Regional accent discrimination?
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2d2mnmqg3o
Personally I think it's b
ks. 21st century Brits practice code-switching in my experience. We all have regional accents and in formal or professional settings we tone them down into something more neutral. RP was never a regional accent, and I can't recall the last time I heard a real RP accent, especially not from someone in politics or industry.
I've had the piss ripped out of me when I've been away from home, but it's banter. Not discrimination.
Has anyone here experienced discrimination because of their accent? Is she just a whingeing old lady?
Personally I think it's b
ks. 21st century Brits practice code-switching in my experience. We all have regional accents and in formal or professional settings we tone them down into something more neutral. RP was never a regional accent, and I can't recall the last time I heard a real RP accent, especially not from someone in politics or industry.I've had the piss ripped out of me when I've been away from home, but it's banter. Not discrimination.
Has anyone here experienced discrimination because of their accent? Is she just a whingeing old lady?
Austin Prefect said:
It's interesting that people refer to 'softening' or 'toning down' there accents as opposed to affecting a different one. If there is a neutral accent that generally comprehensible at all then it makes perfect sense for that to become the norm.
That's really the sort of thing I mean. There's a sort of "transbrittanic" accent that many people tend towards when speaking in professional settings, especially with people who don't come from your area.
Go to a conference room in Glasgow and you might hear everyone speaking in Glaswegian accents, but when they go to meet their colleagues from the Birmingham office they will be speaking in a more neutral way, they might even simplify their vocabulary to remove words that are specifically Glaswegian or Scottish, but will still sound undoubtedly Scottish. Good old code-switching. It's done so we can all understand each other rather than because of some imaginary hierarchy of accents.
You can usually pick out someone's "real" accent at full strength if they've had a lot to drink. It can be quite hilarious when someone you associate with clear speech and a neutral accent becomes completely incomprehensible.
A Glaswegian friend of a friend speaks incredibly quickly in a broad Glaswegian accent and refuses to moderate it at all in any circumstance as a matter of "principle".
Even on a stag do in Budapest he kept trying to order drinks and food without slowing down and/or attempting to speak more clearly. The bewildered Hungarian serving staff had no clue what he was saying despite generally otherwise having pretty good English.
Bizarre. Even as someone from Aberdeenshire I sometimes have to concentrate to follow what he's saying.
Even on a stag do in Budapest he kept trying to order drinks and food without slowing down and/or attempting to speak more clearly. The bewildered Hungarian serving staff had no clue what he was saying despite generally otherwise having pretty good English.
Bizarre. Even as someone from Aberdeenshire I sometimes have to concentrate to follow what he's saying.
The thing is, a lot of people with regional accents have st grammar and say things like ‘we was’ instead of ‘we were’ or ‘us’ instead of ‘our’. Or they write ‘brought’ when they mean ‘bought’, or use double negatives……all things that just make you sound a bit thick.
My broad-Barnsley speaking wife is adamant that it’s held her back and that I get far more respect with my neutral non-regional accent.
t grammar and say things like ‘we was’ instead of ‘we were’ or ‘us’ instead of ‘our’. Or they write ‘brought’ when they mean ‘bought’, or use double negatives……all things that just make you sound a bit thick. My broad-Barnsley speaking wife is adamant that it’s held her back and that I get far more respect with my neutral non-regional accent.
I'm from Lancashire/Merseyside, of scouse ancestry, went to university with a lot of southern toffs, I live in the south of the Manchester conurbation (where people are from various places and the local accent is quite mild)and have worked with people from all over the world. My wife is from Cheshire.
The result is that I speak mostly *standard English* (and always have done) with quite a mild, generic "Northern English" accent, although some observant people can pick-out my origins from some of my pronunciation (My sister speaks with a bit of a scouse twang..My children speak with fairly mild manchester/Cheshire accents). I sound far less Scouse than Andy Burnham does.
I possibly speak with a bit more of a South Lancashire accent with some people and less so with others,.but I don't change much as far as I know. I probably sound quite "northern middle class" to many people.
Not having a strong regional accent or speaking in a dialect does make life easier. You can fit in anywhere.
The result is that I speak mostly *standard English* (and always have done) with quite a mild, generic "Northern English" accent, although some observant people can pick-out my origins from some of my pronunciation (My sister speaks with a bit of a scouse twang..My children speak with fairly mild manchester/Cheshire accents). I sound far less Scouse than Andy Burnham does.
I possibly speak with a bit more of a South Lancashire accent with some people and less so with others,.but I don't change much as far as I know. I probably sound quite "northern middle class" to many people.
Not having a strong regional accent or speaking in a dialect does make life easier. You can fit in anywhere.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 15th July 23:20
It's a shame MPs can't find something better to do with their time.
Regional accents are often used by advertisers because they think they can sound more authentic and trustworthy. Dave Prowse (Darth Vader) had a strong West Country accent that didn't fit well with an intergalactic bd. He sounded too nice and friendly.
As mentioned, people often choose to modify their accent for clarity of communication in work situations. I can't see a problem with it.
And even if people were discriminated against because of their accent, I wonder precisely how it could be legislated against.
Regional accents are often used by advertisers because they think they can sound more authentic and trustworthy. Dave Prowse (Darth Vader) had a strong West Country accent that didn't fit well with an intergalactic b
d. He sounded too nice and friendly. As mentioned, people often choose to modify their accent for clarity of communication in work situations. I can't see a problem with it.
And even if people were discriminated against because of their accent, I wonder precisely how it could be legislated against.
A moderated regional accent isn t a problem, but when you insist on communicating in a way that is hard to understand then you defeat the object of communication.
Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
Lavery could spend his time actually trying to make his constituency a better place rather than spouting bks like this.
Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
Lavery could spend his time actually trying to make his constituency a better place rather than spouting b
ks like this. Edited by Wildcat45 on Thursday 16th July 08:30
MC Bodge said:
I'm from Lancashire/Merseyside, of scouse ancestry, went to university with a lot of southern toffs, I live in the south of the Manchester conurbation (where people are from various places and the local accent is quite mild)and have worked with people from all over the world. My wife is from Cheshire.
The result is that I speak mostly *standard English* (and always have done) with quite a mild, generic "Northern English" accent, although some observant people can pick-out my origins from some of my pronunciation (My sister speaks with a bit of a scouse twang..My children speak with fairly mild manchester/Cheshire accents). I sound far less Scouse than Andy Burnham does.
I possibly speak with a bit more of a South Lancashire accent with some people and less so with others,.but I don't change much as far as I know. I probably sound quite "northern middle class" to many people.
Not having a strong regional accent or speaking in a dialect does make life easier. You can fit in anywhere.
Very similar to me. A lot of people in my hometown had a bit of a mild scouse accent but with a Dad from Lancashire and my scouse mum having a very neutral accent I also have a more generic Northern English accent. Although possibly due to my hometown when I speak with scousers or I get angry a hint of scouse comes out. My wife finds it hilarious and tries to wind me up saying i'm pretending to be a scouser when I do...The result is that I speak mostly *standard English* (and always have done) with quite a mild, generic "Northern English" accent, although some observant people can pick-out my origins from some of my pronunciation (My sister speaks with a bit of a scouse twang..My children speak with fairly mild manchester/Cheshire accents). I sound far less Scouse than Andy Burnham does.
I possibly speak with a bit more of a South Lancashire accent with some people and less so with others,.but I don't change much as far as I know. I probably sound quite "northern middle class" to many people.
Not having a strong regional accent or speaking in a dialect does make life easier. You can fit in anywhere.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 15th July 23:20
Although I find that that mix of Northern with a hint of scouse can be difficult to understand for foreigners. I work with a lot of Europeans from various countries and find I have to really moderate my speaking speed and clarity when speaking with them so that they understand me.
Wildcat45 said:
A moderated regional accent isn t a problem, but when you insist on communicating in a way that is hard to understand then you defeat the object of communication.
Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
Very good. Has the makings of a Viz strip. 'The code switching Geordies'Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
They speak RP to each other, but impenetrable Geordie to everyone else.
dontlookdown said:
Wildcat45 said:
A moderated regional accent isn t a problem, but when you insist on communicating in a way that is hard to understand then you defeat the object of communication.
Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
Very good. Has the makings of a Viz strip. 'The code switching Geordies'Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
They speak RP to each other, but impenetrable Geordie to everyone else.
Wildcat45 said:
A moderated regional accent isn t a problem, but when you insist on communicating in a way that is hard to understand then you defeat the object of communication.
Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
For every "thick working class with an accent" I give you a "Tim nice but Dim". Thick people are thick, no matter what accent they have. It's just snobbery to think that someone with a particular accent is thick.Coming from the North East hasn t held me back. I don t have much of an accent. My wife does and it hasn t held her back.
What Lavery is talking about is class. A heavy accent makes many people sound thick. Many people with heavy accents are working class are indeed thick. Many aren t. Those who aren t adjust their accent appropriately. not because of any form of shame, but because they want to be understood.
I recall recently talking to two heavily accented a dialect using blokes from Lavery s kneck of the woods. They were telling me how stupid this Spanish barman was on holiday. How he couldn t get their drinks order right.
Wuz want ye te give wu two pints of larga. Have yee not got nee Fostaz?
They re fokken thick them Spanish y knaa.
I pointed out to them that the Spanish barman in a Spanish bar had taken the trouble to learn English not some creole peculiar to a former pit village in North East England ,and that a smattering of Spanish on their part might have been a good idea. They just couldn t get it.
fiatpower said:
MC Bodge said:
I'm from Lancashire/Merseyside, of scouse ancestry, went to university with a lot of southern toffs, I live in the south of the Manchester conurbation (where people are from various places and the local accent is quite mild)and have worked with people from all over the world. My wife is from Cheshire.
The result is that I speak mostly *standard English* (and always have done) with quite a mild, generic "Northern English" accent, although some observant people can pick-out my origins from some of my pronunciation (My sister speaks with a bit of a scouse twang..My children speak with fairly mild manchester/Cheshire accents). I sound far less Scouse than Andy Burnham does.
I possibly speak with a bit more of a South Lancashire accent with some people and less so with others,.but I don't change much as far as I know. I probably sound quite "northern middle class" to many people.
Not having a strong regional accent or speaking in a dialect does make life easier. You can fit in anywhere.
Very similar to me. A lot of people in my hometown had a bit of a mild scouse accent but with a Dad from Lancashire and my scouse mum having a very neutral accent I also have a more generic Northern English accent. Although possibly due to my hometown when I speak with scousers or I get angry a hint of scouse comes out. My wife finds it hilarious and tries to wind me up saying i'm pretending to be a scouser when I do...The result is that I speak mostly *standard English* (and always have done) with quite a mild, generic "Northern English" accent, although some observant people can pick-out my origins from some of my pronunciation (My sister speaks with a bit of a scouse twang..My children speak with fairly mild manchester/Cheshire accents). I sound far less Scouse than Andy Burnham does.
I possibly speak with a bit more of a South Lancashire accent with some people and less so with others,.but I don't change much as far as I know. I probably sound quite "northern middle class" to many people.
Not having a strong regional accent or speaking in a dialect does make life easier. You can fit in anywhere.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 15th July 23:20
Although I find that that mix of Northern with a hint of scouse can be difficult to understand for foreigners. I work with a lot of Europeans from various countries and find I have to really moderate my speaking speed and clarity when speaking with them so that they understand me.
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