No Action for Baseball Bat "Offensive Weapon"

[irc]

Sorry, couldn't find original thread. No action against guy arrested for carrying a baseball bat.

Video includes suspect saying he was meeting his friend to play baseball right at the start and being totally ignored by cop.


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rL-0NhYVjWk

[Heaveho]

As is becoming normal now, the police once again have shown themselves as a ridiculous institution who can't be relied upon to make good judgements on a basic, common sense level. No wonder they garner so little trust or respect. This from someone who grew up at a time when the reverse was true.

[BertBert]

From the video that is being shown it is clear that the situation has escalated by time the video starts. The struggle has started way before the guy with the bat says he is meeting his friend to play baseball. By that time the police guy has already got his cuffs out, so stuff must have gone on before what we can see there. Without that it's very hard to make a judgement on the officer's actions.

[Simpo Two]

Heaveho said:

As is becoming normal now, the police once again have shown themselves as a ridiculous institution who can't be relied upon to make good judgements on a basic, common sense level.

Isn't that mostly caused by 'management' or politicians who force PC drivel on them?

(PC Drivel in this case is not a police officer but Politically Correct Drivel!)

[Heaveho]

Simpo Two said:

Isn't that mostly caused by 'management' or politicians who force PC drivel on them?

(PC Drivel in this case is not a police officer but Politically Correct Drivel!)

Sorry, I can't get past how great a name PC Drivel is.

[kestral]

Blackbelt Barrister talking rubbish again.

As usual we only see the bits of the video he wants us to see.

The bits missing are were the police officer suspects that there maybe a breach of the peace so questions the person walking around the streets with a baseball bat ( I know we see it every day don't we!). The guy then becomes uncooperative and refused to hand the bat over.

[butchstewie]

This was discussed on NP&E.

I don't think the officer comes out of it looking good but normal people don't walk around town centres carrying baseball bats and if they're asked why they have one and they have a legitimate reason they'd just act like normal human beings and they wouldn't kick off like that.

[Derek Smith]

In the City police we has a P. C. Woodley. When he became a detective he would introduce himself as DC P.C. Woodley, but rapidly.

A baseball bat can be an offensive weapon, obviously, and it is reasonable for a police officer to enquire into the carrier. It can be a problem to gain enough evidence to effect an arrest. Lack of cooperation is a bit that way. Just saying I'm going to play baseball is not sufficient reason to abandon an arrest as what else is he going to say. Common sense really.

If the holder refused to identify himself, saying you've got no right, etc, then that's another hint. If there had been a spate of assaults by baseball bats in the area, I'd nick him.

The video is useless without the build up, as I assume the editor must have known.

[Ghs]

butchstewie said:

This was discussed on NP&E.

I don't think the officer comes out of it looking good but normal people don't walk around town centres carrying baseball bats and if they're asked why they have one and they have a legitimate reason they'd just act like normal human beings and they wouldn't kick off like that.

I’ve had my baseball bat for 30+ yrs I’d guess and had no issues with the police ,I often walked down to the park with it to have a game of baseball with my girl , nephews etc , didn’t hide it , never thought to , police were a lot more sensible in the old days , though I’ve no idea if a police car passed me or not , wasn’t bothered ,
Cricket bats were the same , often wandered down the streets to the park with it , never thought anything about it , old days the police were more likely join in for a over or two than arrest you for carrying a offensive weapon ( cricket bat ) , oh for the old days & sensible policing .

[Ghs]

Ghs said:

I ve had my baseball bat for 30+ yrs I d guess and had no issues with the police ,I often walked down to the park with it to have a game of baseball with my girl , nephews etc , didn t hide it , never thought to , police were a lot more sensible in the old days , though I ve no idea if a police car passed me or not , wasn t bothered ,
Cricket bats were the same , often wandered down the streets to the park with it , never thought anything about it , old days the police were more likely join in for a over or two than arrest you for carrying a offensive weapon ( cricket bat ) , oh for the old days & sensible policing .

