Plug in hybrids
Discussion
Most of my driving is less than 30-40 miles per week. A few school runs, bit of pottering about, and I WFH so no commute. However, my parents are quite elderly and live 600miles away overseas and I'm needed over there 3 or 4 times a year to assist with bits and pieces. My current diesel estate is approaching the end of days and I'd rather something a little smaller as my child no longer needs pushchairs and whatnot. I'm thinking a plugin hybrid fits the bill quite nicely. Run on battery during the majority of the time, granny charging overnight, and still able to do the long runs without having to stop and add unnecessary hours to an already long journey. Budget wise I'm thinking £250ish per month. What are the best options?
I don’t think a plug in hybrid is going to help you
Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
xx99xx said:
For 3 to 4 times a year on long journeys, I'd be looking at an EV personally. You'd have to stop anyway on those sorts of long distances so it it shouldn't be an extra hassle to just plug in whilst you're stopped.
This.Assuming "overseas" means continental Europe, 600 miles per day is trivial. And an EV can be granny charged equally well (or better) than a PHEV.
I'd check the ABRP (A better route planner) results with the different EV options. That's where we started, wanting to confirm that an EV wouldn't work for us (standard trips: Switzerland to Bosnia, Puglia and Finland)...
A mate has a plug in hybrid which he's very happy with, great MPG on long runs, battery for local, it even tows well.
I think it cost quite a bit though, £250 a month is not much more than shed money when you get down to it.
It might average £250 a month if he keeps it 10 years!
If you don't do many miles, just look for a reliable petrol car with cheap tax if you want the lowest total cost.
EVs and hybrids may be cheap per mile, but you have to do the miles to save the money.
Depreciation, servicing, risk of it going BANG! are the big costs.
VED if it's a monster, fuel if you do lots of miles.
Having said that, I do like having a car that's cheap on fuel, it means I don't worry about the cost of doing a 600 mile trip, or going somewhere for no justifiable reason.
Above all, buy something you like, if possible!
I think it cost quite a bit though, £250 a month is not much more than shed money when you get down to it.
It might average £250 a month if he keeps it 10 years!
If you don't do many miles, just look for a reliable petrol car with cheap tax if you want the lowest total cost.
EVs and hybrids may be cheap per mile, but you have to do the miles to save the money.
Depreciation, servicing, risk of it going BANG! are the big costs.
VED if it's a monster, fuel if you do lots of miles.
Having said that, I do like having a car that's cheap on fuel, it means I don't worry about the cost of doing a 600 mile trip, or going somewhere for no justifiable reason.
Above all, buy something you like, if possible!
Tbh, I'd not really considered full EV but looking at ABRP it only involves a few 30min top ups which is fine for a coffee and a croissant on the way. I'd (wrongly, obviously!) assumed I'd be sat at some services for 3hrs. That's really helpful and gives plenty of food for thought going forward.
Maybe EV is the way forward after all! Thank you.
Maybe EV is the way forward after all! Thank you.
ashenfie said:
I don’t think a plug in hybrid is going to help you
Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
people are obsessing over the pay per mile and seeing extra tax as ruining it all, when that's not the case.Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
When charged on an overnight rate and ran in EV mode the PHEV will cost so much less per mile to run than the diesel that even with a 1.5p per mile add on it will still offer significant savings.
I have an PHEV and with an overnight rate of 3.9p/Kwh it equates to 1.6p/mile. For a diesel doing 60mpg at current fuel prices its 13p/mile
So even though the the 1.5p/mile effectively doubles my pence per mile to 3.1p it will still be saving 10p/mile over fuel.
Obviously as its a phev this only applies to pure electric running only. this accounts for the vast majority of my journeys. but when I do the occasional longer trips I then pay the petrol price per mile.
