Martyn's Law - changes to Bicester / impact on other events?
Discussion
Been reading the blurb from Bicester, and they're suggesting that Martyn's Law is the reason they've changed the format and now require everyone to park 'outside' the event itself and go through ticket-gates.
Noting, specifically, that there are no 'pass outs' given by Bicester - once you leave, you leave, which pretty much scuppers the very enjoyable past-time of wandering around the Bicester car-parks seeing rare gems, special stuff and generally nice cars that for whatever reason never made it into the main display areas. Given the increasing corporatisation of Bicester anyway over the last few years, does this become a turn-off for visitors to the Scramble?
...and whilst I get the logic*, I wonder where this leaves EVERY mid-scale and above car enthusiast event in the UK?
- Classic car meets where car clubs get infield display areas (Silverstone, Donington, Oulton Park)
- Marque / culture-specific events and festivals with a large following and sizeable display areas (Japfest, Dubfest, etc. etc.)
- large scale generalist meets (PHSS, Gaydon-hosted events, etc. where you could conceivably get 800+ people)
- non-car events where on-site public parking (inside the ticket barrier) has historically been the norm - Shuttleworth springs immediately to mind.
Are we all now f
ked, as enthusiasts wanting to go to big events? Have Bicester taken a very cautious approach to compliance? Am I mis-reading it?
* I personally wonder if it's overkill, but the Manchester Arena bombing is hard to argue with.
Noting, specifically, that there are no 'pass outs' given by Bicester - once you leave, you leave, which pretty much scuppers the very enjoyable past-time of wandering around the Bicester car-parks seeing rare gems, special stuff and generally nice cars that for whatever reason never made it into the main display areas. Given the increasing corporatisation of Bicester anyway over the last few years, does this become a turn-off for visitors to the Scramble?
...and whilst I get the logic*, I wonder where this leaves EVERY mid-scale and above car enthusiast event in the UK?
- Classic car meets where car clubs get infield display areas (Silverstone, Donington, Oulton Park)
- Marque / culture-specific events and festivals with a large following and sizeable display areas (Japfest, Dubfest, etc. etc.)
- large scale generalist meets (PHSS, Gaydon-hosted events, etc. where you could conceivably get 800+ people)
- non-car events where on-site public parking (inside the ticket barrier) has historically been the norm - Shuttleworth springs immediately to mind.
Are we all now f
ked, as enthusiasts wanting to go to big events? Have Bicester taken a very cautious approach to compliance? Am I mis-reading it?* I personally wonder if it's overkill, but the Manchester Arena bombing is hard to argue with.
Another step towards the corporate “money talks” displays unfortunately. I remember the days when you could just turn up and park anywhere within the buildings. Appreciate things change and evolve but the eclectic randomness is now long gone.
No more pre-90 parking either it appears, which at least grouped some interesting cars together from Jo-public. The ability for just visitors to be linked to the event is off the table it seems.
I must admit, when I read the recent email saying you can’t traverse between the event and the public car park seems a massive bind, and not really very helpful from an attendee perspective
Let’s see tomorrow how it pans out…
No more pre-90 parking either it appears, which at least grouped some interesting cars together from Jo-public. The ability for just visitors to be linked to the event is off the table it seems.
I must admit, when I read the recent email saying you can’t traverse between the event and the public car park seems a massive bind, and not really very helpful from an attendee perspective
Let’s see tomorrow how it pans out…
It was ok. I asked at the ‘gate’ if I could return to my car - the answer was ‘yes’ but ‘only the once’. I didn’t get the new car park layout - they created an outfield ‘golden ticket’ area, but it certainly wasn’t full.
The main car park was absolutely vast - some nice cars out there, but you had to go looking…
The infield area seemed to accommodate fewer cars than usual.
Still enjoyed it, though.
The main car park was absolutely vast - some nice cars out there, but you had to go looking…
The infield area seemed to accommodate fewer cars than usual.
Still enjoyed it, though.
I went back and forth as I pleased just by rescanning the ticket which I was pleased about as I had my sarnies in there and as it got hotter dumped by hoodie then some models I bought for my wee man.
I think PistonHeads in August was better though in terms of in the technical area display but the f40 made my day and the blue Konnesieg, plus the warplanes leaving at the end and flyby was special. The bring a trailer hangar had a couple of nice gems but was a bit flat.
I think PistonHeads in August was better though in terms of in the technical area display but the f40 made my day and the blue Konnesieg, plus the warplanes leaving at the end and flyby was special. The bring a trailer hangar had a couple of nice gems but was a bit flat.
This was certainly the weakest Scramble for me.
The new entry procedure certainly helped mitigate the queues to get in, so a plus mark for that. And the Blenheim/Spitfire flypast was outstanding.
But - would agree with others POVs. The “curation” led by the Bicester team leads to a weaker event, which is then multiplied by the increasing volume of commercial partners - most of whom aren’t site residents. Then there’s the proliferation of the 1771 brigade, turning up for the clout and then disappearing before lunch.
Fundamentally I don’t think Bicester themselves know what entry want the events to be, but know they can print money, so they stagger on regardless.
The new entry procedure certainly helped mitigate the queues to get in, so a plus mark for that. And the Blenheim/Spitfire flypast was outstanding.
But - would agree with others POVs. The “curation” led by the Bicester team leads to a weaker event, which is then multiplied by the increasing volume of commercial partners - most of whom aren’t site residents. Then there’s the proliferation of the 1771 brigade, turning up for the clout and then disappearing before lunch.
Fundamentally I don’t think Bicester themselves know what entry want the events to be, but know they can print money, so they stagger on regardless.
amstrange1 said:
Not sure I'll bother with the Scrambles next year - there were loads less cars in the main display than normal and the lack of pre-90s "curated car park" was a big shame.
R26 Lee said:
It seems to be getting less special every visit lately.
Such a shame, used to a great day out, now seems less and less cars each time
These are my thoughts too.Such a shame, used to a great day out, now seems less and less cars each time
- The infield felt quieter, both display cars and punters
- I felt like I'd seen half the display cars at least once this year already - I'm sure someone said that those working at Bicester can park their cars without needing a ballot or an invite. If it's going to become an event for paid-corporate displays and the Bicester organisers and their mates, then why are we paying £30 a pop?
- I can't be the only one thinking that giving Top Gear centre stage on the way in is completely contrary to the stated ethos of the event of "classic cars". And I think I've seen the Spierling (sp?) at pretty much every event (Bicester and elsewhere) for the past 2+ years.
- The change to the car parks was the biggest joke of the lot - there was some unbelievable stuff out there still (Carrera GT, gorgeous and outrageously wide 964 Turbo, violently-green Griff... ... ...) but buried amongst the (usually taller and larger) SUVs and crossovers and family hatchbacks that no-one actually wants to see.
And if all this change is because of Martyn's Law / "anti-terrorism" * , why were there a bunch of private cars driving around the infield while the public were there? Surely that defeats the object?
There were of course highlights there - there always are - and it was still a good event (albeit 'good' is damning the thing with faint praise vs how it used to be), but the 'value for money' equation is now becoming badly imbalanced in my eyes, and it now feels very much about the money not the event...
* The day that a bunch of blokes ogling random rare historic cars becomes a terrorist-worthy target, we may as well give up on this whole "society" business and go back to wearing animal skins and banging rocks together.
I gave up going last year. They used to park interesting cars on the grass by the control tower etc, then stopped that and just pushed everyone into the general car park, so there's no incentive to take anything interesting and park it with the euro boxes, so the interesting stuff was much reduced.
Then the cost keeps going up. There's plenty of other events to go to. I went to the Footman James morning meet at Gaydon, which was free. Lots of interesting stuff there
Then the cost keeps going up. There's plenty of other events to go to. I went to the Footman James morning meet at Gaydon, which was free. Lots of interesting stuff there
Drumroll said:
Martyn's Law is going to have a major impact on all events.
There's certainly a risk of that if organisations start to think that established "best practice" means taking measures that in reality are ridiculously overly cautious.When people are trying to figure out what "best practice" is, they inevitably end up getting very, very risk-averse advice. If they're finding this advice on some website, whoever wrote the website is going to be very wary of being open to accusations of irresponsibility ... so they'll gold-plated their advice. And if you are paying someone to advise you, they're biased towards telling you there's a problem to address in order to justify their own existence.
So you end up being more cautious than average and by doing so you are nudging the average itself towards being more cautious. Rinse and repeat, and suddenly everyone is behaving like risk-averse pillocks and risk-aversion is screwing up activities and making them expensive and painfully complicated to organise. Have you done a risk assessment of writing the risk assessment of writing the risk assessment?
I did Bicester 4 times this year - the 3 scrambles and pistonheads. My first time to them all.
Jan was for whatever the reason, the best (for me). It was freezing cold though, but the selection of cars, the 90s car park, the Group B rally tribute - a Veyron turning up full of road salt, JayKays Phantom , TWR tribute in the main hanger - it was a briliant first taste to the Scramble.
April was flat in comparison. Similar cars being displayed and generally i was expecting some seriously rare super things compared to January as the weather would welcome it - but id actually say Jan's cars on view were just 'better'. I remember walking the car parking fields again and just got sick to the death of seeing 911's. Inside the hanger was dreary, it was borderline empty.
Pistonheads was brill - a bit samey to Aprils scramble but for more modern machinery, it felt a lot smaller in terms of display size as i felt like not all the avenues were used fully. Hanger was used very well from memory and was pretty busy in comparison to Aprils scramble where it was just ghastly.
Yesterdays felt better than April's scramble, nice selection again, seemed a bit down on volume but there was still enough to see to make a decent day of it. i paid for membership so the parking was a bit odd this year for Scrambler members but it was a properly fantastic bunch of cars in there - quite glad we had a nose around it on the way in due to the change in entry but it felt quite poorly managed on entrance so i reckon you could walk back and forth if you were polite enough about it. The plane display was also a very cool touch.
avenues were decently littered with nice metal - hanger was an improvement this year with Bring a Trailer but i reckon it still needs a good few more in there. If i was to criticize, almost every event had the same food outlets - some variance would be nice.