I do remember a plasterer comming to do our bedroom ceiling , he came down with a pale face saying there’s a baseball bat on the top of the stairs !! I said I know , it’s for if you don’t do a decent job of the ceiling , I think he wanted to run but went up & did a top job of the ceiling & even did a few rough bits on the walls .
He was always busy when I rang him for any plaster work at a later day , I chuckle about it to this day .

[Simpo Two]

Heaveho said:

Sorry, I can't get past how great a name PC Drivel is.

See if you can find the story of PC World and the bat detector! It's on PH somewhere.

[Ian Geary]

Derek Smith said:

A baseball bat can be an offensive weapon, obviously, and it is reasonable for a police officer to enquire into the carrier. It can be a problem to gain enough evidence to effect an arrest. Lack of cooperation is a bit that way. Just saying I'm going to play baseball is not sufficient reason to abandon an arrest as what else is he going to say. Common sense really.

If the holder refused to identify himself, saying you've got no right, etc, then that's another hint. If there had been a spate of assaults by baseball bats in the area, I'd nick him.

The video is useless without the build up, as I assume the editor must have known.

Ok, so thinking this through

- a baseball bat holder needs a "lawful excuse" to carry an offensive weapon.

- without a "lawful excuse", plod can arrest to confirm ID

- allowing the situation to escalate to breach of peace is also an easy arrest.

So it hinges on this lawful excuse.

What will plod accept?

- f off and mind your own business:- i can't see how police could accept that
- I'm going to hit someone with it:- also a no
- I'm off to play baseball- hmm maybe

But won't everyone say that, you say?

So how is anyone supposed to take a baseball bat to play baseball?

They can't use a transporter, because that tech hasn't been invented yet.

Invisibility cloak? That's from a story.

A long, baseball.shaped bag?

It has de facto created a situation where an angry plod can arrest anyone with a baseball bat, rendering the sporting equipment effectively illegal anywhere (well, apart from at home or a baseball pitch)

We can't see the start of the video - true- , but what are you needing to see?

What proof could there be that people are looking for of his intention to play baseball that isn't there later in the clip? (Given we know police will already dismiss his reply as "well he would say that")

What magic words other than " i am going to play baseball" could he have said to avoid the copper arresting him?

I put it to you: nothing.

Ultimately the copper needs a massive attitude adjustment, and one thing we can all be certain of is that he will receive zero cummupence for his poor judgement whilst making the police look like fools.


And this is on the day a police officer was buried with great dignity.

I just wish the police would expect better of the few colleagues they have that collectively make them so easy to criticise.

Another example: the copper who slams his shield into an old fellow at the Portsmouth protest this week. Zero need for it: his brief power trip just causes hassle for police everywhere else.

I can't see how people support that sort of behaviour.

[SlimJim16v]

As another example of how out of touch with reality the police are, though BTP in this case, you may remember the flasher on a train that was detained by members of the public last year. The investigation into 3 of them for assault has only now been dropped by the CPS.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/heroes-who-bo...

[Derek Smith]

Ian Geary said:

Ok, so thinking this through

- a baseball bat holder needs a "lawful excuse" to carry an offensive weapon.

- without a "lawful excuse", plod can arrest to confirm ID

- allowing the situation to escalate to breach of peace is also an easy arrest.

So it hinges on this lawful excuse.

What will plod accept?

- f off and mind your own business:- i can't see how police could accept that
- I'm going to hit someone with it:- also a no
- I'm off to play baseball- hmm maybe

But won't everyone say that, you say?

So how is anyone supposed to take a baseball bat to play baseball?

They can't use a transporter, because that tech hasn't been invented yet.

Invisibility cloak? That's from a story.

A long, baseball.shaped bag?

It has de facto created a situation where an angry plod can arrest anyone with a baseball bat, rendering the sporting equipment effectively illegal anywhere (well, apart from at home or a baseball pitch)

We can't see the start of the video - true- , but what are you needing to see?

What proof could there be that people are looking for of his intention to play baseball that isn't there later in the clip? (Given we know police will already dismiss his reply as "well he would say that")

What magic words other than " i am going to play baseball" could he have said to avoid the copper arresting him?

I put it to you: nothing.

