GT4RS OPC repair dispute
Discussion
My 74 plate GT4RS is at my local Porsche centre, it has just has an entirely new PDK gearbox fitted under warranty after I experienced a gearbox fault where it refused to select 2 4 6 gears.
Anyway I have been emailed to say the gearbox has been fitted but there is now a problem of coolant leaking from the radiator so the system can not be bled. I have been told it was caused by a stone. I know the radiator is protected by a grill but if that has happened, OK.
The issue is I have never experienced any coolant leaks on my garage floor, I've owned the car from new, it has very low mileage and I have never experienced any low coolant warning messages either. I expected a simple warranty repair and now I have been told it will cost £1517.63 to fit a new radiator. I was told a technician had pulled the stone out which caused coolant to gush out once under pressure. It doesn't sound right to me.
I took a photo of the mileage when I dropped it off and it has been driven 4 miles since it has been with the OPC over the last 4 weeks. They initially tried to replace the mechatronic part in the PDK and tested it before realising it needed a brand new box. I have no idea how or when a stone has damaged the radiator but as I see it they can not prove that it didn't happen under their watch, during that 4 miles so why should I pay for the repair. I'm currently waiting for them to get back to me with a response after I questioning it.
Anyway I have been emailed to say the gearbox has been fitted but there is now a problem of coolant leaking from the radiator so the system can not be bled. I have been told it was caused by a stone. I know the radiator is protected by a grill but if that has happened, OK.
The issue is I have never experienced any coolant leaks on my garage floor, I've owned the car from new, it has very low mileage and I have never experienced any low coolant warning messages either. I expected a simple warranty repair and now I have been told it will cost £1517.63 to fit a new radiator. I was told a technician had pulled the stone out which caused coolant to gush out once under pressure. It doesn't sound right to me.
I took a photo of the mileage when I dropped it off and it has been driven 4 miles since it has been with the OPC over the last 4 weeks. They initially tried to replace the mechatronic part in the PDK and tested it before realising it needed a brand new box. I have no idea how or when a stone has damaged the radiator but as I see it they can not prove that it didn't happen under their watch, during that 4 miles so why should I pay for the repair. I'm currently waiting for them to get back to me with a response after I questioning it.
I don't see how you can also disprove it wasn't already there, just because the car has grills doesn't mean a small stone has gotten through.
It's a tough one as it's your word against there's.
Personally, I'd want to see the affected radiator and even keep if if you're buying a new one, then you'll know that they're just not trying to stiff you on the reduce labour rate for the warranty repair and claw back the difference through a "fake" repair.
It's a tough one as it's your word against there's.
Personally, I'd want to see the affected radiator and even keep if if you're buying a new one, then you'll know that they're just not trying to stiff you on the reduce labour rate for the warranty repair and claw back the difference through a "fake" repair.
There'll be some back and forth and eventually they'll offer a "goodwill payment" of about half. They'll act as though they are doing you a favour, you'll be left with a sour taste...
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Boring alert! Whenever you car goes into the dealer you need to take a load of photos with sufficient detail to show damage/scratches etc. All bodywork, wheels, tyres, frunk area inc under the scuttle cover, interior to include instruments and car notification messages.
This will be something like 30 photos on their premises. It's extremely dull to do but is your only defence against the sort of issue above.
My car sustained some sort of damage/mistreatment on each of 4 visits to the dealer which would have been unprovable without the above.
You also need to do a thorough inspection on collection. A bit embarrassing walking around your car with a torch for 5-10 minutes, but once you drive it... it's your fault not theirs.
__________________________________
Boring alert! Whenever you car goes into the dealer you need to take a load of photos with sufficient detail to show damage/scratches etc. All bodywork, wheels, tyres, frunk area inc under the scuttle cover, interior to include instruments and car notification messages.
This will be something like 30 photos on their premises. It's extremely dull to do but is your only defence against the sort of issue above.
My car sustained some sort of damage/mistreatment on each of 4 visits to the dealer which would have been unprovable without the above.
You also need to do a thorough inspection on collection. A bit embarrassing walking around your car with a torch for 5-10 minutes, but once you drive it... it's your fault not theirs.
M11rph said:
My car sustained some sort of damage/mistreatment on each of 4 visits to the dealer which would have been unprovable without the above.
You also need to do a thorough inspection on collection. A bit embarrassing walking around your car with a torch for 5-10 minutes, but once you drive it... it's your fault not theirs.
Good advice. My old Aston came back from service in Leeds with a nice big scratch on the driver’s door but was impossible to prove it wasn’t there prior. You also need to do a thorough inspection on collection. A bit embarrassing walking around your car with a torch for 5-10 minutes, but once you drive it... it's your fault not theirs.
