Modern Classics - Proposed new Emissions Regulations

[Samcat]

There might already be a topic on this, sorry if I've missed it.

https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/what-the-propo...

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/in-use...

[KadettE]

If I read that right it only applies to cars from after 2001? It seems they haven't really got an idea yet on how to check emissions beyond what's tested at MOT either.

[aeropilot]

We're only 5 years away from 1991 cars being 40 years old (when cats were introduced)

I can't see the rolling 40 year MOT exemption continuing for post 1990 made vehicles, because of the emissions issue.

Since they re-introduced it at 40 years, I've always thought that they will stop it at Dec 31st 1989, and for any car first registered after 1st Jan 1990, you will never get the historic zero rate VED and MOT exemption status.

Edited by aeropilot on Friday 28th August 16:13

[Steve-B]

There are some interesting tidbits in there, as it almost reads that "boy racers' " mods could invalidate their roadworthiness. That might not be such as bad thing as there's some right deathtraps on the roads in our county.

One bit of feedback was on timeline for them to implement and I said it should be in line with other in-progress legilation (2030, 2035) to aid harmonisation plus I did add feedback that garage/repair shops will need more than 6mo to make sure their kit can deal with any changes.

I've done their survey, don't know what'll come of it but will be curious to keep an eye on this one.

PS> I posted a link to this thread into a similar thread in "Speeding, Plod and the Law"...

Edited by Steve-B on Friday 28th August 14:37

[irish boy]

I feel for people who have ridiculously expensive adblue or dpf problems, who possible didn’t research/bought the wrong car or were mid sold. But at the same time removing them and having a mouthful of fumes while out for a walk or cycle needs tightening up on.

[DodgyGeezer]

is this going to be a backdoor way of forcing classics (and/or grey imports) off the road under the guise of 'emissions'?

[SS427 Camaro]

DodgyGeezer said:

is this going to be a backdoor way of forcing classics (and/or grey imports) off the road under the guise of 'emissions'?

Im thinking the same.........

[TomTheTyke]

DodgyGeezer said:

is this going to be a backdoor way of forcing classics (and/or grey imports) off the road under the guise of 'emissions'?

No, this is conspiracy tinfoil hat stuff. There s no agenda in the government for that. Classics represent a tiny fraction of miles driven but contribute a lot to the economy.

This is about modern cars, which make up the majority of miles driven, being sold to a certain emissions standard then driving around emitting more through DPF deletes etc.

You can argue it s a bad policy or that DPFs and AdBlue aren t worth having (I have some sympathy with this) but it s not about forcing classics off the road; such paranoia seems rife, perhaps more so on FB groups than here.

Edit: Just to add an example, I saw a FB post copied and pasted to a couple of groups saying any car that didn’t meet its factory emissions exactly would be off the road, cue much frothing.

Read the proposal and there’s an exemption that basically says if all equipment is fitted and working the emissions are beyond the control of the owner and it’ll be fine.

It’s just a ban on EGR deletes, AdBlue deletes and DPF deletes in the same way decats are already prohibited.

Edited by TomTheTyke on Friday 28th August 15:32

[craigjm]

TomTheTyke said:

DodgyGeezer said:

is this going to be a backdoor way of forcing classics (and/or grey imports) off the road under the guise of 'emissions'?

No, this is conspiracy tinfoil hat stuff. There s no agenda in the government for that. Classics represent a tiny fraction of miles driven but contribute a lot to the economy.

This is about modern cars, which make up the majority of miles driven, being sold to a certain emissions standard then driving around emitting more through DPF deletes etc.

You can argue it s a bad policy or that DPFs and AdBlue aren t worth having (I have some sympathy with this) but it s not about forcing classics off the road; such paranoia seems rife, perhaps more so on FB groups than here.

Agree with this. Mainly about people removing stuff they shouldnt

[Steve-B]

DodgyGeezer said:

is this going to be a backdoor way of forcing classics (and/or grey imports) off the road under the guise of 'emissions'?

It is about post 1990-2000 cars being compliant in some form, that's clear if you actually do the questionaire!

[DodgyGeezer]

Steve-B said:

DodgyGeezer said:

is this going to be a backdoor way of forcing classics (and/or grey imports) off the road under the guise of 'emissions'?

It is about post 1990-2000 cars being compliant in some form, that's clear if you actually do the questionaire!

hence the mention of 'grey' imports - AIUI, they don't have official emissions figures in the UK. I am going to have to have a looksee at the questionnaire though

[Yertis]

TomTheTyke said:

No, this is conspiracy tinfoil hat stuff. There s no agenda in the government for that. Classics represent a tiny fraction of miles driven but contribute a lot to the economy.

This is about modern cars, which make up the majority of miles driven, being sold to a certain emissions standard then driving around emitting more through DPF deletes etc.

You can argue it s a bad policy or that DPFs and AdBlue aren t worth having (I have some sympathy with this) but it s not about forcing classics off the road; such paranoia seems rife, perhaps more so on FB groups than here.

Edit: Just to add an example, I saw a FB post copied and pasted to a couple of groups saying any car that didn t meet its factory emissions exactly would be off the road, cue much frothing.

Read the proposal and there s an exemption that basically says if all equipment is fitted and working the emissions are beyond the control of the owner and it ll be fine.

It s just a ban on EGR deletes, AdBlue deletes and DPF deletes in the same way decats are already prohibited.

Edited by TomTheTyke on Friday 28th August 15:32

EGR is complete PITA and my car is pissing out coolant and running like a bag of crap because of it (Audi making all the EGR stuff out of plastic that cracks, and soot clooging up the inlet tract) BUT I must admit I was surprised EGR delete was legal in the first place (along with people removing their cats).

[craigjm]

DodgyGeezer said:

is this going to be a backdoor way of forcing classics (and/or grey imports) off the road under the guise of 'emissions'?

OK let’s have a look



Let’s say they did extend that to “all cars” what is wrong with a car needing to meet the criteria that was in place when it was built? If your car doesn’t require a cat, dpf, ppf, erg etc what could they disqualify you for? Most classic owners who have modified their car in some way generally would mean it exceeds the emissions of the time. If they wanted to get classic cars off the road all they would have to say was that the cars would have to meet a 2018 onwards MOT criteria.

[Oldwolf]

Interesting, my 1990 MX5 NA has had the cat removed as it doesn't require one at that age (no issue with MOTs) so would that fail under the new regs?

[Steve-B]

Can’t say I disagree with your conclusions. To wit:

- 1973 TR6 comes from an age that they didn’t exist past the pong & smoke tests
- 2014(64) Forester doesn’t pass ULEZ but exact same engine in 2015 does with same emissions
- 2023 Lexus hybrid passes and likely will continue to pass indefinitely

Each car supposedly improves emissions…

[craigjm]

Oldwolf said:

Interesting, my 1990 MX5 NA has had the cat removed as it doesn't require one at that age (no issue with MOTs) so would that fail under the new regs?

Well no because the regs are for 2001 onwards

[Virtual PAH]

Seems they are just updating the rules that already apply at MOT, for the emissions systems be present for visual inspection if they were required to be fitted when new to comply with the rules of the time, and also for the emissions at the exhaust tail pipe be within tolerance. So they'll just enforce those rules for Euro 3 onwards if 2001 is the earliest they're interested in.

Basically if your car will pass an MOT there's nothing to worry about.