Edited by Buzz84 on Tuesday 28th July 15:16
Buzz84 said:
ashenfie said:
I don t think a plug in hybrid is going to help you
Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
people are obsessing over the pay per mile and seeing extra tax as ruining it all, when that's not the case.Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
When charged on an overnight rate and ran in EV mode the PHEV will cost so much less per mile to run than the diesel that even with a 1.5p per mile add on it will still offer significant savings.
I have an PHEV and with an overnight rate of 3.9p/Kwh it equates to 1.6p/mile. For a diesel doing 60mpg at current fuel prices its 13p/mile
So even though the the 1.5p/mile effectively doubles my pence per mile to 3.1p it will still be saving 10p/mile over fuel.
Obviously as its a phev this only applies to pure electric running only. this accounts for the vast majority of my journeys. but when I do the occasional longer trips I then pay the petrol price per mile.
Edited by Buzz84 on Tuesday 28th July 15:16
Mostly 7p Kwh since Iran. Still cheap.
But i m not so sure that Ev tariff is worthwhile for a Phev, due to the slightly higher day rate?
My wife has one, but works for us as I have a Bev.
ChatGpt would give a good personal estimate!
Edited by RotorRambler on Tuesday 28th July 16:09
250 a month is like 9k over 3 years for the car, on PCP maybe you can get something for that.
I had a BMW PHEV until earlier this year. I actually liked it you could do all your local short runs on battery and as you say use petrol for longer runs.
However I've now gone full EV. For my money I'd get a 2/h model 3 on PCP and just live with having to use a charger on that journey a couple of times a year. Just my 2p.
I had a BMW PHEV until earlier this year. I actually liked it you could do all your local short runs on battery and as you say use petrol for longer runs.
However I've now gone full EV. For my money I'd get a 2/h model 3 on PCP and just live with having to use a charger on that journey a couple of times a year. Just my 2p.
Our experience with our new (to us) GLC 300e if you're interested in what we have got so far.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Toyota PHEV and enjoy the balance of the 10 year service based warranty, their hybrid drive trains are proven to destruction and beyond, every taxi drive and his dog can't be wrong.
End of April we bought a new shape Prius PHEV pre reg some 30% off new price, if it was on finance probably far more than £250 but i haven't a clue about finance never use it...not boasting just have an aversion to keeping already stinking rich people in even more luxury at my cost.
If you're up to keeping a car for a long time could you up your budget accordingly?
Similar usage to yours, most running completed on home charging, no range worries or public charging issues for longer journeys, the fuel efficiency is staggering have only added £29 in petrol since and had to resort to deliberately not charging for a couple of weeks so i could use up the fuel in the tank and put some posh stuff in.
End of April we bought a new shape Prius PHEV pre reg some 30% off new price, if it was on finance probably far more than £250 but i haven't a clue about finance never use it...not boasting just have an aversion to keeping already stinking rich people in even more luxury at my cost.
If you're up to keeping a car for a long time could you up your budget accordingly?
Similar usage to yours, most running completed on home charging, no range worries or public charging issues for longer journeys, the fuel efficiency is staggering have only added £29 in petrol since and had to resort to deliberately not charging for a couple of weeks so i could use up the fuel in the tank and put some posh stuff in.
RotorRambler said:
Buzz84 said:
ashenfie said:
I don t think a plug in hybrid is going to help you
Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
people are obsessing over the pay per mile and seeing extra tax as ruining it all, when that's not the case.Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
When charged on an overnight rate and ran in EV mode the PHEV will cost so much less per mile to run than the diesel that even with a 1.5p per mile add on it will still offer significant savings.
I have an PHEV and with an overnight rate of 3.9p/Kwh it equates to 1.6p/mile. For a diesel doing 60mpg at current fuel prices its 13p/mile
So even though the the 1.5p/mile effectively doubles my pence per mile to 3.1p it will still be saving 10p/mile over fuel.
Obviously as its a phev this only applies to pure electric running only. this accounts for the vast majority of my journeys. but when I do the occasional longer trips I then pay the petrol price per mile.
Edited by Buzz84 on Tuesday 28th July 15:16
Mostly 7p Kwh since Iran. Still cheap.
But i m not so sure that Ev tariff is worthwhile for a Phev, due to the slightly higher day rate?
My wife has one, but works for us as I have a Bev.
ChatGpt would give a good personal estimate!
Edited by RotorRambler on Tuesday 28th July 16:09
When I changed onto the EV rate my day rate changes by a while 1p.
We also load shift so we delay and run higher consumption devices overnight in this cheap person so even though the day is slightly more we use a lot less energy in this period which amount to an overall saving
Smint said:
Toyota PHEV and enjoy the balance of the 10 year service based warranty, their hybrid drive trains are proven to destruction and beyond, every taxi drive and his dog can't be wrong.
End of April we bought a new shape Prius PHEV pre reg some 30% off new price, if it was on finance probably far more than £250 but i haven't a clue about finance never use it...not boasting just have an aversion to keeping already stinking rich people in even more luxury at my cost.
If you're up to keeping a car for a long time could you up your budget accordingly?
Similar usage to yours, most running completed on home charging, no range worries or public charging issues for longer journeys, the fuel efficiency is staggering have only added £29 in petrol since and had to resort to deliberately not charging for a couple of weeks so i could use up the fuel in the tank and put some posh stuff in.
This. End of April we bought a new shape Prius PHEV pre reg some 30% off new price, if it was on finance probably far more than £250 but i haven't a clue about finance never use it...not boasting just have an aversion to keeping already stinking rich people in even more luxury at my cost.
If you're up to keeping a car for a long time could you up your budget accordingly?
Similar usage to yours, most running completed on home charging, no range worries or public charging issues for longer journeys, the fuel efficiency is staggering have only added £29 in petrol since and had to resort to deliberately not charging for a couple of weeks so i could use up the fuel in the tank and put some posh stuff in.
Note 40 miles per week probably makes an EV electricity tariff pointless whether it’s for an EV or a phev as your daytime rate will go up considerably, unless you have home battery storage to eliminate day rates completely.
I have a phev for similar use - 20 miles per week trips here and there, then a monster 500-1000 miles a few times a year. Works as well as an EV on short journeys, you can go anywhere instantly in an emergency and the long trips are utterly seamless compared to EV. Yes I’ve tried Europe in an EV. Yes it added on stress, cost and several hours to trips, and that was with a Tesla, the easiest EV to charge.
Lease wise for a new car you’d get a selection of Chinese phevs for 250 a month but that wouldn’t be my choice, I’d go used Toyota or similar if possible.
Buzz84 said:
RotorRambler said:
Buzz84 said:
ashenfie said:
I don t think a plug in hybrid is going to help you
Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
people are obsessing over the pay per mile and seeing extra tax as ruining it all, when that's not the case.Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
When charged on an overnight rate and ran in EV mode the PHEV will cost so much less per mile to run than the diesel that even with a 1.5p per mile add on it will still offer significant savings.
I have an PHEV and with an overnight rate of 3.9p/Kwh it equates to 1.6p/mile. For a diesel doing 60mpg at current fuel prices its 13p/mile
So even though the the 1.5p/mile effectively doubles my pence per mile to 3.1p it will still be saving 10p/mile over fuel.
Obviously as its a phev this only applies to pure electric running only. this accounts for the vast majority of my journeys. but when I do the occasional longer trips I then pay the petrol price per mile.
Edited by Buzz84 on Tuesday 28th July 15:16
Mostly 7p Kwh since Iran. Still cheap.
But i m not so sure that Ev tariff is worthwhile for a Phev, due to the slightly higher day rate?
My wife has one, but works for us as I have a Bev.
ChatGpt would give a good personal estimate!
Edited by RotorRambler on Tuesday 28th July 16:09
When I changed onto the EV rate my day rate changes by a while 1p.
