Still Running Rich
Discussion
Well the garage has had my car for a week and they still cant understand why it is running so rich!!!
List of things checked so.
valve settings / clearances
engine sensor check (all seem to be ok)
plugs, leads, dizzy and rotor
Timing
Compression checks (All OK)
Air Flow Meter = ok
Air Filter
Petrol Pump
ECU has been sent of and came back with a report of PCB ok Chip OK fuel map definately for a TVR 4 ltr, in other words...fine. The garage has said everything is as it should be but something is not doing what its meant to!!!
I look to you all for any ideas of what to check next!!!
Podie & GreenV8s....help!!!!
List of things checked so.
valve settings / clearances
engine sensor check (all seem to be ok)
plugs, leads, dizzy and rotor
Timing
Compression checks (All OK)
Air Flow Meter = ok
Air Filter
Petrol Pump
ECU has been sent of and came back with a report of PCB ok Chip OK fuel map definately for a TVR 4 ltr, in other words...fine. The garage has said everything is as it should be but something is not doing what its meant to!!!
I look to you all for any ideas of what to check next!!!
Podie & GreenV8s....help!!!!
Andy,
I would seriously consider trying an ECU swap if you can find a willing volunteer - perhaps via your local TVRCC.
Either you have a complex ECU fault or there is a short somewhere in the loom.
I recall that you got a tune resistor out of range error when you used my fault code reader a while back. This could cause overfuelling if the ECU can't tell what engine you have in the car.
I would seriously consider trying an ECU swap if you can find a willing volunteer - perhaps via your local TVRCC.
Either you have a complex ECU fault or there is a short somewhere in the loom.
I recall that you got a tune resistor out of range error when you used my fault code reader a while back. This could cause overfuelling if the ECU can't tell what engine you have in the car.
Assuming the engine does basically run OK (sorry, haven't re-read all the threads to confirm this) then I think you can ignore the ignition side and are just looking at fuelling. And that basically comes down to fuel pressure, injectors switching properly, and the duty cycle applied to the injectors by the ECU.
Have you checked the fuel pressure? Do you know what the correct fuel pressure is? I think 2.5 bar over manifold is standard, but under the circumstances I wouldn't take my word for it.
Check for ECU fault codes.
Triple-check the coolant temp sensor with the engine up to temperature. And then assume that you have been given the wrong calibration data for the sensor and check it against an independant source. If the ECU is demanding too much fuel this is by far the most likely candidate.
Listen to each injector with the engine running and confirm they are all opening and closing. Put a scope on the injectors and measure the actual pulse duration when it is running rich (at idle, presumably?). You need to know what the pulse duration should be under these conditions, either by measuring another similar car or asking somebody who knows. Unfortunately I don't have the data for the injectors you're using, but anyone who has fitted an aftermarket ECU to a standard car would know. If you still have no faults found then you need to flow test the individual injectors.
Edited to add: probably sounds complicated, but it's basically a matter of methodically working through the possible causes and eliminating them.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Saturday 15th October 12:52
Have you checked the fuel pressure? Do you know what the correct fuel pressure is? I think 2.5 bar over manifold is standard, but under the circumstances I wouldn't take my word for it.
Check for ECU fault codes.
Triple-check the coolant temp sensor with the engine up to temperature. And then assume that you have been given the wrong calibration data for the sensor and check it against an independant source. If the ECU is demanding too much fuel this is by far the most likely candidate.
Listen to each injector with the engine running and confirm they are all opening and closing. Put a scope on the injectors and measure the actual pulse duration when it is running rich (at idle, presumably?). You need to know what the pulse duration should be under these conditions, either by measuring another similar car or asking somebody who knows. Unfortunately I don't have the data for the injectors you're using, but anyone who has fitted an aftermarket ECU to a standard car would know. If you still have no faults found then you need to flow test the individual injectors.
Edited to add: probably sounds complicated, but it's basically a matter of methodically working through the possible causes and eliminating them.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Saturday 15th October 12:52
I picked the car up from the garage today and had a spare ecu with me (Thanks Dave Beer. This was from a 5ltr land rover without a TVR chip in it...as soon as we put this on my car and started it up the owner of the garage, the mechanic who has worked on my car all week and myself all agreed that it sounded better in every way.
It has come to the point where we are wondering if i have been well and truly ripped off and have a standard LR unit instead of a tvr engine.
Comming back from the garage i had to stop off for petrol. It was a dry day with dry roads and for the first time i had the beck end go when i 'gently' accelerated away from the petrol station. However i thought i would see what it could do top end and i could not get over 110mph (Honest i was not on the A19...erm it was Nissans old test track in Washington...honest Officer!!!). This i would expext with a standard Land Rover ECU but the acceleration is superb!!!
Also the mechanic pointed out the engine number. I was a numpty and brought the first chim i saw....i know big mistake but it is done now...the engine nember has been stamped over...did TVR buy the engines with numbers on and then restamp them themselves or am i looking at being complete nugget...
Buy the way i am saving for a 5ltr engine upgrade so i will be replacing it soon!!!!
