Probate, IHT and St James Place
Discussion
TL;DR (and I expect I know the answer)
Elderly relative passed away
Estate was subject to IHT
Estate was granted Probate
Funds were distributed
End of story
Or, as it turns out, not, thanks to SJP
1 final investment fund is yet to crystalise (blah blah property, sales blah blah)
Money involved is small beer ~£10k
Probate lawyer doesn't want to deal with it as its small beer
Interim payment made, remainder to follow
I assume HMRC will be wanting their share of this at some point?
Elderly relative passed away
Estate was subject to IHT
Estate was granted Probate
Funds were distributed
End of story
Or, as it turns out, not, thanks to SJP
1 final investment fund is yet to crystalise (blah blah property, sales blah blah)
Money involved is small beer ~£10k
Probate lawyer doesn't want to deal with it as its small beer
Interim payment made, remainder to follow
I assume HMRC will be wanting their share of this at some point?
I imagine that IHT has been paid then there will be some more needs paying on the last remaining investment?
Are there any other taxes to pay (capital gains etc) on any gains made on investments from the declared date of death values to the date of settling values?
My mums estate has been granted probate with us having paid the IHT, and we are cashing in her investments etc. However we firmly believe that she had some shares which we can't find any reference of, and we are still searching. If they materialise we will have to pay some more IHT and possibly CGT on any increase in values since date of her death,
Are there any other taxes to pay (capital gains etc) on any gains made on investments from the declared date of death values to the date of settling values?
My mums estate has been granted probate with us having paid the IHT, and we are cashing in her investments etc. However we firmly believe that she had some shares which we can't find any reference of, and we are still searching. If they materialise we will have to pay some more IHT and possibly CGT on any increase in values since date of her death,
Edited by The Gauge on Friday 4th September 14:04
I guess this is one SJP ‘s “ frozen “ property funds but nevertheless is the responsibility of the Executor to insure that all aspects of the estate are included for probate / IHT purposes.
Given its frozen nature I assume that when unfrozen then potentially it’s CGT that may be due ?
Was there a solicitor involved in the estate wrap up or diy ?
Given its frozen nature I assume that when unfrozen then potentially it’s CGT that may be due ?
Was there a solicitor involved in the estate wrap up or diy ?
alscar said:
I guess this is one SJP s frozen property funds but nevertheless is the responsibility of the Executor to insure that all aspects of the estate are included for probate / IHT purposes.
Given its frozen nature I assume that when unfrozen then potentially it s CGT that may be due ?
Was there a solicitor involved in the estate wrap up or diy ?
There was a Probate lawyer involved in the wrap up, but they've relinquished responsibility as the value is low and obviously they don't think its worth their time (or ridiculously minimal to date effort)Given its frozen nature I assume that when unfrozen then potentially it s CGT that may be due ?
Was there a solicitor involved in the estate wrap up or diy ?
And yes, its a frozen property fund that SJP are disposing of. Some disposal has been done to date, hence the interim payment. The remainder should be done by end of calendar year. I think it was all wrapped in an ISA, as the account in question starts ISA
alscar said:
Wrap up should have included all aspects so bit naughty of solicitors not to want to be involved as presumably they have charged you for the whole job they were contracted for ?
Yup - this sounds like they simply have not done the job they were paid to do.If they were “disinterested”, I would be pointing this out and asking about their complaints procedure to raise this to their ombudsman, might get their attention.
Dimebars said:
Probate lawyer doesn't want to deal with it as its small beer
Which of the following applies?A. You agreed a fixed fee for winding up the entire estate however long it took. Highly unlikely.
B. The lawyer previously billed for work completed and wants paying if more work is done. Probably indicated they could do it for you but the cost could be significant in the context of the modest tax liability.
C. Lawyer has refused point blank.
Either way, you know there's an IHT liability, you know the value of the asset and you know the tax is 40%. All you need to do is ask the probate lawyer which form you need to complete, get one from the HMRC website, post it off and pay the tax. HMRC should then send you a final certificate confirming all tax has been paid and you can distribute the remaining cash to beneficiaries.
Where is that cash? Somebody must must have told SJP where to send it.
(IF there's CGT to deal with as well you'll also need to do another tax return for that.)
As above , actual payment of any os tax be it IHT and / or CGT isn’t that complicated but not the point.
Having experienced SJP ‘s bereavement process for a relative as part of my Executorship it was very simple and orderly to arrange.
I was even able to cash in some of the funds and “reinvest “ them into a MM account to protect the profit as part of the decision process in “ maximising “ any beneficiaries inheritance.
Thinking about your issue ( which isn’t overly complicated ) again as above I would certainly be going back to the solicitors to politely but firmly enquire as to why this wasn’t correctly sorted when they originally closed down the accounts ?
Having experienced SJP ‘s bereavement process for a relative as part of my Executorship it was very simple and orderly to arrange.
I was even able to cash in some of the funds and “reinvest “ them into a MM account to protect the profit as part of the decision process in “ maximising “ any beneficiaries inheritance.