We also load shift so we delay and run higher consumption devices overnight in this cheap person so even though the day is slightly more we use a lot less energy in this period which amount to an overall saving
It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
Mostrum said:
Most of my driving is less than 30-40 miles per week. A few school runs, bit of pottering about, and I WFH so no commute. However, my parents are quite elderly and live 600miles away overseas and I'm needed over there 3 or 4 times a year to assist with bits and pieces. My current diesel estate is approaching the end of days and I'd rather something a little smaller as my child no longer needs pushchairs and whatnot. I'm thinking a plugin hybrid fits the bill quite nicely. Run on battery during the majority of the time, granny charging overnight, and still able to do the long runs without having to stop and add unnecessary hours to an already long journey. Budget wise I'm thinking £250ish per month. What are the best options?
For me, that's the ideal use case for a PHEV. I ran a Golf GTE for 4 years and did just shy of 100k miles in it. School runs, shopping, gym, train station all done on EV but the occasional long trip to the office or away for a weekend, fill the tank and go.ashenfie said:
I think the bit missing from the calculation is the electricity day rate and standing charge. An average user with a typical 10kwh daily usage doing 40miles per day will find that 4.7p being a lot closer to the 13p of the diesel user.
It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
Your last sentence is correct but the new shape Prius is an exception due to its nearly new used value, because its Plug In only and it is restricted in both boot space and rear seat headroom (plus those unusual rear door switches could well be a faff on taxi work) its just not popular with the taxi lads, hence they can actually be bought for the same price as an equivalent Corolla estate, if you don't need the estate car space they are quite a bargain particularly in Design spec which slots under luxury VED penalties.It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
Part of our decision was our solar array, we don't have an EV tariff because our export vastly outweighs any possible savings.
These things have become very individual choices depending on multiple factors.
ashenfie said:
I think the bit missing from the calculation is the electricity day rate and standing charge. An average user with a typical 10kwh daily usage doing 40miles per day will find that 4.7p being a lot closer to the 13p of the diesel user.
It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
exactly. why would a 40mile a week user have an ev tariff. the honest conversation starts at 27p/kwh.It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
CABC said:
ashenfie said:
I think the bit missing from the calculation is the electricity day rate and standing charge. An average user with a typical 10kwh daily usage doing 40miles per day will find that 4.7p being a lot closer to the 13p of the diesel user.
It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
exactly. why would a 40mile a week user have an ev tariff. the honest conversation starts at 27p/kwh.It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
Peak 40,71p 4pm-7pm ,
Off peak 19.2p
Super Off peak 14.81p.
Standing charge 49.35p
Hence the battery & solar. Day time the Solar lightens the load on the day time off peak tariff. The battery covers the 4pm-7pm and runs until empty. Now full EV tariff nearly all hike up the standing charge and have long day time periods. It would be nice to see a no standing charge tariff some time soon.
ashenfie said:
I have just switch to E.ON SmartSaverFixed
Peak 40,71p 4pm-7pm ,
Off peak 19.2p
Super Off peak 14.81p.
Standing charge 49.35p
Hence the battery & solar. Day time the Solar lightens the load on the day time off peak tariff. The battery covers the 4pm-7pm and runs until empty. Now full EV tariff nearly all hike up the standing charge and have long day time periods. It would be nice to see a no standing charge tariff some time soon.
exactly again. repeated quotes of 8p per kwh are disingenuous. but your main point is solar, a must now for anybody who can.Peak 40,71p 4pm-7pm ,
Off peak 19.2p
Super Off peak 14.81p.