How much does a gearbox cost? At least £20k plus the fitting, so nearer £25k. You’ve paid zilch.
It needs a new radiator - the same company that has fixed your car are claiming that it is likely something you’ve picked up. You think they’ve done it because they’ve driven the car for 4 miles.
If you can afford it, pay it, thank them for their efforts and keep the relationship cordial and friendly. Or you can argue the toss, get head office involved, end up paying half and ruining a relationship.
Your car, your cash, your decision. I’d be grateful, but we’re not all the same.
It needs a new radiator - the same company that has fixed your car are claiming that it is likely something you’ve picked up. You think they’ve done it because they’ve driven the car for 4 miles.
If you can afford it, pay it, thank them for their efforts and keep the relationship cordial and friendly. Or you can argue the toss, get head office involved, end up paying half and ruining a relationship.
Your car, your cash, your decision. I’d be grateful, but we’re not all the same.
Freakuk said:
I don't see how you can also disprove it wasn't already there, just because the car has grills doesn't mean a small stone has gotten through.
It's a tough one as it's your word against there's.
Personally, I'd want to see the affected radiator and even keep if if you're buying a new one, then you'll know that they're just not trying to stiff you on the reduce labour rate for the warranty repair and claw back the difference through a "fake" repair.
Yes I can not prove the fault wasn't already there either. I have driven 2500 miles compared to their 4 miles but my response to them was if it has been driven anything over 500m then there is no way they can 100% claim the damage wasn't caused during testing. I don't know if there is any such thing as goodwill in circumstances like these or they just expect customers to pay up. I will certainly never use them again to buy a car or for servicing if this isn't resolved.It's a tough one as it's your word against there's.
Personally, I'd want to see the affected radiator and even keep if if you're buying a new one, then you'll know that they're just not trying to stiff you on the reduce labour rate for the warranty repair and claw back the difference through a "fake" repair.
maz8062 said:
How much does a gearbox cost? At least £20k plus the fitting, so nearer £25k. You ve paid zilch.
It needs a new radiator - the same company that has fixed your car are claiming that it is likely something you ve picked up. You think they ve done it because they ve driven the car for 4 miles.
If you can afford it, pay it, thank them for their efforts and keep the relationship cordial and friendly. Or you can argue the toss, get head office involved, end up paying half and ruining a relationship.
Your car, your cash, your decision. I d be grateful, but we re not all the same.
Thanks thats one way of looking at it and maybe it's the right way of going about it. It needs a new radiator - the same company that has fixed your car are claiming that it is likely something you ve picked up. You think they ve done it because they ve driven the car for 4 miles.
If you can afford it, pay it, thank them for their efforts and keep the relationship cordial and friendly. Or you can argue the toss, get head office involved, end up paying half and ruining a relationship.
Your car, your cash, your decision. I d be grateful, but we re not all the same.
Grateful isn't how I feel, I'm more surprised a gearbox has failed after less than 2 years/2500 miles.
I will see what they say, hopefully will know tomorrow and report back.
Did they pick-up the stone being there during an overall inspection, if not why would they be anywhere near the radiators, the gearbox is at the opposite end of the car.
As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
Clad-Hach said:
Did they pick-up the stone being there during an overall inspection, if not why would they be anywhere near the radiators, the gearbox is at the opposite end of the car.
As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
The leak caused by a stone was only mentioned last weei after the gearbox had been fitted and it needed to be road tested. Nothing was mentioned or spotted earlier 2/3 weeks ago when the car was first up in the air getting a replacement mechatronic unit fitted. As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
I was told a technician discovered a stone and pulled it out which caused the issue of a major leak 'coolant gushing out' when being pressurised. So not sure if pipes have had to be disconnected while fitting the gearbox and then the issue was discovered or it is simply just a stone being found and it is nothing to do with the gearbox replacement. I haven't seen the car for a month but not noticed any frontal damage to the grill or experienced any leaks or pools of coolant on the garage floor prior.
Mezgerking said:
Thanks thats one way of looking at it and maybe it's the right way of going about it.
Grateful isn't how I feel, I'm more surprised a gearbox has failed after less than 2 years/2500 miles.
I will see what they say, hopefully will know tomorrow and report back.
I know of a 992 3RS which has the same failure as yours within a few hundred miles, took months of back and to with the OPC for them to actually replace the gearbox.Grateful isn't how I feel, I'm more surprised a gearbox has failed after less than 2 years/2500 miles.
I will see what they say, hopefully will know tomorrow and report back.
