably driven by excessive regulation. Common sense can no longer be applied to resolve issues. No longer this country has a can do attitude by fear of being sued or not all the boxes ticked.
Some will say the rules and regulations are there to offer protection to workers and public but sometimes some flexibility should be encouraged and appropriate.
On a recent visit to USA I could see the can do attitude they have compared to ours. It was refreshing just to have jobs done.
US freeways are incredibly dangerous, more US Cops are killed every year dealing with accidents on them than by violent crime Some will say the rules and regulations are there to offer protection to workers and public but sometimes some flexibility should be encouraged and appropriate.
On a recent visit to USA I could see the can do attitude they have compared to ours. It was refreshing just to have jobs done.
Their total incompetence and lack of safety protocols leads to hundreds of deaths each year of responders
It really isn't an example to hold up as best practice
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