It has come to the point where we are wondering if i have been well and truly ripped off and have a standard LR unit instead of a tvr engine.
Comming back from the garage i had to stop off for petrol. It was a dry day with dry roads and for the first time i had the beck end go when i 'gently' accelerated away from the petrol station. However i thought i would see what it could do top end and i could not get over 110mph (Honest i was not on the A19...erm it was Nissans old test track in Washington...honest Officer!!!). This i would expext with a standard Land Rover ECU but the acceleration is superb!!!
Also the mechanic pointed out the engine number. I was a numpty and brought the first chim i saw....i know big mistake but it is done now...the engine nember has been stamped over...did TVR buy the engines with numbers on and then restamp them themselves or am i looking at being complete nugget...
Buy the way i am saving for a 5ltr engine upgrade so i will be replacing it soon!!!!
Hi Andy, not sure where you are up to. It sounds like the engine is miles down on power with the new ECU, but I'm not clear what ECU it was you tried. In any case this test failed to prove that the problem is caused by the old ECU. Clearly there is something seriously wrong, and I think you need to track it down methodically. To start with you need to show that you are getting a good spark at the right time, then investigate the fuelling as I described earlier.
I don't think you mentioned which garage was investigating the problem, are they used to dealing with RV8 engines?
I don't think you mentioned which garage was investigating the problem, are they used to dealing with RV8 engines?
Hiya GreenV8s
I got the ECU from David Beer, it is from a 5ltr land rover with standard chip.
The garage i took the car to is called Falcon Performance in middlesbrough...not a well known gagage but the do work for a couple of the local TVR main dealers in the area when they are too busy so they seem to know there stuff.
They have done compression tests on the cylinders...seem to be ok...150 psi???
They said it was a little lower than expected but also suggested that the timing chain could be streached causing the valves to be open on the upward stroke.
Tomorrow i am going to try the chip from my ecu on the one i have borrowed from dave.
Also my girlfriend followed me back from middlesbrough and she said this time there was no smell of petrol...last time she followed me i smelt the inside of her car and it smelt like someone had spilt petrol in it!!!
Things are slowly getting better and again you have pointed me to some more things to check...!!!
Saw the grief you, Podie and some of the others got on another thread...IMOH totally unfounded and undeserved!!! I am not slating anyone as the whole thing has blown over now...BUT...from my experiences on PH two of the most helpful people i have never met have had a load of abuse foe trying to help someone out...mind some of the banter / comments were good!!!
Pleeeeeaaaase keep up the advice and help!!!
I got the ECU from David Beer, it is from a 5ltr land rover with standard chip.
The garage i took the car to is called Falcon Performance in middlesbrough...not a well known gagage but the do work for a couple of the local TVR main dealers in the area when they are too busy so they seem to know there stuff.
They have done compression tests on the cylinders...seem to be ok...150 psi???
They said it was a little lower than expected but also suggested that the timing chain could be streached causing the valves to be open on the upward stroke.
Tomorrow i am going to try the chip from my ecu on the one i have borrowed from dave.
Also my girlfriend followed me back from middlesbrough and she said this time there was no smell of petrol...last time she followed me i smelt the inside of her car and it smelt like someone had spilt petrol in it!!!
Things are slowly getting better and again you have pointed me to some more things to check...!!!
Saw the grief you, Podie and some of the others got on another thread...IMOH totally unfounded and undeserved!!! I am not slating anyone as the whole thing has blown over now...BUT...from my experiences on PH two of the most helpful people i have never met have had a load of abuse foe trying to help someone out...mind some of the banter / comments were good!!!
Pleeeeeaaaase keep up the advice and help!!!
Well that has made me feel much better...though i had a dodgy engine.
GV8S
The garage said they tested the fuel pressure...along with compression tests, cam, valve movement, timing. I think they did a thorough job...and it is definately running much better...i shall check all you suggested before though...wont hurt will it?
GV8S
The garage said they tested the fuel pressure...along with compression tests, cam, valve movement, timing. I think they did a thorough job...and it is definately running much better...i shall check all you suggested before though...wont hurt will it?
hope you get the niggles sorted. Remember keep the faith, and even when it's sorted it will still only be the second best car in the car park
cos as you know yellow ones are bestYes ok...yellow ones might look better....but its a speed thing!!!
Hello Darren...i have been meaning to come down and have a word with you about my car. I shall catch up with you next time you are on dayshift!!!
And to everyone else the car is running spot on with the chip from my original ecu and the new ecu....thanks to all for your help.
GV8S
I am still going to do those checks that you recommended at the weekend...i need to take the rocker covers off anyway as there is a slight leak comming from one so i am going to change them as well.
Hello Darren...i have been meaning to come down and have a word with you about my car. I shall catch up with you next time you are on dayshift!!!
And to everyone else the car is running spot on with the chip from my original ecu and the new ecu....thanks to all for your help.
GV8S
I am still going to do those checks that you recommended at the weekend...i need to take the rocker covers off anyway as there is a slight leak comming from one so i am going to change them as well.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff