Training to improve performance

[dave123456]

I’m trying to work out if an investment of my time is worth it..

I used to race mountain bikes to a pretty high standard in the 90s. Stopped when I left uni and played football, not sure why, guess it’s what my friends were doing.

Since the late 90s I’ve dabbled with bikes, always had one, in 2019 I got a decent road bike and started going for rides, nothing structured just out and back, usually 15-30 miles and c18-19mph.

This year I decided to enter some gravel races, and I’ll admit I was more than a little underwhelmed with my performances! I move up to the 50+ next year and my plan is to put my back into a winter training plan and see how I get on. Current FTP is around 250w at c78kg.

I think 75kg is doable, I’ve always been either side of 12 stone my whole life at around 6ft tall, so unlikely to drop more than that.

My question is, based on someone who cycled very competitively 30 years ago, has always kept pretty fit but has only recently started again in the last 12-18 months properly, what have others seen from a proper off season of training, and would increasing my FTP to say 300 watts be achievable? Or am I wasting my time and should just stick to enjoying cycling?

TIA

[Dannbodge]

It's a difficult question as it comes down to your physiology more than anything.

I never had much of a bump over winter until I started using trainerroad (properly commiting to a winter plan)
Two years ago i bumped up from 266w to 287w and this last year it now suggests my FTP is over 300w.

So yes it is doable, in one winter maybe not but I can't predict how you'd respond to the training etc.

[dave123456]

Is trainerroad an online platform? I’ve just built my own based on my knowledge and experience. Using zwift to facilitate.

[Dannbodge]

dave123456 said:

Is trainerroad an online platform? I ve just built my own based on my knowledge and experience. Using zwift to facilitate.

Yeah, it's an online training platform. You can set up plans based on what you want to achieve, how long you have and what time you have.
It is not run through AI and evaluates your rides and intervals and changes the intensity or what workout you have.

It's by far the best training platform and it integrates with zwift too.

[Giantt]

I'm a bit older,seems to me the older also get super competitive,with time and better knowledge of training these days,me I just cycle for fun,chasing numbers ,FTP etc isn't for me

[dave123456]

I’m just trying to work out if, at 49, I’m past the point of being able to deliver improvements efficiently.

[defblade]

You're not quite there, but Fast After 50 might give you some good pointers on what is/isn't likely to be achievable, and how to get there.

It told me I'm not interested enough in improving my pace to do stuff off the bike, so I've settled for a gentle decline from cat D

[oddman]

defblade said:

You're not quite there, but Fast After 50 might give you some good pointers on what is/isn't likely to be achievable, and how to get there.

Agree with this. Used this book together with his triathlon training bible as the basis for triathlon training. I managed to increase FTP by about 15% by structured training at age 50. The bulk of my FTP type training was relatively brief custom indoor sessions on Zwift (< 1 hour including generous warm up and cool down) focussing on VO2 max and LT intervals in periodised blocks of training. I was surprised how well I responded and my cycle training was 'diluted' by the requirement to get in swims and challenging runs as well.

I think you're spot on aiming for about 4w/kg to be competitive in gravel type events. A lot depends on how much potential you have already realised with your unstructured training but I don't think 300w is ridiculous

If I were you, I'd sign up for a couple of target events and then work backwards with some secondary events earlier in the year. You've got a lot of time over winter. Fitness and motivation rarely stay in one place. If you target LT now you may peak too soon. You may have significant unrealised gains in training strength and mobility and position on the bike. I find strength work tedious and fatiguing so can only manage it when the bike and running is relatively on tickover. Winter is a good time for this

For longer gravel type events, metabolic fitness ie. z2 capacity is really important. The structure of the training depends on the physiological demands of the target event. Less specific first and more specific as you get closer to the event. A 200k flattish gravel event is different from a Fred Whitton type event. The first requires maximum z2 capacity to sustain high output over many hours. The second is a series of z4 efforts interspersed with recovery.

