Big ends gone - worth repairing
Discussion
One of our vans has gone kaput recently so I stripped it down last weekend and its the shells/crank that have gone. You could tell just by the sound of it to be fair, sounded like a loads of rocks were in the sump.
This is what it looks like.
Bearing in mind the van (2017 new shape citroen dispatch 1.6 HDI) has done practically 200,000 miles, needs a windscreen, new disks and pads, new timing belt, new clutch and all the other things you would do whilst its stripped down, is it worth doing anything with.
I can get a S/H crankshaft off ebay for about £80 and shells for £30 but what will the big end's themselves be like, I've roughly measured them all top to bottom and they all measure the same down to half a mm or so, yes I know you are supposed to use a depth gauge or inside callipers or something a bit more accurate than a steel rule but that's all I've got. The picture is of the worst big end rod of the 4.
A second hand running engine is about £1200 off ebay so I don't want to really go down that route, by the time we've spend that and everything else on it we could probably scrap this one and get a newer decent one with the money instead. The other problem I may have is as I just stripped it down to see what's wrong with it I didn't really take much notice of which bolt went where and now there are lots of them in various containers along my bench.
Couple of questions though, what caused it in the first place, it had plenty of oil in it when I drained it and the top end looks like new, no wear at all on the lobes or followers. But when I took the oil pump off a couple of small roller bearings seemed to fall out of it, they look like the ones that fall out of the cam followers when they are destroyed by a snapped cam belt. Its possible it has snapped in the past and been repaired previous to our ownership and not cleaned out well enough, maybe the roller bearings jammed the oil pump, or maybe they are from the pump itself.
Also does anyone know about the DV6 engines, I think ours is the DV6FDU one, its certainly an 8V unit and not a 16V would a block from say an earlier engine a DV6C or similar be the same as ours so I could swap everything else onto that one, the earlier engines are a lot cheaper. I don't mind tinkering with stuff if it doesn't cost much money.
This is what it looks like.
Bearing in mind the van (2017 new shape citroen dispatch 1.6 HDI) has done practically 200,000 miles, needs a windscreen, new disks and pads, new timing belt, new clutch and all the other things you would do whilst its stripped down, is it worth doing anything with.
I can get a S/H crankshaft off ebay for about £80 and shells for £30 but what will the big end's themselves be like, I've roughly measured them all top to bottom and they all measure the same down to half a mm or so, yes I know you are supposed to use a depth gauge or inside callipers or something a bit more accurate than a steel rule but that's all I've got. The picture is of the worst big end rod of the 4.
A second hand running engine is about £1200 off ebay so I don't want to really go down that route, by the time we've spend that and everything else on it we could probably scrap this one and get a newer decent one with the money instead. The other problem I may have is as I just stripped it down to see what's wrong with it I didn't really take much notice of which bolt went where and now there are lots of them in various containers along my bench.
Couple of questions though, what caused it in the first place, it had plenty of oil in it when I drained it and the top end looks like new, no wear at all on the lobes or followers. But when I took the oil pump off a couple of small roller bearings seemed to fall out of it, they look like the ones that fall out of the cam followers when they are destroyed by a snapped cam belt. Its possible it has snapped in the past and been repaired previous to our ownership and not cleaned out well enough, maybe the roller bearings jammed the oil pump, or maybe they are from the pump itself.
Also does anyone know about the DV6 engines, I think ours is the DV6FDU one, its certainly an 8V unit and not a 16V would a block from say an earlier engine a DV6C or similar be the same as ours so I could swap everything else onto that one, the earlier engines are a lot cheaper. I don't mind tinkering with stuff if it doesn't cost much money.
D_G said:
If you are measuring differences of a half a mm then that's safe to say it's toast 
The steel rule is only calibrated in mm, they may all be exactly the same but with my dodgy eyes all I can say is the difference was less than half a mm. I know it won't do another 200k but if I re-shell it with a second hand crank will it run ok-ish, its worth a lot more running than it is now.I've heard this story elsewhere recently. 
Assuming that's not a coincidence,
a) Post your engine code on the FCF thread and someone will likely find a halfway-sensibly priced motor/
b) The van's essentially worthless with the work needed, may be best to cut your losses, as even with all the work done it's still a 200k+ Citroen.
c) Putting shells into a f
ked engine to sell it on would be the work of a tt. I'm sure you won't be a tt.
Assuming that's not a coincidence,a) Post your engine code on the FCF thread and someone will likely find a halfway-sensibly priced motor/
b) The van's essentially worthless with the work needed, may be best to cut your losses, as even with all the work done it's still a 200k+ Citroen.
c) Putting shells into a f
ked engine to sell it on would be the work of a tt. I'm sure you won't be a tt.shtu said:
I've heard this story elsewhere recently. Assuming that's not a coincidence,
a) Post your engine code on the FCF thread and someone will likely find a halfway-sensibly priced motor/
b) The van's essentially worthless with the work needed, may be best to cut your losses, as even with all the work done it's still a 200k+ Citroen.
c) Putting shells into a fked engine to sell it on would be the work of a tt. I'm sure you won't be a tt.
I wouldn't sell it privately to another tradesman who's livelihood depended on it but I would PX it, the last van I had I was offered £150 in PX against one of the vans we bought, I sold it my mate for £160 instead. Everyone on here said I was mental for selling a van for so cheap as it was easily worth £500-600 at least, so no problems PX-ing it. Assuming that's not a coincidence,a) Post your engine code on the FCF thread and someone will likely find a halfway-sensibly priced motor/
b) The van's essentially worthless with the work needed, may be best to cut your losses, as even with all the work done it's still a 200k+ Citroen.
c) Putting shells into a f
ked engine to sell it on would be the work of a tt. I'm sure you won't be a tt.I have posted in the citron page of that website but only got a couple of answers really, they both said scrap it but didn't mention what would happen to the engine if I put shells on it, its probably the thread you have seen.
Just to add, when is something considered getting its moneys worth, we paid £6700 for it about 3 years ago and have done about 70,000 in in. The previous van we paid £5500 for and had it 5 years doing 130,000 in. So the van we currently have has cost us about £40 a week assuming its worth £1k or so as it is.
PX still makes it some poor schmuck's problem down the line - traders don't keep the trade-ins.
Seriously, it's scrap. Either trawl ebay for the right engine code for cheap, or get shot of it and move on. If every penny matters, break it yourself. Easier to do and a lot less work.
For other's benefit, here's the other thread, https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t...
Seriously, it's scrap. Either trawl ebay for the right engine code for cheap, or get shot of it and move on. If every penny matters, break it yourself. Easier to do and a lot less work.
For other's benefit, here's the other thread, https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t...
Edited by shtu on Wednesday 1st July 20:52
There's also the time and cost of rebuilding and reinstalling the engine to consider, against the amount of value doing so will add, as well as how much earnings you are losing while doing so.
If you take all that into consideration you could end up doing all that work and ending up out of pocket.
If you take all that into consideration you could end up doing all that work and ending up out of pocket.
My best option would be to break it myself but I've nowhere to store the parts long term until they are all sold, well I could fill my shed up but I don't like living in clutter. I agree though something like just the add blue tank is £200+ on ebay, gearbox £250. airbags and dash must be worth a bit
Frane Selak said:
My best option would be to break it myself but I've nowhere to store the parts long term until they are all sold, well I could fill my shed up but I don't like living in clutter. I agree though something like just the add blue tank is £200+ on ebay, gearbox £250. airbags and dash must be worth a bit
You don't live in your shed.thebraketester said:
Just buy a used remanufactured block.
