Some bad and good news........................F**K!

[V8Smith]

Bad News:
My car was running really lumpy so its been at Austec trying to find out what the problem is. it seems its a worn CAM so will have to be replaced, which is a big job £1-£1.5K as I am going to have the valve springs replaced too. Is there anything else i should think of having done whilst this is getting done to get more power from the engine???

I knew the CAM was worn after the remap on the Rolling Road results were down on the figures achieved earlier after the TVR-Power engine rebuild! As The Remap was only earlier this year it just shows how worn the CAM was worn, hope this means the power will be more than the 231bhp it got before!

Good news:
The car should be more powerful and the wife is away so I can try to get it done before she gets back and notices...


Cheers

Mike

>> Edited by V8Smith on Friday 14th October 16:14

[honourablepickle]

if the wife is away ...........
forget the cam and get a £30k loan secured on the house to pay for a LS1 lump and six speed sequential box conversion

if she hasn't strangled you when it's finished can I have a go please ?

reb

[bugsy]

How about a warmer cam, Bosch injectors and a remap

[V8Smith]

It already had a TVR power slightly modified Kent 214 CAM (TVR 51 CAM) Ive heard the injectors dont make that much difference? The remap will be done as Mark Adams will have to remap the tornado chip as it will be out.

Ahh well looking forward to getting it back now and seeing the results, if it put out 231bhp and 260 lb ft with a very worn CAM should be interesting??? As long as its back on the road soon I will be happy to be honest!

Mike

[Hoover33]

Replacing the injectors for the BOSH won't make much difference and will cost a tad under £800 quid...

Mark Adams has sourced some other injectors which are about half the price.....

BUT.... if you've got the engine in bits it might be worthwhile getting the injectors sonically cleaned.... chatted with someone who had this done and they reckon savings in fuel consumption alone have paid for this to be done ..

My tuppence .......

[HarryW]

Are you going for a wilder cam this time Mike , the TVR51 is not a bad cam but I think grinds have improved a bit since then, have you spoke to Mark or Paul re alternatives as the expense is in the fitting not the cost of the cam.

Harry

[HarryW]

Out of interest whats up with the valve springs, do you have a broken one .


H

[V8Smith]

Hi Harry always appreciate your views as you are much more experienced with the V8S engine than most. From what I know the TVR51 Cam is a Kent 214 which I believe is a good CAM. Paul suggested going with the same, do you have any suggetions, I did read your comments on possibly getting a MC2/H404 how do they compare and how much are they? No dont have a broken valve spring, but Paul said the reason for the CAM wearing so quickly maybe because TVR Power make their springs very tight and sometimes double up, so suggests replacing them, they come with the CAM kit anyway. As far as I know Kent dont give the ful warranty if you dont use Kent valve springs either!

As they will be getting the plenum out might go for the C/F flared 45mm trumpets, but think I will have to leave the twin throttle plenum for now. Harry do you know if the ACT hose kit adds anything and any other suggestions as to what I could get done whilst this is out??

Peter any suggestions?

Cheers

Mike

>> Edited by V8Smith on Thursday 22 December 09:47

[Pies]

ACT hose kit ?

[GreenV8S]

£1.5 K for a simple cam change seems a little on the high side, hopefully it will come in under that.

260 lb-ft is remarkable, and to achieve this in an engine that also produces 230 BHP is somewhat incredible. Either you've got a phenominal engine, or the RR figures you are getting are not consistent with the figures I have been getting from PE.

What are your criteria for the work? How much power are you after, and how much are you willing to pay per BHP? Unless you are planning something drastic, I think your best bet would be to limit the work to a cam change, maybe an H404 or something like that? Clearly the rest of the engine is already working extremely well so you are into diminishing returns if you want to start replacing a very good induction setup with an even better one.

[HarryW]

Tend to agree with Peter on this, at 230/260 I wouldn't say the cam was on its last legs yet, maybe on its way but not on its last legs .
As I said earlier if you are changing the cam then the TVR51 isn't a bad cam, very similar to the 214 but a bit softer. I have a 218 which is actually softer than the 214 (strange as normally the bigger the number the wilder the cam in Kent terms).
Times have moved on since the 214 tbh, it must over 15 years old. The MC2/H404 are more modern and progressive cams (using the 218 as the orginal basis I understand) but not overly wild . V8D have spent a lot of time back to back testing on the bench dyno to develop them. You wouldn't be wasting your time talkig to Shaun/Rob or Ray at V8D for a straight forward query as Tim/Paul or Mark would be happy to talk too.
I understand the the TVR double springs are considered harsh but if you want a wilder cam I would think twice about putting something softer in. Again V8D have a lot of experience in this area, they strip them every day.
re the 45 trumpets, I have the ali ones, not carbon (tight git I hear you say ) and IMHO you really need the ported manifolds and bigger heads to get the full benefit. There is not a lot wrong with the flared 38mm for a 'standard' 4 ltr.
If you do go with changing anything from what you have now then a remapped will probably be needed too ,

another hidden expense if you haven't already got it is to have the cam pulley verniered (adjustable) and double chained too. Soon adds up doesn't it .

Again as Peter says I would be tempted to do one thing at a time, as it not as if it was a weeded engine to begin with .

Harry

[HarryW]

Another if you do go with a wild cam with lots of lift do you have pocketed pistons , only asking as it could be even more expensive .
From a pure noise point of view you could also go with something that has lots of overlap for the pops and bangs, but you would need to work the engine hard (rev) to get the benfits of the overlap IMHO. The 218 and their derivatives are quiet soft with little overlap and IMHO work very well in a road car.

Harry

[V8Smith]

Thanks guys, lots to think about and yes was thinking of speaking to V8D to see what they think? The engine is supposedly strong because it was done by Dom at TVR Power (Gas flowed heads, Pocketed Pistons, the larger valves and the torquey TVR51 CAM which was put on the rollers when done quite a few years ago and achieved 240bhp. I am told by Dom the 'standard' 4ltr puts out around 210-220 despite TVR's figures. Since then its had the full ACT S/S Sports exhaust with re-worked Y piece, smaller bore manifolds which is supposed to help power and the Tornado Chip and remap from Mark Adams, hence why I was sort of expecting above 240bhp. As the CAM was on its way out, it shows that 240+ could possibly be achievable.

I am not looking to spend a fortune, the CAM is a must have, just thought whilst this part of the engine is out there may be a few bits that are mostly labour intensive, that I could do. The C/F trumpets I was going to do later but as its all coming out anyway, makes sense. Pies seemed to get good gains from them?

I want a CAM for go not for noise, not needed Harry you obviously havent heard my car after the 'cherry bomb' conversion It pops and bangs for fun, sounds more like a Nascar racer and cackles and pops when I left off like the Cerb......

Will ask about the H404 CAM and decide on Monday so any other thoughts please let me know. Its been an expensive month what with a £1K bill last week for the new ally rad and water pump gasket replaced!

Peter so £1.5K sounds expensive? He said it would be around £1K for the CAM and another £500 to change the valve springs, are you saying this sounds expensive as I havent got a clue what this type of work costs...? I must say Im half tempted to take it up to TVR-Power and get them to do the work Kenny had done as its not that much more, F**k this could get very expensive!

Cheers
Mike

[GreenV8S]

V8Smith said:

Peter so £1.5K sounds expensive? He said it would be around £1K for the CAM and another £500 to change the valve springs, are you saying this sounds expensive as I havent got a clue what this type of work costs...?

Well the cam would cost about £500 in parts plus a day of labour assuming you need a vernier pulley set, typically works out at about £1000. Set of valve springs I would expect to cost £30-£40, if you already have the rocker assembly off to change the cam then it should be relatively quick to swap a spring, I wouldn't have thought it would take longer than an hour or so to swap the whole set out. All these figures are before VAT so depending whether your £1500 includes VAT we might not be so far apart.

[GreenV8S]

Quinny said:

Peter, It's the valve springs that kill the job, rather than £30. I think you're looking at closer to £200. Rob from V8D told me that this is the price Kent charge for them, and they're the ones that Kent say must be used with their cam.

Well I don't understand that at all, V8D's own price list shows them at £30-£40 a set and RPI prices are similar. You can get a double spring set for under £60. So how on earth can you spend £200 on a set of valve springs?

[V8Smith]

Quinny said:

they're the ones that Kent say must be used with their cam.

This is what I was told, they wont guarantee CAM life without fitting their springs, does sound costly though.

Am discussing costs etc Monday so will know more then.

Mike

[V8Smith]

Looks like I am going with a H404, supposed to be a pretty hot CAM and should improve power! Also whilst I am at it, will have the carbon fibre larger flared trumpets put in which should also add something! Now I am over the initial "Its gonna cost how much" Stage I am now just looking forward to getting back a faster car hopefully

[HarryW]

Excellent, be very interested to see what the H404 does for a 4ltr, only heard of 5ltr being fitted with it so far (maybe wrong there ).
As I said before if I keep the S then this is highest on my to-do list .

Harry

[Hoover33]

Having all that done.....does that mean iy needs its ECU played about with again on completion?????..... just wondering

[V8Smith]

Hoover33 said:

Having all that done.....does that mean iy needs its ECU played about with again on completion?????..... just wondering

Yep...... so looking forward to seeing what the output is after all the work. Tim says he has seen between 8-14bhp gains from the trumpets and I was told by V8 Developments that although the H404 is a bit lumpy below 1500rpm it could add upto 15bhp over my existing CAM. As my car is very rarely anywhere near 1500rpm I though it best to go for it? Yes harry should be interesting to see how it improves or whether it improves power, I can be the test case for once... save you doing it Having looked at the power graph before there was a lot of strange activity that Mark couldnt explain, which was possibly the CAM on its way out, at least I will have that to compare!

Hey Hoover a bit scary knowing my CAM was on the way out and down on power at SCH3 eh..

Mike