Kitchen work surfaces.
Discussion
We have just bought a house and are in the middle of a full on renovation.
One of the tings we are doing is a full kitchen & I have only ever done one work surface joint before, which was in a cheapie & didn't really matter that much, so I just clamped both together, cut with a circular saw, masticked the joint & screwed them together underneath with the screws angled inwards to pull both halves together & it worked pretty well.
This time however Mrs E will not be impressed if I do that so I am going to get the joining bolts & router out the "bone" shape underneath & join them properly as I now have a router, but I have a couple of other questions.
The joint will be end-to-end rather than an "L" shape.
Do you join the cut ends or the "good" ends?
Do I also need to router in a few biscuit joints?
I assume a router is better to cut out sink/hob cut outs?
I also assume it is best to do the cut-outs with the worksurface fitted so that it is stable?
Any other tips?
One of the tings we are doing is a full kitchen & I have only ever done one work surface joint before, which was in a cheapie & didn't really matter that much, so I just clamped both together, cut with a circular saw, masticked the joint & screwed them together underneath with the screws angled inwards to pull both halves together & it worked pretty well.
This time however Mrs E will not be impressed if I do that so I am going to get the joining bolts & router out the "bone" shape underneath & join them properly as I now have a router, but I have a couple of other questions.
The joint will be end-to-end rather than an "L" shape.
Do you join the cut ends or the "good" ends?
Do I also need to router in a few biscuit joints?
I assume a router is better to cut out sink/hob cut outs?
I also assume it is best to do the cut-outs with the worksurface fitted so that it is stable?
Any other tips?
Large cutouts can weaken an unfitted worktop, so if you move the worktop after cutting them, be careful how you lift it.
Get some scrap to practise on.
I'm not sure what best practice is to seal the cut ends before closing the joint.
Have any joints as far away from wet areas, i.e. sink and cooker, as possible?
Get some scrap to practise on.
I'm not sure what best practice is to seal the cut ends before closing the joint.
Have any joints as far away from wet areas, i.e. sink and cooker, as possible?
I presume you're going for solid wood.
Just ensure you research the ongoing care and maintenance they require. Assume annual sanding and reoiling, assume twice daily wipe downs of water. Assume fastidious attention around the sink for water/damp.
Wood worktops look greater in the showroom, but can quickly become a real faff in a well used kitchen.
Just ensure you research the ongoing care and maintenance they require. Assume annual sanding and reoiling, assume twice daily wipe downs of water. Assume fastidious attention around the sink for water/damp.
Wood worktops look greater in the showroom, but can quickly become a real faff in a well used kitchen.
A lot of assumptions above. 
My bad, I should have been more specific.
Done stone, done quartz, got bored with all after a few years, which in reality means you are NEVER going to go to the expense of changing them if you get bored of them due to cost.
So we are going 20mm boggo worktops.
My bad, I should have been more specific.
Done stone, done quartz, got bored with all after a few years, which in reality means you are NEVER going to go to the expense of changing them if you get bored of them due to cost.
So we are going 20mm boggo worktops.
Chris Stott said:
Assume you're talking about laminate worktops?
Unless you're on a budget, why not go for porcelain (man made stone)? Completely heat proof, water/stain proof and scratch proof. By far the best worktop material nowadays. You'll not be fitting them yourself though.
Dekton is supposed to be really good.Unless you're on a budget, why not go for porcelain (man made stone)? Completely heat proof, water/stain proof and scratch proof. By far the best worktop material nowadays. You'll not be fitting them yourself though.
You can buy templates for routing worktop joints. Not expensive and work well. But caution advised because they assume that the corners of the room are square.
In older houses this is rarely the case.
DAMHIK.
The templates still work, but you may need to compensate for out-of-square irregularities.
If you're joining end to end, choose the factory machined ends. The others will presumably be covered by trim anyway.
In older houses this is rarely the case.
DAMHIK.
The templates still work, but you may need to compensate for out-of-square irregularities.
If you're joining end to end, choose the factory machined ends. The others will presumably be covered by trim anyway.
If you are using laminate, DO NOT rely on the factory end of the board being good enough for a join.
My kitchen has a 5 metre straight run. Kitchen fitter cut the first board, then butted the factory end of the second board up to it. The rounded profile edge is very slightly mismatched, presumably because the end of the board was a bit wonky before it was wrapped.
Barely noticeable unless the light catches it, but I know it's there, and it's annoyed me for 12 years now.
My kitchen has a 5 metre straight run. Kitchen fitter cut the first board, then butted the factory end of the second board up to it. The rounded profile edge is very slightly mismatched, presumably because the end of the board was a bit wonky before it was wrapped.
Barely noticeable unless the light catches it, but I know it's there, and it's annoyed me for 12 years now.
E-bmw said:
A lot of assumptions above.
My bad, I should have been more specific.
Done stone, done quartz, got bored with all after a few years, which in reality means you are NEVER going to go to the expense of changing them if you get bored of them due to cost.
So we are going 20mm boggo worktops.
Even timber would probably be better than boggo for a worktop.My bad, I should have been more specific.
Done stone, done quartz, got bored with all after a few years, which in reality means you are NEVER going to go to the expense of changing them if you get bored of them due to cost.
So we are going 20mm boggo worktops.
Mazinbrum said:
Chris Stott said:
Assume you're talking about laminate worktops?
Unless you're on a budget, why not go for porcelain (man made stone)? Completely heat proof, water/stain proof and scratch proof. By far the best worktop material nowadays. You'll not be fitting them yourself though.
Dekton is supposed to be really good.Unless you're on a budget, why not go for porcelain (man made stone)? Completely heat proof, water/stain proof and scratch proof. By far the best worktop material nowadays. You'll not be fitting them yourself though.
If you've got a template then you should be able to use it as a straight square reference; skim 0.25mm off the cut ends and get something better than the factory surface. Track saw would do a tidy job too with a suitable blade. I would never trust the original ends to be perfectly square or absolutely straight without any cutting marks.
I'd usually use a biscuit jointer for doing the biscuits (as I've got one) though with the right cutter a router will do it. The only positional bit that really matters is that they're all the same height from the reference surface and that they're tight. A wider slot is fine, a tall one definitely not. Depth depends on the biscuit! Usually pretty easy if your tools are any good.
It's mostly pretty trivial with the right gear (and checking its all correct before you cut!) though some of these worktops will eat carbide cutters pretty quickly.
I'd usually use a biscuit jointer for doing the biscuits (as I've got one) though with the right cutter a router will do it. The only positional bit that really matters is that they're all the same height from the reference surface and that they're tight. A wider slot is fine, a tall one definitely not. Depth depends on the biscuit! Usually pretty easy if your tools are any good.
It's mostly pretty trivial with the right gear (and checking its all correct before you cut!) though some of these worktops will eat carbide cutters pretty quickly.
Mazinbrum said:
Chris Stott said:
Assume you're talking about laminate worktops?
Unless you're on a budget, why not go for porcelain (man made stone)? Completely heat proof, water/stain proof and scratch proof. By far the best worktop material nowadays. You'll not be fitting them yourself though.
Dekton is supposed to be really good.Unless you're on a budget, why not go for porcelain (man made stone)? Completely heat proof, water/stain proof and scratch proof. By far the best worktop material nowadays. You'll not be fitting them yourself though.
When I did our kitchen last year I'd almost discounted stone after getting an initial quote... then I spoke to another supplier who had access to pretty much every brand available, some of which were less than half the price.
I ended up choosing Ascale.
E-bmw said:
I assume a router is better to cut out sink/hob cut outs?
I also assume it is best to do the cut-outs with the worksurface fitted so that it is stable?
Jig saw is usually easier for cutouts that are going to have concealed edges. Or do it with a track/plunge saw & TCT blade for nice straight edges, though you'll need to finish it in the bottom parts of the corners - Japanese saw is good if wood, otherwise jigsaw with the right blade for the material. Big issue with using a router is that it's slow, bulky & turns a lot of material into dust. Only time a router is really needed is for an exposed cutout like an undermount sink.I also assume it is best to do the cut-outs with the worksurface fitted so that it is stable?
Where to do it - depends on how stable it would be for moving after cutting and that has many solutions to make it work; maybe its natively strong enough, maybe you clamp something to it to stiffen it while moving. Big issues with cutting in-situ are access (can you get the tools in, especially near the wall), mess, and risk of tools clashing with stuff underneath.
clockworks said:
If you are using laminate, DO NOT rely on the factory end of the board being good enough for a join.
My kitchen has a 5 metre straight run. Kitchen fitter cut the first board, then butted the factory end of the second board up to it. The rounded profile edge is very slightly mismatched, presumably because the end of the board was a bit wonky before it was wrapped.
Barely noticeable unless the light catches it, but I know it's there, and it's annoyed me for 12 years now.
I've bought a couple of '3m lengths' of worktop in my time.My kitchen has a 5 metre straight run. Kitchen fitter cut the first board, then butted the factory end of the second board up to it. The rounded profile edge is very slightly mismatched, presumably because the end of the board was a bit wonky before it was wrapped.
Barely noticeable unless the light catches it, but I know it's there, and it's annoyed me for 12 years now.
Both have been over length, with bare chip board beyond the laminate.
The last one was a bit comical, I'd made space for 3m to be delivered, it was long enough not to go in the space available. 305cm maybe?
The ends of the laminate were 90degrees more accurately than I could measure.
In the dark ages when I worked in a DIY shed, some worktops had factory finished end faces, i.e. covered in laminate.
If you buy a shorter length, it might be cut by a wholesaler or retailer? so might, or might not be super-accurate.
The other thing is, don't practise too much, laminate shags router cutters.
I can't get too annoyed by minor imperfections in the kitchen, it's a working room if you want something nice to look at, the view out the window is a better bet than the furniture.
JoshSm said:
E-bmw said:
I assume a router is better to cut out sink/hob cut outs?
I also assume it is best to do the cut-outs with the worksurface fitted so that it is stable?
Jig saw is usually easier for cutouts that are going to have concealed edges. Or do it with a track/plunge saw & TCT blade for nice straight edges, though you'll need to finish it in the bottom parts of the corners - Japanese saw is good if wood, otherwise jigsaw with the right blade for the material. Big issue with using a router is that it's slow, bulky & turns a lot of material into dust. Only time a router is really needed is for an exposed cutout like an undermount sink.I also assume it is best to do the cut-outs with the worksurface fitted so that it is stable?
JoshSm said:
Where to do it - depends on how stable it would be for moving after cutting and that has many solutions to make it work; maybe its natively strong enough, maybe you clamp something to it to stiffen it while moving. Big issues with cutting in-situ are access (can you get the tools in, especially near the wall), mess, and risk of tools clashing with stuff underneath.
My thoughts exactly ref cutting in situ rather than transporting/manoeuvring something potentially much more fragile. When I said in situ, I should have been more specific, I meant on to top of the units for support, but mot actually installed if that makes sense.Error_404_Username_not_found said:
The templates still work, but you may need to compensate for out-of-square irregularities.
If you're joining end to end, choose the factory machined ends. The others will presumably be covered by trim anyway.
Yes, I am and that was my thought, to use the factory ends if they are square & finished perfectly.If you're joining end to end, choose the factory machined ends. The others will presumably be covered by trim anyway.
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