Another area where you may have unrealised potential is diet, fuelling strategies and recovery. This is where sticking to a plan is really helpful as it can be tempting to put in an extra session or punish your friends on a group ride when you should be resting or doing a recovery effort.

[JEA1K]

dave123456 said:

I m just trying to work out if, at 49, I m past the point of being able to deliver improvements efficiently.

You certainly aren't, trust me. Whilst we all have a ceiling, I would say with your background, you will have a decent ceiling and will see some significant gains with structured training.

For context, I'm 51 and 76kg's and have only been road racing and crit racing since my late 30's in the most with much younger riders. I consider myself lucky being able to ride 12-14 hours a week which gives me both the social aspects of riding with my mates as well ad being able to train.

At this age, its really up to you as to how much training you want to commit to ... with real focus, 6-8 hours a week can see big gains. As others have mentioned, TrainerRoad is a very good training programme (other than using a coach, this is my point of reference) which will give you the structure you need an allow you to see your progress. In simple terms, generally you'd have 2-3 hard sessions a week with the rest being v easy ... z1/z2. The main point is that it provide you with accountability for your training.

With regards to winter training, my advice is to not overdo it. Spending long days in cold wet weather can really affect your moral ... make sure you have a good indoor set up, get your head around indoor sessions, keep them short and hard and by spring, when the weather turns, you'll have yourself in a great position to increase your endurance. I would add a gym day into your week, possibly two during winter ... high weight, short reps ... deadlifts, squats etc. Rest and recovery are something you need to take more seriously the older you get ... overloading (unless its short term) everything us a sure fire way to burn out the body and mind.

[MaxFromage]

I'd echo all the comments here- plenty of potential.

I'm nearly 50 and started cycling properly a few years ago. I'm at about 250-260w and 73kg at the moment. My understanding is 4w/kg is attainable for most people reading information from Friel and others.

I use TrainerRoad via Zwift in the winter and found it really good to get myself initially from around 180w to 250w. I stalled a bit the end of last year despite training. Then this year I joined a cycling club and have been hanging onto faster riders all summer. My durability has probably doubled amongst other things such as Z2 power.

For me, I think TrainerRoad was just too conservative on load. I recover pretty quickly. Good sleep, food and not drinking probably helps. I haven't decided how I'm going to train this winter, but have 10 days out in Mallorca next week.

I would also recommend strength training. IMO it makes a huge difference in being able to hold power.

[Robertb]

dave123456 said:

Is trainerroad an online platform? I ve just built my own based on my knowledge and experience. Using zwift to facilitate.

Some of the Zwift plans and sessions are good. I can recommend the TT Tuneup which gets very demanding at times.

I tend to spread it out a bit more as it’s honestly too much practically every day.

Alternatively, take a look at Mywhoosh which is free and has some decent looking plans.

[dave123456]

I tend to do 3 or 4 hard zwift workouts Monday to Thursday and then 2 longer zone 2 rides over the weekend. Maybe I should have a little rest in the week between sessions.

I’ve ordered Fast after Fifty.

[johnpsanderson]

Intervals.icu is worth a look if, like me, you don’t want to fork out for TrainerRoad. You can easily schedule specific sessions which can then load through automatically into Zwift/etc.

I’m currently using ChatGPT to prescribe me a training programme; it’s roughly what I would have set for myself in previous years - but it is more nuanced in terms of the sessions than I would have constructed in past years, using Joe Friel.

I’m only 3 weeks in; but it feels both harder (on the interval sessions) and easier (on the endurance days) which is interesting… Re-testing FTP after 8 weeks will be crunch time I guess!

[mikecassie]

dave123456 said:

I m just trying to work out if, at 49, I m past the point of being able to deliver improvements efficiently.

I'd say yes you can get some improvements by more focused training. How much will depend on your physiology and then how much time and effort you are able to invest in the training.
I'm north of 50 now and keep the training going all year round, I find the drop off is faster now than it was before so recovering any speed/power takes more time and effort. One thing I don't kid myself about is that I could've been pro, that was never going to happen.