Is getting to enjoy cars getting just too Expensive
Discussion
As an avid driver and petrol head i have always chosen to grab the keys to the car as a means of enjoyment, a means of stress relief, of therapy. Be that road trips, b-road blasts, car shows. But. It feels like its finally gotten to the point where the cost is prohibitively stopping me from enjoying cars.
Car shows - unless you are talking your small village field type shows, the majority of major shows will cost you near £100 for a family to visit.
If you can stomach the cost then you have to factor fuel in. Nearing a £100 a full tank and my car does about an avg 24mpg from its turbocharged 4pot or about 220miles to a tank of combined driving. You have to be lucky if a show is on your doorstep.
Say you want to take a day trip to the beach or to drive the roads of Wales (Scotland if you are nearer). Then a trip around Wales will easily take you two tanks of fuel before you've even spent another penny.
It no longer becomes a case of just not thinking to pick up the keys and go for a blast, it becomes a thought of is it really worth spending the money on the fuel.
Add to this the hikes in tax, insurance year on year. Even now with EV's you are starting to see many of the benefits on tax and cost eroded by stupid RRP prices and tax hikes. Then you've got the ballooning electricity costs.
Now....once you've factored in the lack of joy you can derive as a normal human being enjoying your one hobby and means of escape. You come to the end of life in your car. Say you'e lost all the residual value because you've driven and used your car - no one seems to want to buy anything that hasn't just been a garage queen. So you lose an even bigger percentage out the back - which ok, you can swallow because you've used your car and you've enjoyed it. But. That leaves you with a defecit for buying your next car. Which you want to enjoy and have fun in as well. However, the market means you are paying over the odds on EVERY car on the market. Your old £1000 banger is now £3000. Your average hot hatch has gone from £3000-5000 to £7000-£10000 and all of them are ropey and badly maintained because no one wants to part with a good car and WBAC has flooded the used trade with sh*tboxes that have been horrendously cared for. The last 3 cars i've bought have all died within months. From reputable dealers and not for little money.
I can't be the only normal petrolhead that can't afford a supercar that is feeling the pinch on the enjoyment of driving and being a petrolhead anymore? It just doesn't feel as fun as it used to be. In fact you can't really have fun anymore because everywhere you drive is a camera, a van, a police officer itching to make an example out of car drivers and enthusiasts.
So yes, its a Monday, yes i'm moaning but it would be nice to know i'm not alone in just being fundamentally put off by being a petrolhead and you have to wonder is that aim ? Do you think we are systematically targeted financially to make sure we don't want to drive, that roads are empty of enthusiasts and petrol lovers?
I don't know but i am fed up of it and my love of cars is fast disappearing.
Car shows - unless you are talking your small village field type shows, the majority of major shows will cost you near £100 for a family to visit.
If you can stomach the cost then you have to factor fuel in. Nearing a £100 a full tank and my car does about an avg 24mpg from its turbocharged 4pot or about 220miles to a tank of combined driving. You have to be lucky if a show is on your doorstep.
Say you want to take a day trip to the beach or to drive the roads of Wales (Scotland if you are nearer). Then a trip around Wales will easily take you two tanks of fuel before you've even spent another penny.
It no longer becomes a case of just not thinking to pick up the keys and go for a blast, it becomes a thought of is it really worth spending the money on the fuel.
Add to this the hikes in tax, insurance year on year. Even now with EV's you are starting to see many of the benefits on tax and cost eroded by stupid RRP prices and tax hikes. Then you've got the ballooning electricity costs.
