ND2 Mazda MX5 - BBR Super 200
Discussion
Evening all,
Here is my MX5, or to give its full name - Mazda MX5 184 Sport Nav+. Owned for two and half years covering approximately 15,000 miles.
I'm sure most on Pistonheads know this, being an MX5 and all, but it's an 'ND2' with the revised 2.0 litre naturally aspirated engine developing 180-ish bhp. When doing my research a common opinion was this was the better engine compared to the previous 2.0 engine, which was hastily developed for the American market and whilst torquey, was a little asthmatic at higher revs.
Good bits
Its a pretty glorious little thing. So analogue compared to modern cars with no irritating beeps, bongs, lane assists. When warm, it has probably the best gearbox I've tried, even compared to my previous NA and S2000. The ND MX5 is light and small, closer to size and weight to the original NA than the NC, so performance is pretty good. Similar to warm hatches I'd say.
Personally I like the look, particular the front 3/4, and there is plenty of kit for what is a middling spec trim level (heated seats, basic cruise, xenon lights). I did pay to get Apple Car Play installed which makes it even more usable with the nav, spotify etc.
The fuel economy is pretty great! I take a great deal of pleasure driving smoothly at normal speeds and it's quite frugal - on a run, you can get even higher as demonstrated on a recent Kent to Cornwall run fully loaded up and achieving 55mpg. Surprising comfortable too, no aches and pains after 300+miles.
The not so good bits
As amazing as the MX5 is out the box, for me it's pretty far from perfect. I'm a fairly average size and height but I wouldn't want to be any taller as its pretty cramped inside. The seat isn't great, feels like I'm sitting on it rather than in - it's too narrow at the shoulders so doesn't grip that well when cornering. I also feel like I can never get the driving position absolutely spot on either. I want to be lower, sit further back and have the steering wheel closer (even though the ND2 adjusts for rake and reach).
Whilst the engine is good, to me it still felt a little wheezy and unrewarding to rev to 7,000 RPM - especially compared to my previous car, a Cupra 290 which required attention not to bounce off the limiter.
The brakes are okay. They require a fairly firm shove to really bite, but they are easy to modulate and you can tell what is happening.
Engine and exhaust note are somewhat tepid - it's not a great 4 cylinder engine aurally.
When cornering, the car pitches somewhat disconcertingly before settling - there's loads of grip but you have to get through the wallowy feeling before you find it. I appreciate its been tuned for nasty UK roads though, and like I mentioned, its comfortable.
Mods
As I love the car, I thought I'd address some of the 'shortcomings'. The first step last summer was a trip to BBR GTi to get their 'Super 200' kit installed.
This involved a fancy manifold (I went for the catted option), a cold air feed with uprated filter and a software update. I also chose a BBR 'GT' backbox, which is the subtle option.
This little lot was NOT cheap, but has made a huge difference to the way it drives. At 200bhp and 175 lb ft of torque it's a quick little car! The lowdown urge is pretty noticeable in all gears and makes it easier to make progress without thrashing. The exhaust note I'd describe as 'OEM+', its much nicer than the original but still subtle.
Future mods
Plan for the future is to keep it long term and slowly upgrade the bits and pieces as I go.
I'll be heading back to BBR GTi later in the summer to get lowering springs and alignment, plus the centre section exhaust to release a little more power. I might also swap out the GT for a 'Supersport' backbox for more noise, but need to give it a try as the last thing I want is any droning.
Further in the future maybe the Super 220 kit would be worth a look, as to me it feels more in keeping with the character of the car than forced induction. I'd quite like some lighter alloy wheels and possibly bigger brakes. The OEM aero pack looks pretty great to me, but seem pricey for what it is.
Other than that I'd be very interested in what other ND owners had done mod wise, particularly around the seats, driving position and styling
Thanks for reading.
Here is my MX5, or to give its full name - Mazda MX5 184 Sport Nav+. Owned for two and half years covering approximately 15,000 miles.
I'm sure most on Pistonheads know this, being an MX5 and all, but it's an 'ND2' with the revised 2.0 litre naturally aspirated engine developing 180-ish bhp. When doing my research a common opinion was this was the better engine compared to the previous 2.0 engine, which was hastily developed for the American market and whilst torquey, was a little asthmatic at higher revs.
Good bits
Its a pretty glorious little thing. So analogue compared to modern cars with no irritating beeps, bongs, lane assists. When warm, it has probably the best gearbox I've tried, even compared to my previous NA and S2000. The ND MX5 is light and small, closer to size and weight to the original NA than the NC, so performance is pretty good. Similar to warm hatches I'd say.
Personally I like the look, particular the front 3/4, and there is plenty of kit for what is a middling spec trim level (heated seats, basic cruise, xenon lights). I did pay to get Apple Car Play installed which makes it even more usable with the nav, spotify etc.
