Forecourt Eye - £20
Discussion
We've received a letter dated 5th October, dating back to 18th July when we allegedly put £20 worth of fuel in the (new to us) car and drove away.
I'm not disputing I put the fuel in the car. I recall doing it and the still image is of me in the car. No issue here. However, I've never driven off without paying in 26 years of driving. I have no bank transactions from that day. Potentially I could have paid cash.
Due to the time delay, there is no CCTV to view. I'm left with the option to pay £20+35 admin fee, or allow it to progress to debt recovery etc unless I can provide proof. Who keeps a receipt for fuel from 3 months ago?!
I know I could just pay and make it go away but it doesn't sit well with me when I think I've paid it. It's the local fuel station, one we use often, and the mother in law works in the adjacent Tesco (and we both have in the past and know several of the staff etc)
Thoughts?
I'm not disputing I put the fuel in the car. I recall doing it and the still image is of me in the car. No issue here. However, I've never driven off without paying in 26 years of driving. I have no bank transactions from that day. Potentially I could have paid cash.
Due to the time delay, there is no CCTV to view. I'm left with the option to pay £20+35 admin fee, or allow it to progress to debt recovery etc unless I can provide proof. Who keeps a receipt for fuel from 3 months ago?!
I know I could just pay and make it go away but it doesn't sit well with me when I think I've paid it. It's the local fuel station, one we use often, and the mother in law works in the adjacent Tesco (and we both have in the past and know several of the staff etc)
Thoughts?
I had this recently where I fuelled up and went in, but only paid for a coffee and a croissant, which involves using the separate counter. Ended up with a letter through the post with a photo etc, as per yours.
Is it possible you might have done similar in that specific instance?
(This is particularly a problem for me, as I mostly drive an EV and hence simply not used to paying for 'fuel' as such, but do regularly stop at such places for food and drink)
Is it possible you might have done similar in that specific instance?
(This is particularly a problem for me, as I mostly drive an EV and hence simply not used to paying for 'fuel' as such, but do regularly stop at such places for food and drink)
I don't know how your allegation can be proved or disproved. I suppose it's one word against the other?
I got a similar fine from them a few years ago due to me using the BP app on my phone to pay whilst at the pump (the app unlocks the pump and automatically debits the payment) but I think my phone lost signal before payment could be taken. I couldn't find the transaction on my banking app so I accepted that I hadn't paid.
I phoned Forecourt Eye and explained, they said the app had been causing similar issues for people so I agreed to pay what I owed for the fuel and they reduced the fine by 50%, which I accepted. I found them very reasonable to deal wit on the phone, same with Parking Eye when I got a parking ticket in a supermarket car park.
Maybe phone Forecourt Eye and discuss it with them, You may well have to still pay the cost of the fuel but they might reduces the fine? I realise that if you think you have already paid then why should you pay again, but its a case of how far do you want to tho with it when proof of payment either way isn't available?
I got a similar fine from them a few years ago due to me using the BP app on my phone to pay whilst at the pump (the app unlocks the pump and automatically debits the payment) but I think my phone lost signal before payment could be taken. I couldn't find the transaction on my banking app so I accepted that I hadn't paid.
I phoned Forecourt Eye and explained, they said the app had been causing similar issues for people so I agreed to pay what I owed for the fuel and they reduced the fine by 50%, which I accepted. I found them very reasonable to deal wit on the phone, same with Parking Eye when I got a parking ticket in a supermarket car park.
Maybe phone Forecourt Eye and discuss it with them, You may well have to still pay the cost of the fuel but they might reduces the fine? I realise that if you think you have already paid then why should you pay again, but its a case of how far do you want to tho with it when proof of payment either way isn't available?
I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt and pay the money. It's possible a new car might have been distracting enough to disrupt train of thought and forget to pay, particularly if you've no bank record from that day.
Then I'd make a mental note to self to make sure I always pay by card and keep the receipt!
Then I'd make a mental note to self to make sure I always pay by card and keep the receipt!
silentbrown said:
Potentially, but is that something you often do? I haven't paid cash for fuel in living memory.
Also does anyone actually get receipts from filling up unless they need it for business?
This. I couldn't tell you when I last used cash full stop.Also does anyone actually get receipts from filling up unless they need it for business?
If you are confident you paid cash then insist on the CCTV. Perfectly possible it didn't get rung through
Thanks for the feedback so far. We do often have cash knocking around, wife does some cleaning for people. It was her car so very possible that I grabbed the cash out the tin for it.
I did speak with them on the phone, wasn't very reasonable. Said I could appeal via email but wouldn't be successful without a receipt.
I'm inclined to push it really, they surely need to prove I didn't pay rather than the other way round? Only CCTV will achieve this, which they said they don't have
I did speak with them on the phone, wasn't very reasonable. Said I could appeal via email but wouldn't be successful without a receipt.
I'm inclined to push it really, they surely need to prove I didn't pay rather than the other way round? Only CCTV will achieve this, which they said they don't have
Its Just Adz said:
Surely it's not up to you to prove you paid, but for them to prove you didn't?
And with no CCTV showing you driving away, that may be difficult.
I would call and say I paid cash and won't entertain it any further.
IANAL, but this is a civil case so it would be decided on balance of probabilities. If the garage's receipt system shows a balance at the end of the day, with only one transaction not paid?And with no CCTV showing you driving away, that may be difficult.
I would call and say I paid cash and won't entertain it any further.
They will have till data.
I think their IT probably reconciles pump data against till data?
When fuel is drawn from the pump, the pump amount goes to the tills, you say 'pump number 7',they push a button with 7 on it, the fuel charge goes to the till to be added to any other purchases. So they perhaps have a list at the end of the data of fuel taken and not paid for. Along with time of fuel taken and photos of the cars which took it.
Use a card in future.
It could be staff theft of course, person at till pockets £20. But there is often CCTV against that.
So fill it up, don't put a tenner in or round numbers.
I think their IT probably reconciles pump data against till data?
When fuel is drawn from the pump, the pump amount goes to the tills, you say 'pump number 7',they push a button with 7 on it, the fuel charge goes to the till to be added to any other purchases. So they perhaps have a list at the end of the data of fuel taken and not paid for. Along with time of fuel taken and photos of the cars which took it.
Use a card in future.
It could be staff theft of course, person at till pockets £20. But there is often CCTV against that.
So fill it up, don't put a tenner in or round numbers.
Has anyone ever successfully managed to stop a pump exactly on £.00 since about 1998? Or is it a pump where you set it for £20 and that's exactly what it puts in?
Are there "pay at pump" and "pay inside" buttons? How do you usually do it if you're a regular there?
What are you suggesting happened? That you went in and handed the cashier a £20 note which they put in their own pocket? Petrol station cash control would easily pick up any cashier who was doing that, it's the oldest employee rip-off in the book and retail businesses are alive to it.
If you say, "I went in and paid cash" how are they going to prove you didn't, without any CCTV? Presumably they're left with a record of transactions at that time showing no £20 cash receipt and not knowing whether the employee might have taken it.
Are there "pay at pump" and "pay inside" buttons? How do you usually do it if you're a regular there?
What are you suggesting happened? That you went in and handed the cashier a £20 note which they put in their own pocket? Petrol station cash control would easily pick up any cashier who was doing that, it's the oldest employee rip-off in the book and retail businesses are alive to it.
If you say, "I went in and paid cash" how are they going to prove you didn't, without any CCTV? Presumably they're left with a record of transactions at that time showing no £20 cash receipt and not knowing whether the employee might have taken it.
silentbrown said:
S100HP said:
Potentially I could have paid cash.
Potentially, but is that something you often do? I haven't paid cash for fuel in living memory. Also does anyone actually get receipts from filling up unless they need it for business?
S100HP said:
Thanks for the feedback so far. We do often have cash knocking around, wife does some cleaning for people. It was her car so very possible that I grabbed the cash out the tin for it.
I did speak with them on the phone, wasn't very reasonable. Said I could appeal via email but wouldn't be successful without a receipt.
I'm inclined to push it really, they surely need to prove I didn't pay rather than the other way round? Only CCTV will achieve this, which they said they don't have
Does the wife keep a record of the cash she is paid & paid out?I did speak with them on the phone, wasn't very reasonable. Said I could appeal via email but wouldn't be successful without a receipt.
I'm inclined to push it really, they surely need to prove I didn't pay rather than the other way round? Only CCTV will achieve this, which they said they don't have
S100HP said:
We've received a letter dated 5th October, dating back to 18th July when we allegedly put £20 worth of fuel in the (new to us) car and drove away.
I'm not disputing I put the fuel in the car. I recall doing it and the still image is of me in the car. No issue here. However, I've never driven off without paying in 26 years of driving. I have no bank transactions from that day. Potentially I could have paid cash.
Due to the time delay, there is no CCTV to view. I'm left with the option to pay £20+35 admin fee, or allow it to progress to debt recovery etc unless I can provide proof. Who keeps a receipt for fuel from 3 months ago?!
I know I could just pay and make it go away but it doesn't sit well with me when I think I've paid it. It's the local fuel station, one we use often, and the mother in law works in the adjacent Tesco (and we both have in the past and know several of the staff etc)
Thoughts?
I can't remember the last time I paid cash for fuelI'm not disputing I put the fuel in the car. I recall doing it and the still image is of me in the car. No issue here. However, I've never driven off without paying in 26 years of driving. I have no bank transactions from that day. Potentially I could have paid cash.
Due to the time delay, there is no CCTV to view. I'm left with the option to pay £20+35 admin fee, or allow it to progress to debt recovery etc unless I can provide proof. Who keeps a receipt for fuel from 3 months ago?!
I know I could just pay and make it go away but it doesn't sit well with me when I think I've paid it. It's the local fuel station, one we use often, and the mother in law works in the adjacent Tesco (and we both have in the past and know several of the staff etc)
Thoughts?
pavarotti1980 said:
Super Sonic said:
You say "it's possible" you paid cash? You don't actually know?
What did you pay for on the 18th July? How much was it and whereabouts.....I cant even remember what I bought last week never mind 12 weeks ago
The op says it's possible he paid cash, not it's probable, so he doesn't know if he did or not. He knows he didn't pay by card, but doesn't know if he paid by cash. Therefore he doesn't know whether he paid or not, and has received a letter saying he hasn't. What's the most likely explanation?
There has been some discussion on various forums of how enforceable these "admin fees" are and whether they can be enforced on the Registered Keepers. Forecourt Eye claim that these fees are not the same as those issued by Private Parking Companies, yet they still seek to enforce them on hundreds of Leasing companies who are fed up with them. If I am a leasing company, how am I responsible for a driver stealing fuel?
Park in a properly regulated car park and there are numerous large signs, maybe payment machines etc to seek your compliance/formation of a contract.
Visit a forecourt and signs aren't always visible, some might have stickers that have half peeled off.
The simple fact is that the Forecourt Eye style enforcement has been started by a bunch of illiterate chancers who think everything they come up with is compliant with the law.
Park in a properly regulated car park and there are numerous large signs, maybe payment machines etc to seek your compliance/formation of a contract.
Visit a forecourt and signs aren't always visible, some might have stickers that have half peeled off.
The simple fact is that the Forecourt Eye style enforcement has been started by a bunch of illiterate chancers who think everything they come up with is compliant with the law.
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