This I thought was my best option and its why I started the thread on the FCF, but its getting the correct block, I know all the top ends are different, some have different pipework on the top, some the fuel filter is in a different place, the EGR etc are all in different places but would they really change the bottom end for each variation where its only for a bit of extra BHP or emissions target.Ours is the FDU engine but the only difference to the slightly earlier FD engine is some software I believe. Maybe even the earlier 16V engine block is identical, everything that mounts to the block like the alternator and AC pump has an adaptor bracket for it, nothing screws directly to the block.
Super Sonic said:
You don't live in your shed.
No but I put my drills in there every night out of the van, its also a pain in the arse if I can't get my mower out without clambering over stuff, I don't even like having half an engine in there at the moment. And to cap it all, all the stuff out of the van is now in my dining room because all the van bits have had to go in the back of the van, its amazing that all the stuff that sits on just the small front part of the van fills the entire back of it.Frane Selak said:
Super Sonic said:
You don't live in your shed.
No but I put my drills in there every night out of the van, its also a pain in the arse if I can't get my mower out without clambering over stuff, I don't even like having half an engine in there at the moment. And to cap it all, all the stuff out of the van is now in my dining room because all the van bits have had to go in the back of the van, its amazing that all the stuff that sits on just the small front part of the van fills the entire back of it.That crank looks horrendous, will nee a big grind to clean it up, is possible.
If a bearing has spun in a rod, the rod is scrap and will need replaced, or, if lucky machined and resized.
The debris will be through that engine everywhere
Worth ? If your time is free....maybe. But really engine needs a full strip down and clean. If the bearings are that bad, there could be damage to the camshaft area, maybe turbo damage, etc etc
It may not be totally apparent now, but just waiting for you. But the debris will be everywhere inside the oil system
If a bearing has spun in a rod, the rod is scrap and will need replaced, or, if lucky machined and resized.
The debris will be through that engine everywhere
Worth ? If your time is free....maybe. But really engine needs a full strip down and clean. If the bearings are that bad, there could be damage to the camshaft area, maybe turbo damage, etc etc
It may not be totally apparent now, but just waiting for you. But the debris will be everywhere inside the oil system
Ok, I know people will cringe and I've only done this to see if it could be done and to see if we could use the van for a while longer. But I prised the shells off the crank, give it a clean up with some emery and it didn't look too bad. I put it all together with a new set of shells for £25 and it actually started up again and didn't sound that bad. (there wasn't any play in the big ends with the new shells)
But after driving it no more than 1/2 a mile or so the oil pressure light comes on at idle, goes off once you drive it. Its not on at idle when the engine is cold. Could this really be the wear in the big ends after just half a mile or is it more likely to be a dodgy oil pump that caused all the problems in the first place.
The annoying thing is whilst waiting for the parts I properly cleaned the van up inside and out, got the dints out of the wing and door pretty much and it actually looks like a decent van again. The ECU engine light is still on but I've narrowed that down to a dodgy PAT fluid tank (elois) motor which is cheap enough to repair. All it needs now is a windscreen.
I still think its been worth doing, I must have doubled the price of it just by having a running engine now and I've learned a lot about the van, especially how easy the engines come in and out of these, I could probably have one out in under 2 hrs now so I'm not adverse to swapping the engine again if I can find one cheap enough.
But after driving it no more than 1/2 a mile or so the oil pressure light comes on at idle, goes off once you drive it. Its not on at idle when the engine is cold. Could this really be the wear in the big ends after just half a mile or is it more likely to be a dodgy oil pump that caused all the problems in the first place.
The annoying thing is whilst waiting for the parts I properly cleaned the van up inside and out, got the dints out of the wing and door pretty much and it actually looks like a decent van again. The ECU engine light is still on but I've narrowed that down to a dodgy PAT fluid tank (elois) motor which is cheap enough to repair. All it needs now is a windscreen.
I still think its been worth doing, I must have doubled the price of it just by having a running engine now and I've learned a lot about the van, especially how easy the engines come in and out of these, I could probably have one out in under 2 hrs now so I'm not adverse to swapping the engine again if I can find one cheap enough.
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