Courtesy car had no MOT, tax or insurance - advice please

[fatsuperman]

Hi everyone,

My son just got pulled over by the police whilst driving a courtesy car, which was provided by a garage who are repairing his car. Turns out the car had no tax, MOT and therefore also no valid insurance. My son has been given the three relevant motoring offenses (12 points!), and now has to wait to hear more - which will probably take months.

We know it is the driver's responsibility, but had never thought to check. He actually got the rear tyres changed last week as they were basically bald - this should have rung the alarm bell to be honest.

Has anyone got any experience with this? Is there anything he can do, or is it a forgone conclusion?

Thanks,
Fats

[vikingaero]

No tax or MOT does NOT mean no insurance. It could have no insurance, but no tax or MOT does not normally invalidate insurance.

Could this be the company car defence where you reasonably expect a car to be taxed and MOTed?

[Oilchange]

"Turns out the car had no tax, MOT and therefore also no valid insurance"

So was the car insured or not?

No Tax and MOT aside, a car can still be insured. How do you expect to get it to the MOT centre, legally, for it's MOT?

[fatsuperman]

Apologies, he is 20 years old, so it's fairly hard to get explicit, sensible detail out of him. They have given him 3 motor offences, he says one is 'for insurance'. He definitely signed paperwork when he picked the car up and gave them his license and relevant details for insurance. I haven't seen the paperwork yet.

Would be keen to hear whether anyone has similar experience and what happened.

Cheers

[Super Sonic]

The registered keeper is responsible for tax. Your son is not the registered keeper. How has he been charged for this?

[Oilchange]

If he goes to court we'll see how many offences he's guilty of won't we.

[fatsuperman]

Thanks all, ok have got to the bottom of it.

Charged for:
Driving without a valid MOT
Driving without insurance


The latter may be proved false once he can speak to the garage on Monday.

[Super Sonic]

No MOT is a non endorsable offence.

[fatsuperman]

Thanks all. I understand that it is the driver's responsibility to check these things.

I'm just asking if this has happened to anyone else, did they go to magistrate's court and what happened?

[Ian Geary]

The mot checker website can show straight away if a car has an mot or not.

(Assuming the car is over 3 years old, as it won't need one until it's 3rd birthday.)

The insurance one definately needs the garage to answer, bit ask mid might give some limited info about cover.

It is harsh, and i can't believe plod specifically their indivudual vehicle is insured evey morning before they drive it...

(Though advancing that argument during a traffic stop is unlikely to be productive, for obvious reasons)

[Super Sonic]

Was the car impounded?

[M4cruiser]

Best advice is don't use that garage again.

[Richard-D]

fatsuperman said:

Hi everyone,

My son just got pulled over by the police whilst driving a courtesy car, which was provided by a garage who are repairing his car. Turns out the car had no tax, MOT and therefore also no valid insurance. My son has been given the three relevant motoring offenses (12 points!), and now has to wait to hear more - which will probably take months.

We know it is the driver's responsibility, but had never thought to check. He actually got the rear tyres changed last week as they were basically bald - this should have rung the alarm bell to be honest.

Has anyone got any experience with this? Is there anything he can do, or is it a forgone conclusion?

Thanks,
Fats

No insurance would be 6 points. Where do the other 6 come from?

[fatsuperman]

Thanks for the replies and advice all, totally agree it's certainly something to check when getting in any car you don't already own and know well.

Interested to learn if this has happened to anyone else and whether there was any leeway at court or not.

Thanks!

[INeedAHero]

Check contract of what he signed with garage, what does it say about insurance?

Also check your son's insurance, perhaps that will cover it? Actally phone them and ask them on the phone as it will be recorded.

Does his insurance responsible for spplying the car, in that case, it will be in their terms and conditions.

Might be fight in court over the contracts. So you might need a good solicitor.

[nordboy]

fatsuperman said:

Thanks all, ok have got to the bottom of it.

Charged for:
Driving without a valid MOT
Driving without insurance


The latter may be proved false once he can speak to the garage on Monday.

Ok, he hasn't been given any points yet? He's potentially confused by the whole situation. You're saying he's been charged with the above offences and you're speaking with the garage Monday? Which implies that he's only just been stopped by the police so wouldn't have attended magistrates court yet nor the case been heard in court. Or that he's pleaded guilty by post to the offences?

Do you mean that he's been stopped and given Endorsable fixed penalty, reported for summons or a Traffic offence report? If so, then you have some time to get all the paperwork/ facts/ evidence before it does.

Is it a courtesy car that's being paid for by an insurance company? If so, then his existing policy may well cover the car anyway.

How old is the courtesy car? Does it even require a MOT yet?

There's a load of missing information here, before a better answer can be given.

[Alex Z]

fatsuperman said:

Thanks all. I understand that it is the driver's responsibility to check these things.

I've never checked the MOT status on a courtesy vehicle provided by a garage. Granted most of them would have been less than three years old, but It wouldn't cross my mind to do so, unless the car was obviously a shed.

[paul_c123]

I would worry about the alleged offences in this order:

- no insurance
- no MoT
- no tax

Firstly, under which policy is he insured? Did he assume he was covered by the garage's insurance but in fact isn't (they may very well have motor trade insurance in place, but its application may be restricted to named drivers, accompanied test drives etc, ie no courtesy car cover). If not the garage, does his own insurance have a clause in place to cover him in this situation?

MoT - its a minor offence (no points and £100 fine) but he's bang to rights there. It is the driver's responsibility (as well as the garage's).

No tax - it is the registered keeper who is liable here. If the car is "in trade", then it would be the trader.

[No ideas for a name]

fatsuperman said:

We know it is the driver's responsibility, but had never thought to check. He actually got the rear tyres changed last week as they were basically bald - this should have rung the alarm bell to be honest.

What is this bit about - he changed tyres on the garage's courtesy car?
Or he took it back for them to change.
So, he has had this loan vehicle for a while?

Is this a main dealer type operation or a little back-street one?
How did the Police determine it isn't insured? It might be under a policy but not showing on MID.

[paul_c123]

Ian Geary said:

It is harsh, and i can't believe plod specifically their indivudual vehicle is insured evey morning before they drive it...

I can't fully work out your garbled grammar, but as a point of interest, police are exempt from needing (conventional) insurance. See Road Traffic Act 1988 section 142 (2) (b)