Now....once you've factored in the lack of joy you can derive as a normal human being enjoying your one hobby and means of escape. You come to the end of life in your car. Say you'e lost all the residual value because you've driven and used your car - no one seems to want to buy anything that hasn't just been a garage queen. So you lose an even bigger percentage out the back - which ok, you can swallow because you've used your car and you've enjoyed it. But. That leaves you with a defecit for buying your next car. Which you want to enjoy and have fun in as well. However, the market means you are paying over the odds on EVERY car on the market. Your old £1000 banger is now £3000. Your average hot hatch has gone from £3000-5000 to £7000-£10000 and all of them are ropey and badly maintained because no one wants to part with a good car and WBAC has flooded the used trade with sh*tboxes that have been horrendously cared for. The last 3 cars i've bought have all died within months. From reputable dealers and not for little money.
I can't be the only normal petrolhead that can't afford a supercar that is feeling the pinch on the enjoyment of driving and being a petrolhead anymore? It just doesn't feel as fun as it used to be. In fact you can't really have fun anymore because everywhere you drive is a camera, a van, a police officer itching to make an example out of car drivers and enthusiasts.
So yes, its a Monday, yes i'm moaning but it would be nice to know i'm not alone in just being fundamentally put off by being a petrolhead and you have to wonder is that aim ? Do you think we are systematically targeted financially to make sure we don't want to drive, that roads are empty of enthusiasts and petrol lovers?
I don't know but i am fed up of it and my love of cars is fast disappearing.
It isn't as easy to have some fun in a car anymore now as you say. Plus running costs are growing by the minute with fuel/tax etc as you allude to. But I do still think it is worth it if you still have a passion for it though.
I popped out in the Caterham last week for a 40 mile fun drive for example, and I hardly ever had a car in front or behind me, but I'm lucky to be surrounded with quiet and nice roads though in fairness, and obviously others won't have that luxury in comparison. The insurance is only just over a £150 a year as well, plus it's really good on fuel too. So it isn't impossible to still have some fun if you really want it for me.
I popped out in the Caterham last week for a 40 mile fun drive for example, and I hardly ever had a car in front or behind me, but I'm lucky to be surrounded with quiet and nice roads though in fairness, and obviously others won't have that luxury in comparison. The insurance is only just over a £150 a year as well, plus it's really good on fuel too. So it isn't impossible to still have some fun if you really want it for me.
R2Detour said:
I don't know but i am fed up of it and my love of cars is fast disappearing.
I'm pretty much the same.Not been a toy in the garage for a few years now.
Swapped my daily Seat Mii 59bhp for an Up Gti, and I think that's just enough fun for me (Grandad driver alert)
I guess everything is just going to get more expensive, especially for the motorist, we're easy targets.
I'll always have a scooter though. Fun, usually free to park, cheap to insure, 80mpg, other road users 99% very good towards the two wheelers.
Edited by Trevor555 on Monday 14th September 12:01
Agreed.
For me, the effect of gaining enjoyment from a car is more necessary than ever, but more unaffordable than ever. My wife passed away in July age 37 from cancer - we have a 5 year old son.
I did have a Japan Red BMW E90 LCI 330i Msport (with a manual box too) which I had put a lot of money into. Whilst my wife was alive, I did some maths and worked out that on a single income, I simply wouldn't have the disposable income or time to enjoy it. On top of everything you've mentioned, to me personally, older cars are more engaging. However, these older cars bring more headaches of storage (degradation of rubber, etc., during storage, or just general issues arising from not being used regularly).
I sold it last month, to me, it was my enthusiast car, but it was too expensive to justify. I have a BMW 530e now. It is a great car, cheaper to run, looks nice and I can get 20-25 miles pure electric range. It doesn't make me want to grab the keys like the 330i did and I will not be able to own a car purely from a hobby point of view again. Anything I buy now will be a compromise of running costs, looks and performance. A big part of that is how expensive cars have become to run. I'll always be a car enthusiast; enjoyment simply won't be the primary outcome.
For me, the effect of gaining enjoyment from a car is more necessary than ever, but more unaffordable than ever. My wife passed away in July age 37 from cancer - we have a 5 year old son.
I did have a Japan Red BMW E90 LCI 330i Msport (with a manual box too) which I had put a lot of money into. Whilst my wife was alive, I did some maths and worked out that on a single income, I simply wouldn't have the disposable income or time to enjoy it. On top of everything you've mentioned, to me personally, older cars are more engaging. However, these older cars bring more headaches of storage (degradation of rubber, etc., during storage, or just general issues arising from not being used regularly).
I sold it last month, to me, it was my enthusiast car, but it was too expensive to justify. I have a BMW 530e now. It is a great car, cheaper to run, looks nice and I can get 20-25 miles pure electric range. It doesn't make me want to grab the keys like the 330i did and I will not be able to own a car purely from a hobby point of view again. Anything I buy now will be a compromise of running costs, looks and performance. A big part of that is how expensive cars have become to run. I'll always be a car enthusiast; enjoyment simply won't be the primary outcome.
It's the mid range shows that take the piss IMO. I can see the value in something like Silverstone F1 or the FoS even though they're very expensive. And there's plenty of free local gatherings, pub nights, The Motorist, that sort of thing.
But middle of the road shows where a family ticket is £60-80 to look round a field of cars and it's hard to see the value.
But middle of the road shows where a family ticket is £60-80 to look round a field of cars and it's hard to see the value.
R2Detour said:
I don't know but i am fed up of it and my love of cars is fast disappearing.
My fun car does about 3.5k a year ... I'm just back from a three week Euro tour that all in cost me about the same as a two week AI package holiday in some Med resort The fuel cost me about £700 ish
Money well spent imo
I daily a GR86. Obviously it was a brand new car but apart from a set of tyres it has cost me nothing to run in the last 3 years and comes with a 10 year warranty.
Insurance is £350 a year, Tax £180 a year. It does about 30mpg. Just fill it up and enjoy.
There are still plenty of cheap cars that you can still enjoy driving.
It is becoming harder and harder but the options are still out there.
Insurance is £350 a year, Tax £180 a year. It does about 30mpg. Just fill it up and enjoy.
There are still plenty of cheap cars that you can still enjoy driving.
It is becoming harder and harder but the options are still out there.
BricktopST205 said:
I daily a GR86. Obviously it was a brand new car but apart from a set of tyres it has cost me nothing to run in the last 3 years and comes with a 10 year warranty.
Insurance is £350 a year, Tax £180 a year. It does about 30mpg. Just fill it up and enjoy.
There are still plenty of cheap cars that you can still enjoy driving.
It is becoming harder and harder but the options are still out there.
Probably also still worth 80% of what you paid new?Insurance is £350 a year, Tax £180 a year. It does about 30mpg. Just fill it up and enjoy.
There are still plenty of cheap cars that you can still enjoy driving.
It is becoming harder and harder but the options are still out there.
In summertime I daily a 106 Rallye S2. I bought it in 2022 for 1100€. Ok i spent two years wages on rebuilding it, but the fact is you can still buy project drivers cars for very little money if you're patient, open minded and determined. As a lightweight car with a 1600 engine, it goes just fine (very well through the twisties), costs very little to tax and insure, and uses a third of the fuel my Volvo winter daily does.
I still see rough, useable ones for less than 8k.
So i don't agree with you, while theres not so much choice new these days for people like us, get handy with the spanners and build yourself the car you want, to do what you want.
I still see rough, useable ones for less than 8k.
So i don't agree with you, while theres not so much choice new these days for people like us, get handy with the spanners and build yourself the car you want, to do what you want.
it's not just the expense, it's the general anti car sentiment that's making me less interested. Relentless 'war on speed', cameras popping up seemingly everywhere, public that have been brainwashed into 'slowing down to save lives' (read doing 40mph everywhere with zero roadcraft) and getting super offended to downright dangerous when overtaken. Add in potholes that are big and plentiful enough to do far more than buckle a wheel and on top of what everyone else has described, things start to get pretty miserable.
I'm super fortunate that I've got a few cars, however the relative cost of keeping them has really increased in the last couple of years. I used to love going for an early morning blast, but I don't think I've done it a single time this year. I haven't been on any organised tours either...it just seems too much like hard work and unless you're up before 6am there's too much traffic around if you're not lucky enough to live somewhere really remote.
Rising costs are definitely hitting at every level, as supercars are now a quasi asset class (thanks to CGT exemption) and anything manual and/or remotely interesting seems to be going up by double or even triple digit percentages year on year. A standard 458 convertible is now over £200k, manual F430's £200k...these cars were half that only a year ago. If this continues, I've got no doubt that it'll keep filtering down and all sorts of enthusiast cars will suddenly become out of reach - even if you can afford to buy one it's likely that the tax will be incredibly punitive in another couple of years' time.
This is all quite depressing. The worst part is I can't really see where it ends...fuel is still going up and I'm actually surprised that this government haven't hit cars even harder given that they see everything else as fair game. Perhaps that's to come in October...
I'm super fortunate that I've got a few cars, however the relative cost of keeping them has really increased in the last couple of years. I used to love going for an early morning blast, but I don't think I've done it a single time this year. I haven't been on any organised tours either...it just seems too much like hard work and unless you're up before 6am there's too much traffic around if you're not lucky enough to live somewhere really remote.
Rising costs are definitely hitting at every level, as supercars are now a quasi asset class (thanks to CGT exemption) and anything manual and/or remotely interesting seems to be going up by double or even triple digit percentages year on year. A standard 458 convertible is now over £200k, manual F430's £200k...these cars were half that only a year ago. If this continues, I've got no doubt that it'll keep filtering down and all sorts of enthusiast cars will suddenly become out of reach - even if you can afford to buy one it's likely that the tax will be incredibly punitive in another couple of years' time.
This is all quite depressing. The worst part is I can't really see where it ends...fuel is still going up and I'm actually surprised that this government haven't hit cars even harder given that they see everything else as fair game. Perhaps that's to come in October...
Stu0302 said:
Agreed.
For me, the effect of gaining enjoyment from a car is more necessary than ever, but more unaffordable than ever. My wife passed away in July age 37 from cancer - we have a 5 year old son.
I did have a Japan Red BMW E90 LCI 330i Msport (with a manual box too) which I had put a lot of money into. Whilst my wife was alive, I did some maths and worked out that on a single income, I simply wouldn't have the disposable income or time to enjoy it. On top of everything you've mentioned, to me personally, older cars are more engaging. However, these older cars bring more headaches of storage (degradation of rubber, etc., during storage, or just general issues arising from not being used regularly).
I sold it last month, to me, it was my enthusiast car, but it was too expensive to justify. I have a BMW 530e now. It is a great car, cheaper to run, looks nice and I can get 20-25 miles pure electric range. It doesn't make me want to grab the keys like the 330i did and I will not be able to own a car purely from a hobby point of view again. Anything I buy now will be a compromise of running costs, looks and performance. A big part of that is how expensive cars have become to run. I'll always be a car enthusiast; enjoyment simply won't be the primary outcome.
Sorry to read this. All the best with your son and I hope you can find something cheaper to run that is still fun. A Swift or something maybe.For me, the effect of gaining enjoyment from a car is more necessary than ever, but more unaffordable than ever. My wife passed away in July age 37 from cancer - we have a 5 year old son.
I did have a Japan Red BMW E90 LCI 330i Msport (with a manual box too) which I had put a lot of money into. Whilst my wife was alive, I did some maths and worked out that on a single income, I simply wouldn't have the disposable income or time to enjoy it. On top of everything you've mentioned, to me personally, older cars are more engaging. However, these older cars bring more headaches of storage (degradation of rubber, etc., during storage, or just general issues arising from not being used regularly).