Im going to give next year another punt - me, my bro in law and best mate have bought tickets for all 3 scrambles, but il probably give the PH one a miss. At the end of the day, yes its probably not comparable to early Scramble visit from back in the day - but for us in South Wales we get no show even remotely similiar to this, and the selling point for me is that i dont find Bicester overly rammed with people from over selling of tickets - which is the reason why i dont go to Goodwood FOS anymore.
if i was to criticize every change to every car show and constantly compare it to earlier visits (which i totally understand if you're a regular) i'd probably end up going to nothing at all.
Jan was for whatever the reason, the best (for me). It was freezing cold though, but the selection of cars, the 90s car park, the Group B rally tribute - a Veyron turning up full of road salt, JayKays Phantom , TWR tribute in the main hanger - it was a briliant first taste to the Scramble.
April was flat in comparison. Similar cars being displayed and generally i was expecting some seriously rare super things compared to January as the weather would welcome it - but id actually say Jan's cars on view were just 'better'. I remember walking the car parking fields again and just got sick to the death of seeing 911's. Inside the hanger was dreary, it was borderline empty.
Pistonheads was brill - a bit samey to Aprils scramble but for more modern machinery, it felt a lot smaller in terms of display size as i felt like not all the avenues were used fully. Hanger was used very well from memory and was pretty busy in comparison to Aprils scramble where it was just ghastly.
Yesterdays felt better than April's scramble, nice selection again, seemed a bit down on volume but there was still enough to see to make a decent day of it. i paid for membership so the parking was a bit odd this year for Scrambler members but it was a properly fantastic bunch of cars in there - quite glad we had a nose around it on the way in due to the change in entry but it felt quite poorly managed on entrance so i reckon you could walk back and forth if you were polite enough about it. The plane display was also a very cool touch.
avenues were decently littered with nice metal - hanger was an improvement this year with Bring a Trailer but i reckon it still needs a good few more in there. If i was to criticize, almost every event had the same food outlets - some variance would be nice.
Im going to give next year another punt - me, my bro in law and best mate have bought tickets for all 3 scrambles, but il probably give the PH one a miss. At the end of the day, yes its probably not comparable to early Scramble visit from back in the day - but for us in South Wales we get no show even remotely similiar to this, and the selling point for me is that i dont find Bicester overly rammed with people from over selling of tickets - which is the reason why i dont go to Goodwood FOS anymore.
if i was to criticize every change to every car show and constantly compare it to earlier visits (which i totally understand if you're a regular) i'd probably end up going to nothing at all.
Edited by irfan1712 on Monday 5th October 09:41
I was unable to go yesterday so I gave my tickets to a friend. Just seen that January tickets are now on sale, 2 adult tickets for yesterdays Scamble cost me £61.32, this has now increased to £82.22 for the two same tickets the January event. A 35% jump is ridiculous, and to me sadly it is no longer worth it.
I haven't been to Bicester for 4 years. Last time I parked my Lagonda inside by one of the hangers but it all seemed very similar to my previous visit and the one business I wanted to talk to, a magneto specialist, hadn't even bothered to open for the event. I remember the very early ones were free then it crept up to a fiver but thirty quid to look round seems expensive when you consider Brooklands 'Cool Flo' is a fiver (if you're into the '90s cars) and Goodwood breakfast meetings are free.
ATG said:
Drumroll said:
Martyn's Law is going to have a major impact on all events.
There's certainly a risk of that if organisations start to think that established "best practice" means taking measures that in reality are ridiculously overly cautious.When people are trying to figure out what "best practice" is, they inevitably end up getting very, very risk-averse advice. If they're finding this advice on some website, whoever wrote the website is going to be very wary of being open to accusations of irresponsibility ... so they'll gold-plated their advice. And if you are paying someone to advise you, they're biased towards telling you there's a problem to address in order to justify their own existence.
So you end up being more cautious than average and by doing so you are nudging the average itself towards being more cautious. Rinse and repeat, and suddenly everyone is behaving like risk-averse pillocks and risk-aversion is screwing up activities and making them expensive and painfully complicated to organise. Have you done a risk assessment of writing the risk assessment of writing the risk assessment?
Martyns law while being a good idea in theory is an utter arse as it will over time creep to include almost any organized event as some random nutter might attach it, as per Southport.
okv3 said:
I was unable to go yesterday so I gave my tickets to a friend. Just seen that January tickets are now on sale, 2 adult tickets for yesterdays Scamble cost me £61.32, this has now increased to £82.22 for the two same tickets the January event. A 35% jump is ridiculous, and to me sadly it is no longer worth it.
I just saw the same. Way to expensive and I'm out.Gassing Station | Events & Meetings | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff