Insurance Claim - courtesy car costs
Discussion
My car got hit in early January by someone pulling out of a layby as I drove past.
They immediately admitted responsibility and submitted their notification to their own insurers while we were at the scene, as did I.
My insurer got their accident management company (AMC) to contact me - Accident Exchange - and everything went on from there.
They were very prompt.
As my car was effectively undriveable I got a courtesy car through the AMC.
I know they DID ask me if I could afford to hire a car myself but as I was 3 days away from finishing my job with nothing to go to my answer was a clear no.
That, to the best of my memory is all that was discussed there.
So, yesterday I had a call from a solicitor who has been appointed by the AMC to start court action IN MY NAME to recover hire car costs as the other party's insurer is apparently refusing to cough up in full.
The solicitor has asked me to provide bank statements to show affordability, or otherwise, for a hire car and that request includes savings accounts - which I have.
Am I on the hook here for any shortfall in their recovery of hire costs if the other party insurer refuse to cough up?
At the time of all of this I had about £30k in savings but, as I said earlier, effectively no job so there was no prospect of me being able to afford a hire car out of 'normal' income.
I'm not aware that any additional warnings were given when I got the hire car about potential future costs.
In addition I had the hire car for 7 weeks as the insurer's bodyshop are clearly pretty useless.
Even after the car has been back for remedial work twice its still not right in a few areas but I've actually recently got rid of it.
As yet I haven't responded to the solicitor so any advice on what to do next is welcome.
They immediately admitted responsibility and submitted their notification to their own insurers while we were at the scene, as did I.
My insurer got their accident management company (AMC) to contact me - Accident Exchange - and everything went on from there.
They were very prompt.
As my car was effectively undriveable I got a courtesy car through the AMC.
I know they DID ask me if I could afford to hire a car myself but as I was 3 days away from finishing my job with nothing to go to my answer was a clear no.
That, to the best of my memory is all that was discussed there.
So, yesterday I had a call from a solicitor who has been appointed by the AMC to start court action IN MY NAME to recover hire car costs as the other party's insurer is apparently refusing to cough up in full.
The solicitor has asked me to provide bank statements to show affordability, or otherwise, for a hire car and that request includes savings accounts - which I have.
Am I on the hook here for any shortfall in their recovery of hire costs if the other party insurer refuse to cough up?
At the time of all of this I had about £30k in savings but, as I said earlier, effectively no job so there was no prospect of me being able to afford a hire car out of 'normal' income.
I'm not aware that any additional warnings were given when I got the hire car about potential future costs.
In addition I had the hire car for 7 weeks as the insurer's bodyshop are clearly pretty useless.
Even after the car has been back for remedial work twice its still not right in a few areas but I've actually recently got rid of it.
As yet I haven't responded to the solicitor so any advice on what to do next is welcome.
When my wife was hit by a driver, totally their fault, the 3rd party's insurance company pressed really had the impecunity line - why did we only have the one car, do we really need a courtesy car etc etc etc.
Its one of, if not THE, main driver behind the high repair costs.
As it turns out, we had a like for like car on hire for about a month and everything, eventually, was paid in our favour
Its one of, if not THE, main driver behind the high repair costs.
As it turns out, we had a like for like car on hire for about a month and everything, eventually, was paid in our favour
Thanks all.
The insurer is Admiral and having looked through their Insurance Product Information Document it states that "We ll provide a small courtesy
vehicle while yours is being repaired by our approved repairer."
As it happened the hire car I got was pretty much like for like - a BMW 420i to replace my 430d.
The accident was reported directly to Admiral who then passed me on to their AMC (Accident Exchange).
The other party insurer - or their management company - did contact me about about a courtesy car but they were slow off the mark and my AMC had already sorted it out.
The insurer is Admiral and having looked through their Insurance Product Information Document it states that "We ll provide a small courtesy
vehicle while yours is being repaired by our approved repairer."
As it happened the hire car I got was pretty much like for like - a BMW 420i to replace my 430d.
The accident was reported directly to Admiral who then passed me on to their AMC (Accident Exchange).
The other party insurer - or their management company - did contact me about about a courtesy car but they were slow off the mark and my AMC had already sorted it out.
I also spotted the following clause in the 'Your Car Insurance Guide'
"If we, our approved repairers or another company instructed by Admiral have provided you with a courtesy car,
we will be entitled to any amount we are able to recover from a third party for the cost of providing you with a
courtesy car."
That appears to indicate they'll only take what they can get from the other insurer, rather than me having to make up any shortfall.
Or maybe I'm just hoping?!
"If we, our approved repairers or another company instructed by Admiral have provided you with a courtesy car,
we will be entitled to any amount we are able to recover from a third party for the cost of providing you with a
courtesy car."
That appears to indicate they'll only take what they can get from the other insurer, rather than me having to make up any shortfall.
Or maybe I'm just hoping?!
Is just a formality for them to ask, when we were rear ended we had a XC90 to replace our X5.
When asked about using savings I said I was unwilling to liquidate any investments without unlimited recompense for any market losses. We were asked why we couldn't use our other car (F20 1-series) and said that we had 2 week old baby, that my wife was recently post-sunroof so couldn't get into it comfortably and it wasn't big enough to accommodate the car seat comfortably.
They accepted both and I heard nothing more.
When asked about using savings I said I was unwilling to liquidate any investments without unlimited recompense for any market losses. We were asked why we couldn't use our other car (F20 1-series) and said that we had 2 week old baby, that my wife was recently post-sunroof so couldn't get into it comfortably and it wasn't big enough to accommodate the car seat comfortably.
They accepted both and I heard nothing more.
5 In a Row said:
Thanks all.
The insurer is Admiral and having looked through their Insurance Product Information Document it states that "We ll provide a small courtesy
vehicle while yours is being repaired by our approved repairer."
As it happened the hire car I got was pretty much like for like - a BMW 420i to replace my 430d.
The accident was reported directly to Admiral who then passed me on to their AMC (Accident Exchange).
The other party insurer - or their management company - did contact me about about a courtesy car but they were slow off the mark and my AMC had already sorted it out.
Admiral has had issues previously with the appointment of AMC’s and the FO has got involved. The insurer is Admiral and having looked through their Insurance Product Information Document it states that "We ll provide a small courtesy
vehicle while yours is being repaired by our approved repairer."
As it happened the hire car I got was pretty much like for like - a BMW 420i to replace my 430d.
The accident was reported directly to Admiral who then passed me on to their AMC (Accident Exchange).
The other party insurer - or their management company - did contact me about about a courtesy car but they were slow off the mark and my AMC had already sorted it out.
They “ should “ make it clear when you first contact them that you can usually either elect for an AMC or they will settle it within their own claims dept - I stress the use of the word “ should “ and this is where the FO has usually found against them when they couldn’t prove they had.
Other similar Insurers also try and play this game.
Their hire car is usually a small hatchback - yours is virtually like for like.
The solicitor is fighting the claim in your name because you are the one “ exposed “ therefore to additional charges.
Thanks for the additional info
The other insurer wasn't signed up to the 'agreed protocols' that most are - these are about settling claims as obviously in this instance AX were acting on behalf of the innocent party (i.e. me) but next time could be acting for the person who was at fault and I realise that money flows both ways.
Their email stated that companies not signed up are more likely to be litigious and this was just to make me aware.
The email did include the following though:-
"Will I be responsible for the hire charges if they do not pay?
Provided you continue to comply with the terms of your rental agreement, which includes assisting us in the recovery of your claim, then your liability is limited to the amount that we are able to recover from the fault party's insurer."
So, again, it looks as though they'll make an effort but otherwise just accept what they can get.
In regards to the actual courtesy car I was given, I don't remember being offered a choice.
To be honest I would probably rather have had a basic hatch than a new 420i in primer grey - from a car enthusiast point of view it was anything but exciting!
The other insurer wasn't signed up to the 'agreed protocols' that most are - these are about settling claims as obviously in this instance AX were acting on behalf of the innocent party (i.e. me) but next time could be acting for the person who was at fault and I realise that money flows both ways.
Their email stated that companies not signed up are more likely to be litigious and this was just to make me aware.
The email did include the following though:-
"Will I be responsible for the hire charges if they do not pay?
Provided you continue to comply with the terms of your rental agreement, which includes assisting us in the recovery of your claim, then your liability is limited to the amount that we are able to recover from the fault party's insurer."
So, again, it looks as though they'll make an effort but otherwise just accept what they can get.
In regards to the actual courtesy car I was given, I don't remember being offered a choice.
To be honest I would probably rather have had a basic hatch than a new 420i in primer grey - from a car enthusiast point of view it was anything but exciting!
5 In a Row said:
Thanks for the additional info
So, again, it looks as though they'll make an effort but otherwise just accept what they can get.
In regards to the actual courtesy car I was given, I don't remember being offered a choice.
To be honest I would probably rather have had a basic hatch than a new 420i in primer grey - from a car enthusiast point of view it was anything but exciting!
Yes that sounds probable and of course may not and probably won’t even get to court anyway. So, again, it looks as though they'll make an effort but otherwise just accept what they can get.
In regards to the actual courtesy car I was given, I don't remember being offered a choice.
To be honest I would probably rather have had a basic hatch than a new 420i in primer grey - from a car enthusiast point of view it was anything but exciting!
Hope either way it goes well for you.
My “ old “ Aston was painted China Grey and my wife’s current RS4 is Nardo Grey so quite like “ primer “ in our household
alscar said:
Yes that sounds probable and of course may not and probably won t even get to court anyway.
Hope either way it goes well for you.
My old Aston was painted China Grey and my wife s current RS4 is Nardo Grey so quite like primer in our household
Hope either way it goes well for you.
My old Aston was painted China Grey and my wife s current RS4 is Nardo Grey so quite like primer in our household
I'm sure primer grey looks a lot better on an Aston or RS4 than it does on a 420 in the depths of a grey winter wearing shirt button wheels!
The solicitor did say that these things are usually settled prior to court and having been involved in a legal action in the past can reassure myself that is often the case, even for significantly larger amounts than this claim is likely for.
I am, however, perturbed at having to provide nearly 5 months worth of bank and credit card statements to some unidentifiable 3rd parties.
Perhaps they'll take pity on me when they spot that the savings I have aren't much more than my credit card debt!!
5 In a Row said:
I'm sure primer grey looks a lot better on an Aston or RS4 than it does on a 420 in the depths of a grey winter wearing shirt button wheels!
The solicitor did say that these things are usually settled prior to court and having been involved in a legal action in the past can reassure myself that is often the case, even for significantly larger amounts than this claim is likely for.
I am, however, perturbed at having to provide nearly 5 months worth of bank and credit card statements to some unidentifiable 3rd parties.
Perhaps they'll take pity on me when they spot that the savings I have aren't much more than my credit card debt!!
Especially if you have send securely and not via simple scanned email attachment.
5 In a Row said:
"Provided you continue to comply with the terms of your rental agreement, which includes assisting us in the recovery of your claim, then your liability is limited to the amount that we are able to recover from the fault party's insurer."
Is it just me, or does that not make sense?BertBert said:
5 In a Row said:
"Provided you continue to comply with the terms of your rental agreement, which includes assisting us in the recovery of your claim, then your liability is limited to the amount that we are able to recover from the fault party's insurer."
Is it just me, or does that not make sense?I had to provide the same statement, and in my case it was the truth as I was just starting work after a 9 month unemployed stint, was due my final 3 months of pay and hotel/flight expenses from my previous company, was overdrawn and had a decent balance on my credit card so could not afford even a cheap hire car.
In my case, the credit hire car claim was £7500, and for the same period (if I'd had the money myself) I could have hired a mid-sized saloon for £150/week (vs the c.£350/day the AMC were charging for a 'like for like' vehicle).
I'm going to sound really harsh here, but you've said you had enough savings to hire a cheap car for a few weeks (at normal retail car hire rates, not the extortionate credit hire rates the AMC uses) but decided to claim you didn't?
You have a duty to minimise/mitigate losses, but you chose to provide a false declaration, and now it's coming back to bite you/the AMC, as you will have to either restate that false declaration in your statement for the court case or put the AMC/yourself in it by changing your statement.
I'd also check your agreement with the AMC, as mine had a clause in it that said I'd not be liable for any costs as long as I told the truth and assisted the AMC in reclaiming their monies (and that included me pointing out falsehoods/errors in the statement they'd prepared for me).
In my case, the credit hire car claim was £7500, and for the same period (if I'd had the money myself) I could have hired a mid-sized saloon for £150/week (vs the c.£350/day the AMC were charging for a 'like for like' vehicle).
I'm going to sound really harsh here, but you've said you had enough savings to hire a cheap car for a few weeks (at normal retail car hire rates, not the extortionate credit hire rates the AMC uses) but decided to claim you didn't?
You have a duty to minimise/mitigate losses, but you chose to provide a false declaration, and now it's coming back to bite you/the AMC, as you will have to either restate that false declaration in your statement for the court case or put the AMC/yourself in it by changing your statement.
I'd also check your agreement with the AMC, as mine had a clause in it that said I'd not be liable for any costs as long as I told the truth and assisted the AMC in reclaiming their monies (and that included me pointing out falsehoods/errors in the statement they'd prepared for me).
I have been through this recently. Not at fault hit by a French lorry. I think the practice is very shady as they prey on you being naive to the process and give very little information as to how credit hire works. I refused to provide any financial evidence (girl at Europcar end basically hinted at saying no to all questions). Third party tried to offer less than the hire cost, I believe they then threatened third party with legal action and it was settled. Aviva should have been clearer that whilst I didn’t have a courtesy car their body shop would have provided me with one regardless. Lesson learned there and next time I would get a hire car myself and then claim back via legal cover that I add on to my policies. Annoyingly they do take a cut of any recovered costs which would still leave you out of pocket for something that wasn’t your fault.
This is standard stuff.
You effectively sign to hire the car but the theory is that AX will recover it from the insurer at fault.
The problem is the rates they charge.
On the one hand people moan about the cost of car insurance. On the other, they happily sign up to be put in a 'like-for-like' car at some extortionate rate when one of the i10s or what-have-you on the bodyshop's fleet would have been perfectly fine.
It's not unknown for this to happen, but it usually gets resolved. There was that Darren Bent case where Allianz argued the toss unsuccessfully, for instance;
https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/allianz-loses-63k...
You effectively sign to hire the car but the theory is that AX will recover it from the insurer at fault.
The problem is the rates they charge.
On the one hand people moan about the cost of car insurance. On the other, they happily sign up to be put in a 'like-for-like' car at some extortionate rate when one of the i10s or what-have-you on the bodyshop's fleet would have been perfectly fine.
It's not unknown for this to happen, but it usually gets resolved. There was that Darren Bent case where Allianz argued the toss unsuccessfully, for instance;
https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/allianz-loses-63k...
5 In a Row said:
BertBert said:
5 In a Row said:
"Provided you continue to comply with the terms of your rental agreement, which includes assisting us in the recovery of your claim, then your liability is limited to the amount that we are able to recover from the fault party's insurer."
Is it just me, or does that not make sense?When entering into a credit hire agreement you agree that you will help the AMC recover their costs, including court if necessary where you would need to defend what you've signed up for.
There's very likely a statement in the agreement where you've (knowingly or otherwise) agreed that you have absolutely no choice but to use credit hire rather than normal car hire, as it's accepted that credit hire is far more expensive so shouldn't be the default.
There will be things in there like agreeing that you have a concrete requirement to have an equivalent replacement vehicle, have no access to borrow a vehicle, no way of getting a hire car yourself, including no access to credit or savings etc. to pay for it up front, all sorts of stuff like that.
(There's nothing to say that either side will want it to get as far as court though.)
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