I sold it last month, to me, it was my enthusiast car, but it was too expensive to justify. I have a BMW 530e now. It is a great car, cheaper to run, looks nice and I can get 20-25 miles pure electric range. It doesn't make me want to grab the keys like the 330i did and I will not be able to own a car purely from a hobby point of view again. Anything I buy now will be a compromise of running costs, looks and performance. A big part of that is how expensive cars have become to run. I'll always be a car enthusiast; enjoyment simply won't be the primary outcome.
Stu0302 said:
Agreed.
For me, the effect of gaining enjoyment from a car is more necessary than ever, but more unaffordable than ever. My wife passed away in July age 37 from cancer - we have a 5 year old son.
I did have a Japan Red BMW E90 LCI 330i Msport (with a manual box too) which I had put a lot of money into. Whilst my wife was alive, I did some maths and worked out that on a single income, I simply wouldn't have the disposable income or time to enjoy it. On top of everything you've mentioned, to me personally, older cars are more engaging. However, these older cars bring more headaches of storage (degradation of rubber, etc., during storage, or just general issues arising from not being used regularly).
I sold it last month, to me, it was my enthusiast car, but it was too expensive to justify. I have a BMW 530e now. It is a great car, cheaper to run, looks nice and I can get 20-25 miles pure electric range. It doesn't make me want to grab the keys like the 330i did and I will not be able to own a car purely from a hobby point of view again. Anything I buy now will be a compromise of running costs, looks and performance. A big part of that is how expensive cars have become to run. I'll always be a car enthusiast; enjoyment simply won't be the primary outcome.
My condolences for your loss. For me, the effect of gaining enjoyment from a car is more necessary than ever, but more unaffordable than ever. My wife passed away in July age 37 from cancer - we have a 5 year old son.
I did have a Japan Red BMW E90 LCI 330i Msport (with a manual box too) which I had put a lot of money into. Whilst my wife was alive, I did some maths and worked out that on a single income, I simply wouldn't have the disposable income or time to enjoy it. On top of everything you've mentioned, to me personally, older cars are more engaging. However, these older cars bring more headaches of storage (degradation of rubber, etc., during storage, or just general issues arising from not being used regularly).
I sold it last month, to me, it was my enthusiast car, but it was too expensive to justify. I have a BMW 530e now. It is a great car, cheaper to run, looks nice and I can get 20-25 miles pure electric range. It doesn't make me want to grab the keys like the 330i did and I will not be able to own a car purely from a hobby point of view again. Anything I buy now will be a compromise of running costs, looks and performance. A big part of that is how expensive cars have become to run. I'll always be a car enthusiast; enjoyment simply won't be the primary outcome.
I can only empathise because i've not been in that horrific situation. The closest i have come is that my wife left me in 2019 and i became a single father having to start all over again. It is not the same at all. I agree with everything you've said. I hate modern things - let alone the ridiculous cost of them. But its got to the point that people view old cars (90's onwards) as being classics and values are getting just as stupid.
I can't own a car just for hobby as like you cost is prohibitive so i have always tried to balance that out say by owning Hot Hatches.I need 4 seats. I want to enjoy it but i need to do the shopping and the school / college runs. But. I can't replace it. Its a choice of running into the ground or taking out masses of debt in order to buy something equally as old with maybe a few miles less. Or extortionate debt to buy something new.
It's a terrible state of affairs!
I also have a GR86 but don't daily it as I have a Swift. But it's hard to enjoy that sometimes. It's a relatively cheap car to run but Toyota servicing is a bit extortionate for what they do. Always careful where I leave it as people do not care about other's property. Then every year the bills all go up. I think about selling sometimes but then I drive it again and think I could never.
We all know where it's going. Most of us will get priced out of owning anything interesting and forced into white goods. I'll hang on as long as I can. Most of it's drives are from South to North Wales for hikes. That's £70-£75 a go now just in Super Unleaded.
