Steering vibration - wheel fitment? Tearing my hair out!
Discussion
Not sure where to put this, will disappear off P1 of GG in 5 minutes but there seems very little traffic in suspension/tyres forum, and I'm not sure how relevant that is anyway...
Car is 2006 R52 MINI Cooper S convertible, factory 17" wheels.
A common mod is to fit early 00's MG/Rover 16" "hairpin" wheels as the bolt pattern/offset/centre bore is exactly the same. Bought a set, got them refurbished, new tyres fitted.
The MG wheels are originally fitted over studs with radiuses wheel nuts; the MINI wheels use bolts into the hubs with 60 degree tapered fitment. I bought some new bolts with a radius rather than the tapered edge.
Original MINI wheels:
MINI bolt hole/seat:
[/url]
New MG wheels:
MG bolt hole/seat:
New radiused bolt (L)/original tapered (R) bolt:
They seemed fine at first, although I wasn't sure about how much contact surface there was between the bolt and the wheel at the seat - but I quickly realised there was a vibration through the steering at around 70mph.
I took the wheels to get looked at and was told that they were completely out of balance - they rebalanced them and told me one was warped. I was shocked - took them back to the original refurbishers. They took the rogue wheel and put it on the machine where they said it had a slight warp but not out of tolerance.
Since then I have changed back to my original wheel bolts (tapered) and there didn't seem to be much, if any, improvement. I have also put the original MINI wheels back on (original bolts) and to drives fine so I can rule out anything else on the car.
One other thing I have read is that the MG wheels have some sort of lip that gets in the way when torqued up to the hub. However, most people just seem to have fitted them and had no problems. I have checked and the edges of the centre of the MG wheel are in contact with the hub but other bits are raised (see photos) is this a problem?
You can see not all of the wheel surface is in contact with the hub on the new (MG( wheels: - you can see where the paint is unmarked
Original MINI wheels, all of the wheel surface in contact with the hub:
Wheel hub:
As a last resort I contacted Lepsons in Gillingham to ask their opinion on the issue as I had used them in the past; they said they couldn't comment without seeing the car but when I asked them if I could bring it in they just told me they couldn't help me. I understand they don't want to become embroiled in somebody else's issues but at this stage if I need to get something machined or a wheel straightened I don't care and don't mind paying, so I was pretty disappointed in their response.
Any thoughts or suggestions? I am already a grand in and haven't been able to drive the car for several months. The only thing I can think of is taking it back to the original refurbishers but they weren't terribly interested when I first went back; I'm not looking to apportion blame or get freebies, I just want it sorted out.
If I'm honest the seats of the bolts on each wheel look different but they don't photograph well...
Help!
Car is 2006 R52 MINI Cooper S convertible, factory 17" wheels.
A common mod is to fit early 00's MG/Rover 16" "hairpin" wheels as the bolt pattern/offset/centre bore is exactly the same. Bought a set, got them refurbished, new tyres fitted.
The MG wheels are originally fitted over studs with radiuses wheel nuts; the MINI wheels use bolts into the hubs with 60 degree tapered fitment. I bought some new bolts with a radius rather than the tapered edge.
Original MINI wheels:
MINI bolt hole/seat:
[/url]New MG wheels:
MG bolt hole/seat:
New radiused bolt (L)/original tapered (R) bolt:
They seemed fine at first, although I wasn't sure about how much contact surface there was between the bolt and the wheel at the seat - but I quickly realised there was a vibration through the steering at around 70mph.
I took the wheels to get looked at and was told that they were completely out of balance - they rebalanced them and told me one was warped. I was shocked - took them back to the original refurbishers. They took the rogue wheel and put it on the machine where they said it had a slight warp but not out of tolerance.
Since then I have changed back to my original wheel bolts (tapered) and there didn't seem to be much, if any, improvement. I have also put the original MINI wheels back on (original bolts) and to drives fine so I can rule out anything else on the car.
One other thing I have read is that the MG wheels have some sort of lip that gets in the way when torqued up to the hub. However, most people just seem to have fitted them and had no problems. I have checked and the edges of the centre of the MG wheel are in contact with the hub but other bits are raised (see photos) is this a problem?
You can see not all of the wheel surface is in contact with the hub on the new (MG( wheels: - you can see where the paint is unmarked
Original MINI wheels, all of the wheel surface in contact with the hub:
Wheel hub:
As a last resort I contacted Lepsons in Gillingham to ask their opinion on the issue as I had used them in the past; they said they couldn't comment without seeing the car but when I asked them if I could bring it in they just told me they couldn't help me. I understand they don't want to become embroiled in somebody else's issues but at this stage if I need to get something machined or a wheel straightened I don't care and don't mind paying, so I was pretty disappointed in their response.
Any thoughts or suggestions? I am already a grand in and haven't been able to drive the car for several months. The only thing I can think of is taking it back to the original refurbishers but they weren't terribly interested when I first went back; I'm not looking to apportion blame or get freebies, I just want it sorted out.
If I'm honest the seats of the bolts on each wheel look different but they don't photograph well...
Help!
Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Tuesday 28th July 23:41
A few questions rather than answers:
1. Are you sure the radius of the bolts matches the radius of the MG wheel holes?
2. Are you sure that others who fit these wheels don't have those ridges machined flat so that the entire mating surface is in contact with the hub?