Standing charge 49.35p
Hence the battery & solar. Day time the Solar lightens the load on the day time off peak tariff. The battery covers the 4pm-7pm and runs until empty. Now full EV tariff nearly all hike up the standing charge and have long day time periods. It would be nice to see a no standing charge tariff some time soon.
ashenfie said:
Buzz84 said:
RotorRambler said:
Buzz84 said:
ashenfie said:
I don t think a plug in hybrid is going to help you
Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
people are obsessing over the pay per mile and seeing extra tax as ruining it all, when that's not the case.Much. In 2028 the plug-in hybrids will also cost you 1.5p per
Mile even when driving abroad. Best option is a standard hybrid, if you get something like a Toyota yaris cross , you get around 50mpg most of the time, better on short journeys.
They start at around £250 per month new , less if you go for nearly new. No need to plug in and no pay per mile.
When charged on an overnight rate and ran in EV mode the PHEV will cost so much less per mile to run than the diesel that even with a 1.5p per mile add on it will still offer significant savings.
I have an PHEV and with an overnight rate of 3.9p/Kwh it equates to 1.6p/mile. For a diesel doing 60mpg at current fuel prices its 13p/mile
So even though the the 1.5p/mile effectively doubles my pence per mile to 3.1p it will still be saving 10p/mile over fuel.
Obviously as its a phev this only applies to pure electric running only. this accounts for the vast majority of my journeys. but when I do the occasional longer trips I then pay the petrol price per mile.
Mostly 7p Kwh since Iran. Still cheap.
But i m not so sure that Ev tariff is worthwhile for a Phev, due to the slightly higher day rate?
My wife has one, but works for us as I have a Bev.
ChatGpt would give a good personal estimate!
Edited by RotorRambler on Tuesday 28th July 16:09
When I changed onto the EV rate my day rate changes by a while 1p.
We also load shift so we delay and run higher consumption devices overnight in this cheap person so even though the day is slightly more we use a lot less energy in this period which amount to an overall saving
It would be better getting solar & a battery first then looking at the tariff. Many people would also do well with just a hybrid and save money over the extra plugin version.
The day rate isn't missing from the calculations either, It defeats the point of having an overnight EV rate to charge on the day. the point is that the car is charged and ready using the cheap electricity. even granny chargers can fill a PHEV within the cheap window. If I did happen to charge at my 26p day rate then it would still be cheaper than pure petrol power - the price per Kwh needs to get to about 50p/kwh to be comparable to petrol per mile.
As a full on example using Eons current rates:
Flat rate is 25.37p and 53.29P standing charge.
EV rate is 32.97p peak 9p off peak and 60p standing charge.
Yes, peak and standing charge for the EV is higher but it must be seen as a real world scenario.
For my house I use an average 17kwh a day, at a flat rate with the standing charge is £4.85 per day.
But if I take into consideration that the breakdown is 7kwh peak and 10kwh off peak - with the EV tariff it is £3.81 per day with the standing charge.
So it saves me money to go for the more expensive day rate and higher standing charge.
To go along with the above, Some real world figures from my experience of diesel vs PHEV - I have a 18 mile a day round trip to work, this is about 4500 miles per year.
The electric used the charge my current Volvo V60 T6 for the whole of 2025 was £100 (this was at 7p/kwh) - as its the year this also includes weekend driving trips too. obviously I do also use petrol - I fill up the petrol roughly every 2 months at about £65 a tank which is £390 a year. so my PHEV costs a total of £490 a year in.
Before this I had a diesel Audi A6 2.0TDI which did 550 to a tank doing all the same journeys and cost £110 fill so that was £880 per year. This means my PHEV is 44% cheaper on "fuel"
Say I did all my charging on a flat rate tariff, then the same amount of electricity would cost. £370. This would bring my yearly cost to £760, so even then in the worst case scenario the PHEV is still slightly cheaper.
But along with this it's incorrect to say a hybrid will save you money over a Plug in, its the other way round as Plug in hybrids are a step up in efficiency from hybrids as they don't need to consume petrol to generate their power like a self charging hybrid. (and if you forget to charge a PHEV it just becomes a HEV) While the gap will reduce slightly when the new government pay per mile tax is introduced it wont change overall.
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