Ultimately the copper needs a massive attitude adjustment, and one thing we can all be certain of is that he will receive zero cummupence for his poor judgement whilst making the police look like fools.


And this is on the day a police officer was buried with great dignity.

I just wish the police would expect better of the few colleagues they have that collectively make them so easy to criticise.

Another example: the copper who slams his shield into an old fellow at the Portsmouth protest this week. Zero need for it: his brief power trip just causes hassle for police everywhere else.

I can't see how people support that sort of behaviour.

It might be a good idea to give thinking a rest until you've seen someone do it properly.

No one has suggested anyone needs a lawful excuse to carry a baseball bat. It is perfectly legal to have one with you.

It is entirely reasonable for a police officer to approach and question someone carrying a baseball bat in public.

I’ll ignore the somewhat childish transporter/invisibility cloak rubbish.

The start of the video might show what happened before the officer arrested the chap, you know, stuff like the reasons for the officer’s belief it was what he was required to do. I thought it obvious, but there you go.

You want to make a point by using the funeral of a police officer killed on duty. Some might feel that’s inappropriate. You know, someone like me.

Not sure what using a shield in a public order situation has to do with this arrest.

I’d suggest viewing a few of the posts of the chap who posted this one, all the time remembering he gets paid for clicks and such. I mean, think about that.

[Aretnap]

Ian Geary said:

Derek Smith said:

A baseball bat can be an offensive weapon, obviously, and it is reasonable for a police officer to enquire into the carrier. It can be a problem to gain enough evidence to effect an arrest. Lack of cooperation is a bit that way. Just saying I'm going to play baseball is not sufficient reason to abandon an arrest as what else is he going to say. Common sense really.

If the holder refused to identify himself, saying you've got no right, etc, then that's another hint. If there had been a spate of assaults by baseball bats in the area, I'd nick him.

The video is useless without the build up, as I assume the editor must have known.

Ok, so thinking this through

- a baseball bat holder needs a "lawful excuse" to carry an offensive weapon.

Not really. The law divides "offensive weapons" (other than knives and guns, which are covered by specific legislation), into 3 categories

(a) Those designed for causing injury (eg martial arts equipment) - offensive weapons per se
(b) Those adapted for causing injury - eg a baseball bat with nails driven through it, and
(c) Those made or adapted for some other purpose, but which could also be used to cause injury (eg a baseball bat or cricket bat)

(a) and (b) are illegal to carry jn public without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. (c) however is only illegal if it's carried with the intention of using it as a weapon - and in that case intention is an element of the offence so it's for the prosecution to prove intent. Without evidence of intent, lawful excuse is neither here nor here.

Intent can of course be inferred from circumstances. If you are taking your kids to the park while carrying a baseball bat, a baseball and a baseball glove it would be rather difficult to prove that you intended to use it as a weapon. OTOH if you turned up at a hotel with a baseball bat while wearing a balaclava with a load of other racist thugs in tow, it would be fairly easy to prove intent - and nobody would be remotely interested if you yelled "but I'm off to play baseball". There are a thousand scenarios in between those extremes. Without seeing the full context of the incident it's impossible to make any judgement on what grounds the officer might have had for suspecting intent, so there's little point in getting outraged over half a video which has obviously been chosen to generate maximum outrage (and therefore views).

[ac.cobra]

Only thicko people carry baseball bats openly in a public places like town centre or city centre and where is his all baseball uniform, footwear and a helmet and his rucksack doesn't even look anywhere full.
He deserves to be suspicious.
I would have problem with him too.

[snuffy]

ac.cobra said:

Only thicko people carry baseball bats openly in a public places like town centre or city centre and where is his all baseball uniform, footwear and a helmet and his rucksack doesn't even look anywhere full.
He deserves to be suspicious.
I would have problem with him too.

Ace in Dr Who used to have one sticking out of her rucksack and no one took any notice at all!

[TGTiff]

I cannot have a small baseball / rounders bat in my car without justifiable cause. Yet....I am encouraged to keep a torch / flashlight in my car! Where does this leave me with my 4 x D cell maglight?