Thinking about your issue ( which isn’t overly complicated ) again as above I would certainly be going back to the solicitors to politely but firmly enquire as to why this wasn’t correctly sorted when they originally closed down the accounts ?
alscar said:
Wrap up should have included all aspects so bit naughty of solicitors not to want to be involved as presumably they have charged you for the whole job they were contracted for ?
They took their fee, yes, based on the original numbers. I'm not too fussed about them stepping back as they were useless anywayPanamax said:
Which of the following applies?
A. You agreed a fixed fee for winding up the entire estate however long it took. Highly unlikely.
B. The lawyer previously billed for work completed and wants paying if more work is done. Probably indicated they could do it for you but the cost could be significant in the context of the modest tax liability.
C. Lawyer has refused point blank.
Either way, you know there's an IHT liability, you know the value of the asset and you know the tax is 40%. All you need to do is ask the probate lawyer which form you need to complete, get one from the HMRC website, post it off and pay the tax. HMRC should then send you a final certificate confirming all tax has been paid and you can distribute the remaining cash to beneficiaries.
Where is that cash? Somebody must must have told SJP where to send it.
(IF there's CGT to deal with as well you'll also need to do another tax return for that.)
A. The fee was on a % basis of total estateA. You agreed a fixed fee for winding up the entire estate however long it took. Highly unlikely.
B. The lawyer previously billed for work completed and wants paying if more work is done. Probably indicated they could do it for you but the cost could be significant in the context of the modest tax liability.
C. Lawyer has refused point blank.
Either way, you know there's an IHT liability, you know the value of the asset and you know the tax is 40%. All you need to do is ask the probate lawyer which form you need to complete, get one from the HMRC website, post it off and pay the tax. HMRC should then send you a final certificate confirming all tax has been paid and you can distribute the remaining cash to beneficiaries.
Where is that cash? Somebody must must have told SJP where to send it.
(IF there's CGT to deal with as well you'll also need to do another tax return for that.)
B. The lawyer has deducted this from the "original" value and distibuted the balance as everyone though job was complete
C. Not refused per se, but reticent to bother their arses
The funds are in my father's account, separated from all other transactions and waiting to be shared (minus 40%)
Dimebars said:
The funds are in my father's account, separated from all other transactions and waiting to be shared (minus 40%)
My point is this - someone is going to have to give them instructions about what to do with the money. Clearly some of it needs to go to HMRC and some of it to individual beneficiaries. I doubt that SJP will do all of this (although I don't know) and anticipate they will expect to pay the entire sum either to a firm of solicitors or to an identified Executors' Account at one of the high street banks. Do you have such an executors' account under your control or did everything go through the solicitors?In summary, there's both form filling to be done for HMRC and then the practicalities of moving the money around.
N.B. This is assuming the deceased was your father. If your father is still alive, how did he get the money from SJP?
Panamax said:
My point is this - someone is going to have to give them instructions about what to do with the money. Clearly some of it needs to go to HMRC and some of it to individual beneficiaries. I doubt that SJP will do all of this (although I don't know) and anticipate they will expect to pay the entire sum either to a firm of solicitors or to an identified Executors' Account at one of the high street banks. Do you have such an executors' account under your control or did everything go through the solicitors?
In summary, there's both form filling to be done for HMRC and then the practicalities of moving the money around.
This isn't either SJP's fault or responsibility to sort but is the Executors or in this case the Solicitors handling.In summary, there's both form filling to be done for HMRC and then the practicalities of moving the money around.
It is a just one part of handling the estate,nothing more nothing less.
Once SJP release the funds they can do so to either the Solicitor direct or the OP if he has then ditched them !
Dimebars said:
alscar said:
Wrap up should have included all aspects so bit naughty of solicitors not to want to be involved as presumably they have charged you for the whole job they were contracted for ?
They took their fee, yes, based on the original numbers. I'm not too fussed about them stepping back as they were useless anywayPanamax said:
My point is this - someone is going to have to give them instructions about what to do with the money. Clearly some of it needs to go to HMRC and some of it to individual beneficiaries. I doubt that SJP will do all of this (although I don't know) and anticipate they will expect to pay the entire sum either to a firm of solicitors or to an identified Executors' Account at one of the high street banks. Do you have such an executors' account under your control or did everything go through the solicitors?
In summary, there's both form filling to be done for HMRC and then the practicalities of moving the money around.
N.B. This is assuming the deceased was your father. If your father is still alive, how did he get the money from SJP?
Deceased is his sister. I can only assume that the bank details were given to SJP by the lawyerIn summary, there's both form filling to be done for HMRC and then the practicalities of moving the money around.
N.B. This is assuming the deceased was your father. If your father is still alive, how did he get the money from SJP?
I'll go check what forms need filling with HMRC
So if your Dad's an executor, fill in the tax adjustment form for HMRC, pay the tax to HMRC and then distribute the rest. It should be straightforward. I'm assuming he has the IHT reference number used in connection with the original form IHT400. HMRC need to be able to join the dots.
Separately, there's a form IHT30 which executors can use to get a "final discharge" from HMRC once all tax on the estate has been paid.
Separately, there's a form IHT30 which executors can use to get a "final discharge" from HMRC once all tax on the estate has been paid.
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