3. Have you considered cleaning the corrosion off the hubs? I wouldn't want to fit wheels to hubs looking like that.
4. Are you sure there aren't any bulges in the tyres you're fitting?
1. Are you sure the radius of the bolts matches the radius of the MG wheel holes?
2. Are you sure that others who fit these wheels don't have those ridges machined flat so that the entire mating surface is in contact with the hub?
3. Have you considered cleaning the corrosion off the hubs? I wouldn't want to fit wheels to hubs looking like that.
4. Are you sure there aren't any bulges in the tyres you're fitting?
NiceCupOfTea said:
You can see not all of the wheel surface is in contact with the hub on the new (MG( wheels: - you can see where the paint is unmarked
I can't see what you mean but there should absolutely NOT be paint on the mating surface between wheel and hub. If the muppet refurbisher has painted that surface you need to strip it off with some wire wool.Why? Because paint isn't capable of giving the level of friction need to keep the wheel still on the hub, even with correctly tapered bolts, let alone any incorrect ones.
Wheels don't hang on their bolts and don't stand on the centre spigot. It's friction between wheel and hub (applied via the bolts) which makes the system work.
king arthur said:
Have you tried swapping the wheels front to rear to see if the problem is isolated to one particular wheel?
This is what I would do. I'd be surprised if this i is anything other than a balancing problem. On more than one occasion I've had to get wheels balanced twice.
NiceCupOfTea said:
You can see not all of the wheel surface is in contact with the hub on the new (MG( wheels: - you can see where the paint is unmarked
Not an expert but I don't like the look of that at all - there's not much surface of the wheel in contact with the hub. I wonder if the wheel might be distorting if the area around the bolt hole isn't being pulled tight onto the hub, or the the tightness of the bolts becomes uncertain because of the gap?
LunarOne said:
A few questions rather than answers:
1. Are you sure the radius of the bolts matches the radius of the MG wheel holes?
2. Are you sure that others who fit these wheels don't have those ridges machined flat so that the entire mating surface is in contact with the hub?
3. Have you considered cleaning the corrosion off the hubs? I wouldn't want to fit wheels to hubs looking like that.
4. Are you sure there aren't any bulges in the tyres you're fitting?
1. No - I've not seen anywhere where you can buy different radii(?) or any spec listed for the wheels1. Are you sure the radius of the bolts matches the radius of the MG wheel holes?
2. Are you sure that others who fit these wheels don't have those ridges machined flat so that the entire mating surface is in contact with the hub?
3. Have you considered cleaning the corrosion off the hubs? I wouldn't want to fit wheels to hubs looking like that.
4. Are you sure there aren't any bulges in the tyres you're fitting?
2. Not sure - but nobody in any of the multiple threads where they have been fitted has mentioned it
3. I know they don't look great but I'm not sure that's the issue. I will get around to it but just want it driving right
4. They're brand new tyres - no bulges
For those who mentioned it - the first thing I did was swap front to back and it made no difference 
With regards painted surfaces - interesting point. This is quite an established local company to me. At this stage I don't know if I am going back there with the query. Clearly taking them elsewhere will be a problem if Lepson's attitude is anything to go by
With regards painted surfaces - interesting point. This is quite an established local company to me. At this stage I don't know if I am going back there with the query. Clearly taking them elsewhere will be a problem if Lepson's attitude is anything to go by
Den Den said:
Without being too specific, which area is the original refurb firm in?
Bromley. I have no problem with them and I'm not blaming them, they look great and they refurbed another one for me a year or so back. I'm happy to pay if one needs straightening or the hub facing surfaces/bolt seats need to be machined. I just want to know what the problem is so I can get it sorted. And who I could ask!WelshPetrolhead said:
My ZT 18 alloys have a ridged hub face like those, so that s normal at the very least.
That's good to know, thanks.Starting to wonder if the centre bores have been machined out. MINIs are 56.1mm, these seem ever so slightly larger (but I can't fit my vernier caliper into the dish of the wheel
). I have a vague recollection of the guy I bought them from saying he bought them for a project Golf. I notice that Golfs have a 57.1mm centre bore so.... You can get spigot rings to convert from 57.1 to 56.1, but surely that means they have a width of 0.5mm!? Seems a bit unrealistic. I will be furious if I can't use the wheels for that reason as I've put a lot of money into them... And still not sure what wheel bolts to use!In the photograph of the MINI hub, the mounting face is not simply one flat disc: there are raised areas around the bolt holes and geometry around the centre spigot. The back of the MG wheel has its own reliefs/recesses. If those two geometries interfere, the wheel can contact the hub at a few points before the wheel's intended mounting face is properly seated.
First thing i'd be doing is taking a wire wheel in an electric drill and cleaning the hub and centre spigot right up, particularly where there is a lumpy build up of old corroded alloy and/or rust between the centre spigot and the drum.
Gently chip/scrape this away with an old chisel or old screwdriver if necessary, it shouldnt be there:
Also take any paint off the mating face of the wheel.
Gently chip/scrape this away with an old chisel or old screwdriver if necessary, it shouldnt be there:
Also take any paint off the mating face of the wheel.
Edited by chris1roll on Friday 31st July 08:29
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