I recall only last week there was someone on PH with a similar issue and low miles, I commented on that with a similar reply relating to the 3RS.
It does happen.
If a stone had put a hole in the rad with in your time driving it,i would say it would have been leaking before,there is some serious pressure in the coolant system.They would have disconnected some coolant hoses i suspect,of which they refill the system by vacume,which can also find a leak issue,rubber pipes go flat during this process.
The rads porsche fit are not great cores and some can fail from new,probably now made in china.
Surely the car should be returned in the state you delivered it,ie not leaking coolant.
Im with you 2500 miles and a new box required,sadly they are not what they used to be,good luck.
The rads porsche fit are not great cores and some can fail from new,probably now made in china.
Surely the car should be returned in the state you delivered it,ie not leaking coolant.
Im with you 2500 miles and a new box required,sadly they are not what they used to be,good luck.
Mezgerking said:
Update - the centre has now agreed to fully cover the cost of replacing the radiator which makes total sense and should have happened in the first place.
Anyone with a PDK considering an extended warranty, it is essential.
Good to hear that they came to their senses - why they persist with this type of fu%kery is beyond me OPC's shouldn't be acting like back street garages.Anyone with a PDK considering an extended warranty, it is essential.
Mezgerking said:
Clad-Hach said:
Did they pick-up the stone being there during an overall inspection, if not why would they be anywhere near the radiators, the gearbox is at the opposite end of the car.
As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
The leak caused by a stone was only mentioned last weei after the gearbox had been fitted and it needed to be road tested. Nothing was mentioned or spotted earlier 2/3 weeks ago when the car was first up in the air getting a replacement mechatronic unit fitted. As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
I was told a technician discovered a stone and pulled it out which caused the issue of a major leak 'coolant gushing out' when being pressurised. So not sure if pipes have had to be disconnected while fitting the gearbox and then the issue was discovered or it is simply just a stone being found and it is nothing to do with the gearbox replacement. I haven't seen the car for a month but not noticed any frontal damage to the grill or experienced any leaks or pools of coolant on the garage floor prior.
They said the fluid was gushing out, that would indicate a significant leak more like a failure than weeping core.
I recently had all the hoses and pipes replaced on my 987 Cayman due to a leak from one of the connections, I lived with that leak for over a year and you could easily see a small pool of coolant on the garage floor...so a gush would be a flood I would think.
churchie2856 said:
Which coolant radiator had the stone in it, I understand there to be three on a GT4RS?
Surely a rad is no more than a grand and a few hours even at an OPC?!
The reason I asked this was because to the best of my knowledge the GT4RS has three rads in the front.Surely a rad is no more than a grand and a few hours even at an OPC?!
A centre rad, and one either side (L+R) behind the AC condensers. If OPC were saying a stone punctured either the L or R rad, then it begs the how, since the AC condenser was ahead of it (and the grille).
Nurburgsingh said:
Good to hear that they came to their senses - why they persist with this type of fu%kery is beyond me OPC's shouldn't be acting like back street garages.
Agreed, i'm all for maintaining a relationship but that is a two-way road IMHO.I (wrongly) thought this bullsh!tery was over with main dealers but when i very recently had the car in for a check-up and noticed they removed the SD card from the fitcam, this led to an awkward discussion with them.
Clad-Hach said:
Mezgerking said:
Clad-Hach said:
Did they pick-up the stone being there during an overall inspection, if not why would they be anywhere near the radiators, the gearbox is at the opposite end of the car.
As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
The leak caused by a stone was only mentioned last weei after the gearbox had been fitted and it needed to be road tested. Nothing was mentioned or spotted earlier 2/3 weeks ago when the car was first up in the air getting a replacement mechatronic unit fitted. As has been said I'd get the radiator off them and have a look, it would need to be a decent size stone going at a decent lick to get through a mesh grill then crack a radiator core.
The front is the only way into the radiator so there must also be a hole in the grill.
I was told a technician discovered a stone and pulled it out which caused the issue of a major leak 'coolant gushing out' when being pressurised. So not sure if pipes have had to be disconnected while fitting the gearbox and then the issue was discovered or it is simply just a stone being found and it is nothing to do with the gearbox replacement. I haven't seen the car for a month but not noticed any frontal damage to the grill or experienced any leaks or pools of coolant on the garage floor prior.
They said the fluid was gushing out, that would indicate a significant leak more like a failure than weeping core.
I recently had all the hoses and pipes replaced on my 987 Cayman due to a leak from one of the connections, I lived with that leak for over a year and you could easily see a small pool of coolant on the garage floor...so a gush would be a flood I would think.
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