France and Spain wildfires

[Last Visit]

Quite concerning I'd say given the areas now affected. Have visited Bordeaux many times on holiday, often around this time although not this year and I can see there's a lot of concerns for the area.

The areas of Spain affected are also huge with the additionn of wind as challenging as the lack of rain for the fire fighters deployed.

https://news.sky.com/liveblog-webview/europe-wildf...

[MrBogSmith]

2026 may not be a great vintage for my favourite wine region if this carries on…

But more seriously clearly serious fires that could do with some favourable weather to help. But thy play doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

[paulw123]

It just shows how insufficient the fire fighting equipment and fire breaks are. No doubt due to cost cutting measures.
Very sad to see the damage being done. Hopefully a wake up call.

[Last Visit]

paulw123 said:

It just shows how insufficient the fire fighting equipment and fire breaks are. No doubt due to cost cutting measures.
Very sad to see the damage being done. Hopefully a wake up call.

Indeed.

I've been having a read up on the 'fire clouds' and the conditions that create them, so much respect for the services working to deal with the fires, given the heat just from the weather the conditions much be unbearable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2350xnl4j5o

[mike9009]

Last Visit said:

Indeed.

I've been having a read up on the 'fire clouds' and the conditions that create them, so much respect for the services working to deal with the fires, given the heat just from the weather the conditions much be unbearable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2350xnl4j5o

It is incredible and can easily be understood how these fires can spread much more widely, with that intensity and 'weather' generation. Fire breaks would be a bit futile, as this would circumnavigate and spread further. Need to develop a different tactic, me thinks.

Had not heard about the phenomena before but according to the radio this evening they are quite rare in Europe but have been a feature in the US for sometime.

[paddy1970]

What a clusterfk...if the EU leaders had invested effort and money in managing the effect of global warming instead of fighting it, we would not be here ...

[LunarOne]

paddy1970 said:

What a clusterfk...if the EU leaders had invested effort and money in managing the effect of global warming instead of fighting it, we would not be here ...

Wildfires having been going on since the age of the dinosaurs without being caused by global warming. In fact in some ecosystems, wildfires are essential to their continuing viability. The fact that they aren't convenient for humans is irrelevant. I'm not saying they aren't a problem, but blaming global warming is pretty stupid.

[DaveGrohl]

paddy1970 said:

What a clusterfk...if the EU leaders had invested effort and money in managing the effect of global warming instead of fighting it, we would not be here ...

Indeed, adaptation is what matters. We ve spent decades sat in Canute s chair rather than moving the bloody chair.

[JNW1]

LunarOne said:

Wildfires having been going on since the age of the dinosaurs without being caused by global warming. In fact in some ecosystems, wildfires are essential to their continuing viability. The fact that they aren't convenient for humans is irrelevant. I'm not saying they aren't a problem, but blaming global warming is pretty stupid.

You can't go round saying things like that - in its TV news report the BBC stated as a fact these fires have been caused by man made climate change so it must be true....

[durbster]

Last Visit said:

paulw123 said:

It just shows how insufficient the fire fighting equipment and fire breaks are. No doubt due to cost cutting measures.
Very sad to see the damage being done. Hopefully a wake up call.

Indeed.

I've been having a read up on the 'fire clouds' and the conditions that create them, so much respect for the services working to deal with the fires, given the heat just from the weather the conditions much be unbearable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2350xnl4j5o

Yeah absolutely. You have to give massive respect to all the firefighters facing this head-on. It must be terrifying to see up close, knowing how unpredictable and lethal a wildfire can be. Also, credit to the pilots tackling it from the air. I was watching clips of those aircraft that scoop up water the other day and every single thing about that feels like a very bad idea.

In northern Europe we're just not really ready to deal with this stuff, which isn't ideal considering we know it's going to happen more frequently as we continue to warm the climate.

But what can we realistically do about it anyway?

In places like Australia, where wildfires are part of their eco-system, they've got as good an infrastructure as you can get. They build fire breaks, do controlled burns, have an extensive and sophisticated monitoring and communication system etc., but the reality is that they still need a lot of luck and the right weather and wind to have a chance at managing them.

Remember their "black summer" of 2020? It was quickly overshadowed by COVID but the scale of it was absolutely mind-blowing, and it completely overwhelmed every system they have.

[mike9009]

It is interesting the new technologies being deployed in France to try to detect earlier so intervention can be made at an earlier point.

https://youtu.be/jJwjSMBtvuI?is=nZdpLMnEyw1wTyoZ

Low Earth Orbit thermal satellites are being developed as more traditional methods to prevent large wildfires are becoming a little futile. Need to accept ignition sources will always be there (natural and human induced) but earlier intervention in remote tinder boxes is paramount.

https://www.adaptunbound.com/library/wildfire-star...

[richhead]

LunarOne said:

paddy1970 said:

What a clusterfk...if the EU leaders had invested effort and money in managing the effect of global warming instead of fighting it, we would not be here ...

Wildfires having been going on since the age of the dinosaurs without being caused by global warming. In fact in some ecosystems, wildfires are essential to their continuing viability. The fact that they aren't convenient for humans is irrelevant. I'm not saying they aren't a problem, but blaming global warming is pretty stupid.

Its also pretty arrogant and naive to think that we can change global warming, its always been in a cycle cold or hot, long before we were able to add to it, as im sure we have done, but that is a moot point.
We cant beat nature only work with it.
We have to learn to live with it, and not think we can control it.

[Gareth79]

paulw123 said:

It just shows how insufficient the fire fighting equipment and fire breaks are. No doubt due to cost cutting measures.
Very sad to see the damage being done. Hopefully a wake up call.

Any evidence of that? Are fire breaks normally used in the area? What equipment was in use, say, 20 years ago and would it have been able to tackle this fire?

Do you think the record breaking temperatures this year might have anything to do with it?

Edited by Gareth79 on Tuesday 28th July 00:15

[paddy1970]

richhead said:

LunarOne said:

paddy1970 said:

What a clusterfk...if the EU leaders had invested effort and money in managing the effect of global warming instead of fighting it, we would not be here ...

Wildfires having been going on since the age of the dinosaurs without being caused by global warming. In fact in some ecosystems, wildfires are essential to their continuing viability. The fact that they aren't convenient for humans is irrelevant. I'm not saying they aren't a problem, but blaming global warming is pretty stupid.

Its also pretty arrogant and naive to think that we can change global warming, its always been in a cycle cold or hot, long before we were able to add to it, as im sure we have done, but that is a moot point.
We cant beat nature only work with it.
We have to learn to live with it, and not think we can control it.

You both need to learn to read what I actually wrote, rather than argue against things I did not say.

I said neither that global warming is man-made nor that we can somehow stop or reverse it. I am not interested in getting into that debate.

My point is much simpler: if we know that hotter conditions, droughts and severe wildfires are going to become a recurring problem, then we should be investing far more in adapting to them and managing their effects.

That means things such as better firefighting capability and equipment, better prevention and land management, more resilient infrastructure, and air conditioning or cooling in public spaces.

In other words, we have to learn to live with changing conditions. My criticism is that governments have spent too much effort arguing about how to change the climate and not enough on preparing society to deal with the consequences.

Edited by paddy1970 on Tuesday 28th July 05:20

[Sway]

On the firefighting planes - not only is it fking mental the idea of 'skimming' the water's surface, adding tonnes of weight to the aircraft per second - but then the pilots are flying them in pretty much the most 'hostile' atmospheric conditions possible. And then whilst in the thick of it, changing the aircraft's mass by tonnes per second too b

I used to tangentially know the guys who did this for central Portugal. Those boys and girls made even the ex-fighter jocks I know bow down in admiration...

[DaveGrohl]

paddy1970 said:

richhead said:

LunarOne said:

paddy1970 said:

What a clusterfk...if the EU leaders had invested effort and money in managing the effect of global warming instead of fighting it, we would not be here ...

Wildfires having been going on since the age of the dinosaurs without being caused by global warming. In fact in some ecosystems, wildfires are essential to their continuing viability. The fact that they aren't convenient for humans is irrelevant. I'm not saying they aren't a problem, but blaming global warming is pretty stupid.