We all know where it's going. Most of us will get priced out of owning anything interesting and forced into white goods. I'll hang on as long as I can. Most of it's drives are from South to North Wales for hikes. That's £70-£75 a go now just in Super Unleaded.
Jake899 said:
In summertime I daily a 106 Rallye S2. I bought it in 2022 for 1100 . Ok i spent two years wages on rebuilding it, but the fact is you can still buy project drivers cars for very little money if you're patient, open minded and determined. As a lightweight car with a 1600 engine, it goes just fine (very well through the twisties), costs very little to tax and insure, and uses a third of the fuel my Volvo winter daily does.
I still see rough, useable ones for less than 8k.
So i don't agree with you, while theres not so much choice new these days for people like us, get handy with the spanners and build yourself the car you want, to do what you want.
So what you've said there is you have spent what - £50 to £70K rebuilding a £1000 Peugeot 106 rallye? Personally, i fail to see that as being affordable. A useable S2 is about £10-12K - for a 106....£10k, and its only going up. The more you use it the less it will be worth so you can't buy it and use it. Unless you've got it for a bargain price like you did and hats off to you. But most of them are snapped up by collectors and stored.I still see rough, useable ones for less than 8k.
So i don't agree with you, while theres not so much choice new these days for people like us, get handy with the spanners and build yourself the car you want, to do what you want.
So as you've said yourself there isn't much choice at all - because of all the reasons myself and others have stated.
Buying and building a project car arguably costs even more. So as long as you have the income to do so great. But its getting harder and harder to find good base cars that aren't overly priced. Its just not an affordable thing to do. Agree to disagree.
All that said - your choice is spot on, its a great car. I bet its great fun.
k the EU and their Regs.mwstewart said:
Sorry to read this. All the best with your son and I hope you can find something cheaper to run that is still fun. A Swift or something maybe.
Thank you 
I met my wife in 2007 (she was 18 at university and I was 22). I picked her up in my silver pre-face lift EP3 Civic Type R. I remember feeling so cool in that car and we had some incredible memories of evening drives together, going to various towns in it for days out etc. If I could afford one now, I'd have that in the garage. Simple enough to fix, not too complicated to run as it gets older (unlike my 530e which is technologically incredible but a future financial headache).
When I look at prices of EP3s now, even rougher ones are £4000, which is a trip to Disneyland or Finland (Lapland) for the little one. They are only going up now in value and there's no real modern equivalent. If fuel, insurance etc., was cheaper it may be more financially viable, unfortunately I can't see either of those changing.
Life is just a rip off now, every day out with family is just extortionate. I can't say I worry too much about the fuel costs but my other half's car will do 48-49mpg despite being a petrol and my daily diesel is similar.
But as a family of five, regardless of what we do it ends up being a costly day out, even if we aim for it to be cheap.
The only thing I will say is that we're out in a rural area and there are plenty of car related events. I'm 30 mins from Castle Coombe but we have a few local car clubs. Was a free local car show a couple of weeks back which only cost us some food for the kids. I think we're lucky with where we live though.
I think one thing I have come to realise is that having a great, fun, weekend car doesn't have to be super costly. I bought my BMW 650 convertible for about £8k. It's not as dynamic as a hot hatch but it's a fun drive, makes V8 noises and I can enjoy it with the kids and SORN it for winter.
But as a family of five, regardless of what we do it ends up being a costly day out, even if we aim for it to be cheap.
The only thing I will say is that we're out in a rural area and there are plenty of car related events. I'm 30 mins from Castle Coombe but we have a few local car clubs. Was a free local car show a couple of weeks back which only cost us some food for the kids. I think we're lucky with where we live though.
I think one thing I have come to realise is that having a great, fun, weekend car doesn't have to be super costly. I bought my BMW 650 convertible for about £8k. It's not as dynamic as a hot hatch but it's a fun drive, makes V8 noises and I can enjoy it with the kids and SORN it for winter.
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