+VAT

[AB]

A bit pissed off and sounding off really, as I know the easiest thing is to point it out and pay it without VAT...

We had some work done at home, some plaster mouldings, architrave type stuff and the the quote was £3,450. We said OK go ahead.

The service was terrible, they put everything up and it was cracked. We asked them to come back and replace it. They turned up with replacements, we asked to inspect in the van before they bothered and they were also broken. Finally we got it sorted and the installer arrived, huffing and puffing about how this needs to be correct as he wants his £2k from his introducer - the guy we had round to price up the job.

OK, fair enough, the fella is making £1,450 for coming round, quoting and then passing it on, we've all got to make a living.

Then his Whatsapp message lands with his bank details, his company name "XXX Consultant" and the final line £3,450+VAT = £4,140.

Firstly, it's not normal to quote a domestic job +VAT and certainly not without mentioning it. If he'd said +VAT we'd have said no thanks. If I'd been a B2B sale then perhaps I'd let it slide, if I could claim the VAT back.

So I look him up on Creditsafe in work, his company XXX Consultants Ltd was dissolved in 2024, no other Directorships.

Now I'm starting to get a bit pissed off the more I think about it so I've asked him for a VAT invoice made out to my business just to see what he comes up with. Wouldn't be putting it through the business but I'm assuming he's trying to add 20% on, expecting it would go unnoticed giving himself a nice £2,140 pay day for spending 20 mins in our house.

Tempted to await his reply and have a little chat with HMRC, assuming once I've put his VAT number (assuming he gives me one) in to the VAT number checker and finding it doesn't exist.

[StevieBee]

Regardless of whether he is VAT registered or not, in a B2C scenario it is a legal requirement to indicate on a quotations whether VAT is to be added to the final amount. Where it isn't, the law will almost always favour the customer in a dispute.

[v8notbrave]

Pay the lower amount surely? Leave the onus on him to go small claims

How was quote given? Verbally, email, WhatsApp? That could be key if it gets nasty

[AB]

Verbally then Whatsapp, no mention of the VAT until the final cost +VAT also sent by Whatsapp.

I have no intention of paying him the VAT.

I messaged him about it this morning and got this reply (copied and pasted);

bloke said:

Alex I am sitting on deck of a lovely ship in Croatia and return back to UK Tuesday next week.
Can you make the payment and I will do the invoice on my return.
Thanks.
Need to.pay Shane eventually now he's sorted your issues.
Many thanks

I have asked him for his VAT number.

[Sheepshanks]

Just pay him the net amount.

Builders / tradespeople always seem to talk net amounts though.

Some years ago a colleague had an extension start and didn't know the quote was ex-VAT until the first stage payment invoice arrived.

[MitchT]

This is one of my biggest piss boilers.

If I were ever famous enough to be on Room 101, +VAT would be one of my things. People who say so-and-so +VAT are top of my list of people I'd never tire of punching in the face.

If it's obvious that I'm coming to you as an individual human being who is going to have to pay VAT, as opposed to a VAT-registered entity, then tell me the VAT-inclusive price.

Tradesmen and car service departments in particular, I'm looking at you.

[pghstochaj]

I had this with a boiler service (for a much smaller amount). I just paid the quoted ex-VAT figure and he never contacted me again.

You're a consumer. You aren't expected to know the trader's VAT status, so the price quoted to you should be VAT-inclusive, whether that's because they're not VAT registered or because VAT is already included in the quoted price.

I am not sure why you are asking for his VAT number etc. You might end up legitimising his argument if he is VAT registered, or making the argument more complicated, rather than just focusing on "your price was not +VAT". His VAT status might be relevant if it proceeds to any legal dispute though.

[AB]

Because he had one company go into liquidation 2 years ago and he's using the name of another one that he recently dissolved. Yet he's trying to charge me VAT.

I was already a little perturbed by his cut when I found out but as I said we all have to make a living and I was happy (or rather unhappily accepting as I couldn't find anyone else) with his price.

[Sheepshanks]

AB said:

Because he had one company go into liquidation 2 years ago and he's using the name of another one that he recently dissolved.
.....

Wonder if his bank know that? Do the account details verify as a business?

[Nicetobenice]

Did you find them on checkatrade by any chance?

[AB]

Sheepshanks said:

AB said:

Because he had one company go into liquidation 2 years ago and he's using the name of another one that he recently dissolved.
.....

Wonder if his bank know that? Do the account details verify as a business?

I haven't tried verifying them tbh, I think I'm going to sit on all of the payment until he sends me an explanation.

I might just speak to the guy who fitted it and offer to settle with him.

[CaptainScarlet1967]

MitchT said:

This is one of my biggest piss boilers.

If I were ever famous enough to be on Room 101, +VAT would be one of my things. People who say so-and-so +VAT are top of my list of people I'd never tire of punching in the face.

If it's obvious that I'm coming to you as an individual human being who is going to have to pay VAT, as opposed to a VAT-registered entity, then tell me the VAT-inclusive price.

Tradesmen and car service departments in particular, I'm looking at you.

There is a garage still operating nearly 20 years after I used it that took the ambiguity a step further in a novel way.

Of course, I was at the receiving end of it, as were other customers over the telephone I could hear being spoken to whilst I was in the waiting lounge with Flavia hot drinks machine.

"How much is [a full service]?"

"£X with VAT."

Yep, "with VAT."

It turned out that meant 'with VAT to be added on top' rather than 'with VAT included'.

I obviously got stung as a uni student and paid a premium for a full service that didn't include a spark plug change. They did offer a courtesy drop-off and they vacuum cleaned the car interior and boot.

The garage name spelling is a play on the Christian name of the owner.

They (he) placed emphasis on the website as to how they were part of something I'd never heard of called the 'Good Garage Scheme', visible by the signage all over the premises.

Plenty of photos and homage to the owner were dotted around also.

To show he cared about women getting ripped off by unscrupulous garages, he offered a periodic session exclusively for women to come to be shown about things like tyre pressures and engine bays - wiper fluid, engine oil dipstick levels etc.

The images was as you'd expect - about half a dozen women looking at him trustingly whilst he appeared to be lecturing them in front of a raised bonnet. It's a nice gesture if you're going to be charged "with VAT".

[Ham_and_Jam]

As a VAT registered business I actually get fed up of trades wanting to be paid cash for quite hefty jobs. They try to make it sound like there doing me a favour by saying its 20% cheaper because they don t have to charge me the VAT.

Err no it really makes it much more expensive. The only one benefiting is them at my expense. They actually shift their tax liability to me.

[LooneyTunes]

AB said:

Verbally then Whatsapp, no mention of the VAT until the final cost +VAT also sent by Whatsapp.

I have no intention of paying him the VAT.

I messaged him about it this morning and got this reply (copied and pasted);

bloke said:

Alex I am sitting on deck of a lovely ship in Croatia and return back to UK Tuesday next week.
Can you make the payment and I will do the invoice on my return.
Thanks.
Need to.pay Shane eventually now he's sorted your issues.
Many thanks

I have asked him for his VAT number.

The tone of that message would piss me off. If he needs to pay Shane then he should do so… and then sort the invoice/get payment from you when all is in order.

[datelessregistrations]

LooneyTunes said:

AB said:

Verbally then Whatsapp, no mention of the VAT until the final cost +VAT also sent by Whatsapp.

I have no intention of paying him the VAT.

I messaged him about it this morning and got this reply (copied and pasted);

bloke said:

Alex I am sitting on deck of a lovely ship in Croatia and return back to UK Tuesday next week.
Can you make the payment and I will do the invoice on my return.
Thanks.
Need to.pay Shane eventually now he's sorted your issues.
Many thanks

I have asked him for his VAT number.

The tone of that message would piss me off. If he needs to pay Shane then he should do so and then sort the invoice/get payment from you when all is in order.

Get the invoice first.

If not you’ll never get it.

[Simpo Two]

AB said:

We had some work done at home, some plaster mouldings, architrave type stuff and the the quote was £3,450. We said OK go ahead

A quote is an exact sum for the work requested. If it didn't include VAT, or say 'VAT is chargeable at 20%', he can sing for it. His error. If he's VAT registered he'll have to pay VAT from the amount he quoted.

AB said:

So I look him up on Creditsafe in work, his company XXX Consultants Ltd was dissolved in 2024, no other Directorships.

VAT registration and company incorporation/directorship are two different things. He could now be a sole trader but still VAT registered.

But if the bill was £3,450 how can £2,000 of that be an 'introducer's fee'?

Nothing joins up. Wait for the invoice then pay the amount quoted. Weird that he wants the money before issuing an invoice; this bloke is a fool, a chancer or a conman.

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 5th October 22:32

[AB]

Simpo Two said:

AB said:

We had some work done at home, some plaster mouldings, architrave type stuff and the the quote was £3,450. We said OK go ahead

A quote is an exact sum for the work requested. If it didn't include VAT, or say 'VAT is chargeable at 20%', he can sing for it. His error. If he's VAT registered he'll have to pay VAT from the amount he quoted.

AB said:

So I look him up on Creditsafe in work, his company XXX Consultants Ltd was dissolved in 2024, no other Directorships.

VAT registration and company incorporation/directorship are two different things. He could now be a sole trader but still VAT registered.

But if the bill was £3,450 how can £2,000 of that be an 'introducer's fee'?

Nothing joins up. Wait for the invoice then pay the amount quoted. Weird that he wants the money before issuing an invoice; this bloke is a fool, a chancer or a conman.

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 5th October 22:32

I know he could be a sole trader and VAT registered. I know how it all works. My point is that all things point to him not being.

I know he owes the guy who made the mouldings and fitted them £2k as he let slip when he was installing them, he also gave his details and said absolutely no need to go through this fella again.

£3,450 +VAT is £4,140 now assuming he's not VAT registered he's trying to walk away with £2,140 for visiting my house for a few minutes. The figures aren't really relevant, I'll happily pay him the £3,450 but if he's going to kick up a fuss about the 20% then I would like to find out if he is even registered for VAT.

[blueg33]

LooneyTunes said:

The tone of that message would piss me off. If he needs to pay Shane then he should do so and then sort the invoice/get payment from you when all is in order.

I
Yup. Plus “pay when paid” is illegal in construction.

[Simpo Two]

AB said:

Then his Whatsapp message lands with his bank details, his company name "XXX Consultant" and the final line £3,450+VAT = £4,140...

So I look him up on Creditsafe in work, his company XXX Consultants Ltd was dissolved in 2024, no other Directorships.

'XXX Consultant' is not the same as 'XXX Consultant Ltd'. Is he pretending to be a company?

AB said:

I would like to find out if he is even registered for VAT.

Google AI says 'Look at the sole trader's official invoices, receipts, or website header and footer. You cannot search for a registration status by business name on official government databases'.

So you'll have to wait for the invoice - which is how things should work anyway.

[AB]

Yes, which is why I asked him for his VAT number so I could look it up online.

It's fallen on deaf ears thus far.