Its also pretty arrogant and naive to think that we can change global warming, its always been in a cycle cold or hot, long before we were able to add to it, as im sure we have done, but that is a moot point.
We cant beat nature only work with it.
We have to learn to live with it, and not think we can control it.

You both need to learn to read what I actually wrote, rather than argue against things I did not say.

I said neither that global warming is man-made nor that we can somehow stop or reverse it. I am not interested in getting into that debate.

My point is much simpler: if we know that hotter conditions, droughts and severe wildfires are going to become a recurring problem, then we should be investing far more in adapting to them and managing their effects.

That means things such as better firefighting capability and equipment, better prevention and land management, more resilient infrastructure, and air conditioning or cooling in public spaces.

In other words, we have to learn to live with changing conditions. My criticism is that governments have spent too much effort arguing about how to change the climate and not enough on preparing society to deal with the consequences.

Edited by paddy1970 on Tuesday 28th July 05:20

Tbf it wasn’t immediately clear what you meant.
I had to reread your post a few times to understand what you meant. Which I did in the end.

[DaveGrohl]

durbster said:

Last Visit said:

paulw123 said:

It just shows how insufficient the fire fighting equipment and fire breaks are. No doubt due to cost cutting measures.
Very sad to see the damage being done. Hopefully a wake up call.

Indeed.

I've been having a read up on the 'fire clouds' and the conditions that create them, so much respect for the services working to deal with the fires, given the heat just from the weather the conditions much be unbearable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2350xnl4j5o

Yeah absolutely. You have to give massive respect to all the firefighters facing this head-on. It must be terrifying to see up close, knowing how unpredictable and lethal a wildfire can be. Also, credit to the pilots tackling it from the air. I was watching clips of those aircraft that scoop up water the other day and every single thing about that feels like a very bad idea.

In northern Europe we're just not really ready to deal with this stuff, which isn't ideal considering we know it's going to happen more frequently as we continue to warm the climate.

But what can we realistically do about it anyway?

In places like Australia, where wildfires are part of their eco-system, they've got as good an infrastructure as you can get. They build fire breaks, do controlled burns, have an extensive and sophisticated monitoring and communication system etc., but the reality is that they still need a lot of luck and the right weather and wind to have a chance at managing them.

Remember their "black summer" of 2020? It was quickly overshadowed by COVID but the scale of it was absolutely mind-blowing, and it completely overwhelmed every system they have.

We used to do all that, as did other countries, but we ve been gripped by the laptop/lanyard crew in recent times. All those things have been removed as basic tactics learnt over decades and longer.

It s all rewilding now, removal of livestock from areas prone to wildfire, with the inevitable buildup of dry tinder. Controlled burning massively reduced, firebreaks shunned, even access to these areas has been done away with. Repeated warnings of what would happen have been ignored by the NGOs and govts promoting these policies. Letting nature "do its thing" will be our salvation apparently. We re regressing as a species while thinking we re ever so clever.

But it can all be blamed on da climate when you ve got a media to back up da message.

There are large numbers of people who have been warning about the inevitability of all this for a long time, and are much better at explaining it than me, but they’re simply being ignored.

[durbster]

Sway said:

On the firefighting planes - not only is it fking mental the idea of 'skimming' the water's surface, adding tonnes of weight to the aircraft per second - but then the pilots are flying them in pretty much the most 'hostile' atmospheric conditions possible. And then whilst in the thick of it, changing the aircraft's mass by tonnes per second too b

I used to tangentially know the guys who did this for central Portugal. Those boys and girls made even the ex-fighter jocks I know bow down in admiration...

Are they the most dangerous flights of all? They must be up there. Given how safety-first the aircraft industry is, it can only be the desperate necessity that the planes ever left the ground.

Maybe their days are numbered though. One good thing that'll come out of the war in Ukraine is the advances in drone technology and if we can detect the fire early enough, it might be possible to send a drone swarm to put it out.

Like everyone else, China have also had some massive wildfires in recent years and they're already throwing drones at the problem.

[CountyLines]

Thank goodness my villa is Portugal.

[sunnygym]

CountyLines said:

Thank goodness my villa is Portugal.

Not sure why you would post that but it makes you look like a total cretin.