The fuel economy is pretty great! I take a great deal of pleasure driving smoothly at normal speeds and it's quite frugal - on a run, you can get even higher as demonstrated on a recent Kent to Cornwall run fully loaded up and achieving 55mpg. Surprising comfortable too, no aches and pains after 300+miles.
The not so good bits
As amazing as the MX5 is out the box, for me it's pretty far from perfect. I'm a fairly average size and height but I wouldn't want to be any taller as its pretty cramped inside. The seat isn't great, feels like I'm sitting on it rather than in - it's too narrow at the shoulders so doesn't grip that well when cornering. I also feel like I can never get the driving position absolutely spot on either. I want to be lower, sit further back and have the steering wheel closer (even though the ND2 adjusts for rake and reach).
Whilst the engine is good, to me it still felt a little wheezy and unrewarding to rev to 7,000 RPM - especially compared to my previous car, a Cupra 290 which required attention not to bounce off the limiter.
The brakes are okay. They require a fairly firm shove to really bite, but they are easy to modulate and you can tell what is happening.
Engine and exhaust note are somewhat tepid - it's not a great 4 cylinder engine aurally.
When cornering, the car pitches somewhat disconcertingly before settling - there's loads of grip but you have to get through the wallowy feeling before you find it. I appreciate its been tuned for nasty UK roads though, and like I mentioned, its comfortable.
Mods
As I love the car, I thought I'd address some of the 'shortcomings'. The first step last summer was a trip to BBR GTi to get their 'Super 200' kit installed.
This involved a fancy manifold (I went for the catted option), a cold air feed with uprated filter and a software update. I also chose a BBR 'GT' backbox, which is the subtle option.
This little lot was NOT cheap, but has made a huge difference to the way it drives. At 200bhp and 175 lb ft of torque it's a quick little car! The lowdown urge is pretty noticeable in all gears and makes it easier to make progress without thrashing. The exhaust note I'd describe as 'OEM+', its much nicer than the original but still subtle.
Future mods
Plan for the future is to keep it long term and slowly upgrade the bits and pieces as I go.
I'll be heading back to BBR GTi later in the summer to get lowering springs and alignment, plus the centre section exhaust to release a little more power. I might also swap out the GT for a 'Supersport' backbox for more noise, but need to give it a try as the last thing I want is any droning.
Further in the future maybe the Super 220 kit would be worth a look, as to me it feels more in keeping with the character of the car than forced induction. I'd quite like some lighter alloy wheels and possibly bigger brakes. The OEM aero pack looks pretty great to me, but seem pricey for what it is.
Other than that I'd be very interested in what other ND owners had done mod wise, particularly around the seats, driving position and styling
Thanks for reading.
Edited by JFReturns on Sunday 28th June 18:57
Joehow said:
Awesome! I love these! Brilliant car!
Thanks! They’re a lot of fun and a great antidote to massive, heavy safety ridden modern cars 
911Spanker said:
As a long time Caterham owner these appeal hugely.
I would imagine they’re 80% as much fun with 80% more practicality than a Caterham!molineux1980 said:
Watching with interest. I've had a NA 1.6, we currently have a 1.8 NC and I can see a 2.0 ND in our future :-)
Seems like a natural progression Although I think the ND is a little tighter in the cabin than the NC Small update, ahead of the next BBR GTi visit I wanted my local Mazda specialist to give the MX5 a once over. Clean bill of health other than rear brakes needed which I’ll get done at the next service.
There was no record of differential oil change so got that done, but also gearbox oil.
The ND2 gearboxes are known to be robust compared to the earlier ND1s and later ND3s, but it’s a common complaint they can be notchy and recalcitrant when cold. They really need a good 20 minutes to fully heat to get that slick change.
However, after the latest oil change it feels pretty great including from cold. So I thought I’d do a post to see what other ND2 owners use. I’ll reserve full judgement until the winter of course…
There was no record of differential oil change so got that done, but also gearbox oil.
The ND2 gearboxes are known to be robust compared to the earlier ND1s and later ND3s, but it’s a common complaint they can be notchy and recalcitrant when cold. They really need a good 20 minutes to fully heat to get that slick change.
However, after the latest oil change it feels pretty great including from cold. So I thought I’d do a post to see what other ND2 owners use. I’ll reserve full judgement until the winter of course…
Lovely car! I have an ND1 in Soul Red and love it. I fitted the MX5 Parts stainless steel backbox which is simialr as to how you describe your car, OEM+
I also fitted Eibach lowering springs. One thing I was looking at was the OEM Mazda black bodykit but it is very expensive for what it is. Instead I got the Maxton design kit which is very similar and very well made and sets it off really nicely. Will post pics when I'm at home.
I also fitted Eibach lowering springs. One thing I was looking at was the OEM Mazda black bodykit but it is very expensive for what it is. Instead I got the Maxton design kit which is very similar and very well made and sets it off really nicely. Will post pics when I'm at home.
There is an interview on YT I think with Dave Coleman regarding the 2 litre option being added before launch. As you must know these cars are not about power but driving enjoyment. It was designed around the 1.5, which was ported, cammed, mapped etc for about 130hp redlining at 7500rpm.
There was a discussion with the US distributors who complained that Americans would not buy a 1.5 and in any case it wasn't fast enough, by which they meant that the 0-60 time was longer than some other cars including fairly unremarkable "sedans". So they took the 2 litre Skyactiv-G straight from the Mazda 3 and put that in for an extra 30hp.
In 2017 I decided I would buy an ND. I drove both the 1.5 and the 2 litre Sport Nav with the sports suspension and the LSD. I strongly preferred the 1.5 and bought one, which I still have about 40,000 miles later, much of that mileage on European tours which we still do - the next trip being the Pyrenees later this year.
I drove the 1.5 first in my back-to back tests and found I was hitting the limiter in the 2 litre with its redline at 6800. Basically the big change for the ND2 was doing to the engine what they had already done on the 1.5.
I haven't done any 'performance' modifications. It's a 'momentum' car, obviously, but plenty fast enough when required. I don't care about power and acceleration times within reason. I spent £400 having the underside and cavities treated with Bilt Hamber clear wax, and there is zero visible rust on the underside. I strongly recommend rust protection if you are in the UK.
I do one gentle track day each year just for the fun of driving at illegal speeds and enjoying the grip to an extent that would be irresponsible on a public road. I wouldn't lower one of these although many do. The 1.5 is more compliant and rolls a bit more, you'd want to fix that for racing otherwise you wouldn't win, otherwise I like it very much. The OE tyre on the 1.5 is the Yokohama Advan Sport V105, a very stiff walled tyre that I like very much and I won't use anything else while I can get them. There is hardly any choice of UHP tyres for the 1.5, many more for the 2 litre. I'd give Goodyear Eagle F1 Asy 6 a try on the 2 litre if you don't like the Bridgestones. I use them on my BRZ.
Despite the compliance I can't identify your wallowing on the 1.5. It's neutral in the dry on a maintenance throttle and I have total confidence in it. I found the 2 lire sports suspension on the ND1 quite skittish on the broken surfaces that are common on rural roads (a track is a different matter entirely) and the 1.5 coped better on my 30 minute test route.
As mentioned I have a BRZ which has a bit more grunt but it has not detracted from my enthusiasm for driving the MX-5.
Incidentally I don't think you should find the brakes heavy although like nearly all cars now mine could use a harder pedal. Maybe you just need pads with more bite. I found the OEM ones very good and low dust, but I replaced them last year with some TRW Cotex ones (actually because they came with the fitting kit which were out of stock with MX5parts). They were quite bitey right off the bat although they are making more dust. The 'Cotex' part is a gritty black layer that is supposed to negate the need to bed them in).
You're right about the standard seats. Unless they have changed, they have none of the usual foam or springs, they are supported by webbing and have no lumbar support. For a while they gave me back ache after a couple of hours but I seem to have inured to them now. It is possible to put stiffening and padding in the back if you unzip the covers, I haven't bothered.
I got the "sitting on" feeling when I tried a car with the Recaros, but I don't feel that with the standard seat,
There was a discussion with the US distributors who complained that Americans would not buy a 1.5 and in any case it wasn't fast enough, by which they meant that the 0-60 time was longer than some other cars including fairly unremarkable "sedans". So they took the 2 litre Skyactiv-G straight from the Mazda 3 and put that in for an extra 30hp.
In 2017 I decided I would buy an ND. I drove both the 1.5 and the 2 litre Sport Nav with the sports suspension and the LSD. I strongly preferred the 1.5 and bought one, which I still have about 40,000 miles later, much of that mileage on European tours which we still do - the next trip being the Pyrenees later this year.
I drove the 1.5 first in my back-to back tests and found I was hitting the limiter in the 2 litre with its redline at 6800. Basically the big change for the ND2 was doing to the engine what they had already done on the 1.5.
I haven't done any 'performance' modifications. It's a 'momentum' car, obviously, but plenty fast enough when required. I don't care about power and acceleration times within reason. I spent £400 having the underside and cavities treated with Bilt Hamber clear wax, and there is zero visible rust on the underside. I strongly recommend rust protection if you are in the UK.
I do one gentle track day each year just for the fun of driving at illegal speeds and enjoying the grip to an extent that would be irresponsible on a public road. I wouldn't lower one of these although many do. The 1.5 is more compliant and rolls a bit more, you'd want to fix that for racing otherwise you wouldn't win, otherwise I like it very much. The OE tyre on the 1.5 is the Yokohama Advan Sport V105, a very stiff walled tyre that I like very much and I won't use anything else while I can get them. There is hardly any choice of UHP tyres for the 1.5, many more for the 2 litre. I'd give Goodyear Eagle F1 Asy 6 a try on the 2 litre if you don't like the Bridgestones. I use them on my BRZ.
Despite the compliance I can't identify your wallowing on the 1.5. It's neutral in the dry on a maintenance throttle and I have total confidence in it. I found the 2 lire sports suspension on the ND1 quite skittish on the broken surfaces that are common on rural roads (a track is a different matter entirely) and the 1.5 coped better on my 30 minute test route.
As mentioned I have a BRZ which has a bit more grunt but it has not detracted from my enthusiasm for driving the MX-5.
Incidentally I don't think you should find the brakes heavy although like nearly all cars now mine could use a harder pedal. Maybe you just need pads with more bite. I found the OEM ones very good and low dust, but I replaced them last year with some TRW Cotex ones (actually because they came with the fitting kit which were out of stock with MX5parts). They were quite bitey right off the bat although they are making more dust. The 'Cotex' part is a gritty black layer that is supposed to negate the need to bed them in).
You're right about the standard seats. Unless they have changed, they have none of the usual foam or springs, they are supported by webbing and have no lumbar support. For a while they gave me back ache after a couple of hours but I seem to have inured to them now. It is possible to put stiffening and padding in the back if you unzip the covers, I haven't bothered.
I got the "sitting on" feeling when I tried a car with the Recaros, but I don't feel that with the standard seat,
Edited by Manatee on Thursday 9th July 14:47
Wife had an ND1 1.5 and I had an ND2 184 on order at one point, my thoughts match yours on handling etc. Great cars though, top down at every opportunity.
I had planned to take mine to BBR too if I ever got it, was during covid and I cancelled the order for life related reasons.
Cool cars, all these short comings should be easily resolvable. Only thing I didnt like was the steering. Not sure any changes to steering bushes, suspension or geometry would have fixed that. I guess out the box it would suit 90% of owners fine, and those that want to make changes could easily do so.
Eventually ended up in a GR86, like your BRZ I guess. Would be nice to have an MX5 or S2000 sat along side it.
I had planned to take mine to BBR too if I ever got it, was during covid and I cancelled the order for life related reasons.
Cool cars, all these short comings should be easily resolvable. Only thing I didnt like was the steering. Not sure any changes to steering bushes, suspension or geometry would have fixed that. I guess out the box it would suit 90% of owners fine, and those that want to make changes could easily do so.
Eventually ended up in a GR86, like your BRZ I guess. Would be nice to have an MX5 or S2000 sat along side it.
Pablo Escobar said:
Essential for me, having tried the hopeless stock ND seats. I agree about the ND1 2.0 lacking top end, but it does have quite a bit of grunt for it's size. Almost the opposite of the GT86
The ND2 revs beautifully, I'd be happy with one stock. I would be interested to see an independent dyno before / after for the BBR conversion.
Edited by TwoStrokeNut on Friday 10th July 12:38
maxwellwd said:
Lovely car! I have an ND1 in Soul Red and love it. I fitted the MX5 Parts stainless steel backbox which is simialr as to how you describe your car, OEM+
I also fitted Eibach lowering springs. One thing I was looking at was the OEM Mazda black bodykit but it is very expensive for what it is. Instead I got the Maxton design kit which is very similar and very well made and sets it off really nicely. Will post pics when I'm at home.
The Soul Red is a stunning colour. Interested in your Maxton kit.I also fitted Eibach lowering springs. One thing I was looking at was the OEM Mazda black bodykit but it is very expensive for what it is. Instead I got the Maxton design kit which is very similar and very well made and sets it off really nicely. Will post pics when I'm at home.
TwoStrokeNut said:
Essential for me, having tried the hopeless stock ND seats.
I agree about the ND1 2.0 lacking top end, but it does have quite a bit of grunt for it's size. Almost the opposite of the GT86
The ND2 revs beautifully, I'd be happy with one stock. I would be interested to see an independent dyno before / after for the BBR conversion.
I’d be interested too. To me the power claims seem realistic, you can definitely feel the difference.I agree about the ND1 2.0 lacking top end, but it does have quite a bit of grunt for it's size. Almost the opposite of the GT86
The ND2 revs beautifully, I'd be happy with one stock. I would be interested to see an independent dyno before / after for the BBR conversion.
Edited by TwoStrokeNut on Friday 10th July 12:38
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