Thorneys latest on oil pumps

[TTB]

I've just watched Thorneys latest vid on Facebook about the oil pumps and wanted to see if this was a very rare issue being highlighted or something becoming more common? And as such how many are considering replacing theirs with the uprated version just in case - albeit a 3k job?

When I ran TVRs the S6 could fail due tot he bottom end bearing lunching itself (as I found out to my cost) and it soon became an upgrade of choice for a number of owners to swap to an uprated one to avoid a costly rebuild - is it going to become similar with these oil pumps?

[TBCTBC]

I took it as a bit of a scare story.

He mentioned 3 failures in the last 2 months.

He's been looking after hundreds of McLarens for years and has only mentioned this now.

Hope I haven't jinxed myself

[davek_964]

I don't tend to watch his videos.

But it's not something I've heard of in ~6 years of ownership. There are of course some issues that are fairly common, but this isn't one I've heard of / seen mentioned before.

[Zorbathegreek]

TBCTBC said:

I took it as a bit of a scare story.

He mentioned 3 failures in the last 2 months.

He's been looking after hundreds of McLarens for years and has only mentioned this now.

Hope I haven't jinxed myself

I took as a heads-up as a reason that oil pumps could be excluded from the Thorney warranty if a failure occurs. If my memory is working correctly, I recall that there isn’t a written Thorney warranty. All is down to a unilateral decision by JT if a failure would be covered. That was a while ago, so there may now be a formal document?

At £3K a failure, thats gonna hurt the bottom line.

[carbonblack]

If the oil pump goes it ll probably be a minimum of 10 times the cost of a £3k pump with damage to the engine.

Thorney replied to a comment on the warranty question on the video stating it would be wear and tear - so seemingly suggesting it would not covered, nor the damage as a result.

[TTB]

carbonblack said:

If the oil pump goes it ll probably be a minimum of 10 times the cost of a £3k pump with damage to the engine.

Thorney replied to a comment on the warranty question on the video stating it would be wear and tear - so seemingly suggesting it would not covered, nor the damage as a result.

I agree on that - it's more a do we chance it (first I guess many of us have heard of the issue) or do we pay 3k or so and alleviate any potential worry. Im in for a service in Oct at Renn Works so will have a chat with Sam about it

[TBCTBC]

Zorbathegreek said:

I took as a heads-up as a reason that oil pumps could be excluded from the Thorney warranty if a failure occurs. If my memory is working correctly, I recall that there isn t a written Thorney warranty. All is down to a unilateral decision by JT if a failure would be covered. That was a while ago, so there may now be a formal document?

At £3K a failure, thats gonna hurt the bottom line.

Their website specifically mentions that there is still no formal warranty document.

https://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/mclaren-warran...

[David W.]

TTB said:

I agree on that - it's more a do we chance it (first I guess many of us have heard of the issue) or do we pay 3k or so and alleviate any potential worry. Im in for a service in Oct at Renn Works so will have a chat with Sam about it

If McLaren have improved the part and I guess that says something.

[650S]

[quote=TTB] And as such how many are considering replacing theirs with the uprated version just in case - albeit a 3k job?

To answer your question, I intend to talk to John and subject to there being some material (no pun) improvement in the pump shaft / needle bearing design, then I will get the upgraded pump.

Some research and images of pumps that were inspected during engine builds shows the original pump shaft and needle roller bearing design is marginal.

As usual imo, Thorney are ahead of the curve and the scope of their capabilities has drawn the failures to their premises for resolution. John shares all this stuff for precious little thanks sometimes it seems.

With engineering failures, prevention is better than cure.
I could not care less about warranty, but I used them to PPI my 650S and was super impressed.

[200Plus Club]

https://youtu.be/bnA7laiq0Bs?is=Io3GD3-aGQrudr_T

Skip to 4mins30s and McMedics guy shows you the actual problem. The number of failures however is another issue, according to JWM they think its very uncommon, top end cam/follower wear being more prevalent particularly after cold abuse.

[TBCTBC]

200Plus Club said:

https://youtu.be/bnA7laiq0Bs?is=Io3GD3-aGQrudr_T

Skip to 4mins30s and McMedics guy shows you the actual problem. The number of failures however is another issue, according to JWM they think its very uncommon, top end cam/follower wear being more prevalent particularly after cold abuse.

Thanks. Did Thorney mention the "if you notice the low oil pressure light on, stop driving immediately and get it transported to a garage" bit which seems fairly sensible and critical advice, which according to the video, would save the engine?

The way I (possibly incorrectly on my part) interpreted the Thorney video was "if the oil pump fails, your engine is toast"

[TTB]

TBCTBC said:

Thanks. Did Thorney mention the "if you notice the low oil pressure light on, stop driving immediately and get it transported to a garage" bit which seems fairly sensible and critical advice, which according to the video, would save the engine?

The way I (possibly incorrectly on my part) interpreted the Thorney video was "if the oil pump fails, your engine is toast"

I interpreted it similar to you, at one point IIRC he says theres usually no warning of it going.

[200Plus Club]

TBCTBC said:

Thanks. Did Thorney mention the "if you notice the low oil pressure light on, stop driving immediately and get it transported to a garage" bit which seems fairly sensible and critical advice, which according to the video, would save the engine?

The way I (possibly incorrectly on my part) interpreted the Thorney video was "if the oil pump fails, your engine is toast"

You'd have to immediately shut off and pray for luck, as it'll literally only take seconds to start doing damage if the engine is under load etc

[CTE]

I`ve owned three Mac`s over the last 10 years and never heard of this before but it looks like it can be a real issue, but again it appears that it is caused by the needle roller bearing running dry, so engines sitting around too long?? Might be wrong but the American guy said that it was caused "if the bearings ran dry"?
I have not seen the Thorney video so does this potential issue relate to all cars or just specific models/engines/year of manufacture etc?

[TBCTBC]

CTE said:

I`ve owned three Mac`s over the last 10 years and never heard of this before but it looks like it can be a real issue, but again it appears that it is caused by the needle roller bearing running dry, so engines sitting around too long?? Might be wrong but the American guy said that it was caused "if the bearings ran dry"?
I have not seen the Thorney video so does this potential issue relate to all cars or just specific models/engines/year of manufacture etc?

Thorney mentioned it had happened on 3 cars in the last two months, all were different - I may be wrong by a 570s, 650s and 720s?

[Zorbathegreek]

200Plus Club said:

https://youtu.be/bnA7laiq0Bs?is=Io3GD3-aGQrudr_T

Skip to 4mins30s and McMedics guy shows you the actual problem. The number of failures however is another issue, according to JWM they think its very uncommon, top end cam/follower wear being more prevalent particularly after cold abuse.

Who did you speak with at JWM? Arnie? My 650S is currently with them so may take the opportunity to do some preventative maintenance if it s a real concern.

Or maybe just have the shaft inspected for wear?
The video you posted is really good /informative. This link skips directly to the issue > https://youtu.be/bnA7laiq0Bs?t=260

Edited by Zorbathegreek on Thursday 20th August 12:50

[TTB]

Zorbathegreek said:

Who did you speak with at JWM? Arnie? My 650S is currently with them so may take the opportunity to do some preventative maintenance if it s a real concern.

Or maybe just have the shaft inspected for wear?
The video you posted is really good /informative. This link skips directly to the issue > https://youtu.be/bnA7laiq0Bs?t=260

Edited by Zorbathegreek on Thursday 20th August 12:50

Thank you for that. How easy is it to remove the shaft and inspect before shelling or for a pump that may or may not be needed?

[200Plus Club]

Zorbathegreek said:

200Plus Club said:

https://youtu.be/bnA7laiq0Bs?is=Io3GD3-aGQrudr_T

Skip to 4mins30s and McMedics guy shows you the actual problem. The number of failures however is another issue, according to JWM they think its very uncommon, top end cam/follower wear being more prevalent particularly after cold abuse.

Who did you speak with at JWM? Arnie? My 650S is currently with them so may take the opportunity to do some preventative maintenance if it s a real concern.

Or maybe just have the shaft inspected for wear?
The video you posted is really good /informative. This link skips directly to the issue > https://youtu.be/bnA7laiq0Bs?t=260

Edited by Zorbathegreek on Thursday 20th August 12:50

Jack but I'd also be interested to hear thoughts if the shaft can be easily checked at a service for instance.

Edited by 200Plus Club on Thursday 20th August 15:50

[200Plus Club]

https://youtube.com/shorts/vscfqBrO36Y?is=8NJNyAV4...
These guys have also done a video where an engine let go after the pump failed, they routinely fit the later 720 oil pump on all their builds anyway.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9jtDvC7lZx0?is=MHsKGXwo...

Edited by 200Plus Club on Thursday 20th August 15:49

[Oaky]

How on earth can the Thorney “warranty” not be documented? One cannot contract on that basis? I interpreted the video as the usual self-promotion