Investment car?
Discussion
Been thinking about this recently, after a bit of a flippant comment I made a while back to a friend.
Have I missed the boat generally - are we due an impending crash, price-wise?
Budget would be decent-ish and could get me into some nice cars (of which I have a kind of ‘long list’) but not enormous.
A couple of them, I think I’ve missed the boat as it were but there are a few that are on a bit of an upward trajectory (maybe!).
I have my M2 and Clio 172 as my ‘dailies’, so anything I bought would be doing minimal miles and almost certainly stored somewhere as there isn’t enough room at home for another car on the drive (kids both have their own cars). Would be taken out for high days and dry days etc.
Are there any guides out there that speculate on what might appreciate over the next 5 years or so?
Have I missed the boat generally - are we due an impending crash, price-wise?
Budget would be decent-ish and could get me into some nice cars (of which I have a kind of ‘long list’) but not enormous.
A couple of them, I think I’ve missed the boat as it were but there are a few that are on a bit of an upward trajectory (maybe!).
I have my M2 and Clio 172 as my ‘dailies’, so anything I bought would be doing minimal miles and almost certainly stored somewhere as there isn’t enough room at home for another car on the drive (kids both have their own cars). Would be taken out for high days and dry days etc.
Are there any guides out there that speculate on what might appreciate over the next 5 years or so?
I think the perceived wisdom is to buy a car you'll enjoy rather than an investment piece. Ultimately that's what they are there for really, and none of us can predict the future.
I'll be in a similar position in about three years time and I'm hoping (if I fit) it will be a choice of a 911 or a Vantage. My budget will be substantially more than I've ever spent on a car before, but it will be bought to be used and enjoyed.
I'll be in a similar position in about three years time and I'm hoping (if I fit) it will be a choice of a 911 or a Vantage. My budget will be substantially more than I've ever spent on a car before, but it will be bought to be used and enjoyed.
I dont think the stuff thats appreciating now is going to stop appreciating in 5 years, so an e46 m3 is a good shout. Apparently 996 911s are due a boom soon.
Basically, anything thats approx 15-20 years old right now, ideally produced in limited numbers with a manual gearbox, has a reasonable chance of going up in value.
Funnily enough I looked at this the other day... s2000s were also mentioned.
And, I dont want to tell you this for fear of them also going up, but... early r8 v10 manual. Would be where my investment money is going, and id love to drive one too.
Oh also... aren't bmw 1Ms and z4ms due on the up too?
Basically, anything thats approx 15-20 years old right now, ideally produced in limited numbers with a manual gearbox, has a reasonable chance of going up in value.
Funnily enough I looked at this the other day... s2000s were also mentioned.
And, I dont want to tell you this for fear of them also going up, but... early r8 v10 manual. Would be where my investment money is going, and id love to drive one too.
Oh also... aren't bmw 1Ms and z4ms due on the up too?
Edited by brillomaster on Sunday 25th October 10:58
No one has a crystal ball although you will find a few minutes on a LLM reveals many an article and opinion. Cars are a very bad investment vehicle especially if you’re not a large collector and thus have your eggs in a single basket in the form of one car. They are also highly illiquid and involve expensive ongoing upkeep.
Without knowing your long list it’s hard to know what kind of car you’re after as it seems you want something to enjoy as well?
Without knowing your long list it’s hard to know what kind of car you’re after as it seems you want something to enjoy as well?
brillomaster said:
And, I dont want to tell you this for fear of them also going up, but... early r8 v10 manual. Would be where my investment money is going, and id love to drive one too.
Curiously, that was already on my list - only downside is that it could be ruinously expensive to maintain?I've owned a couple of cars that could have been 'investment cars' although they weren't bought for that reason. Unfortunately I sold them before a large rise in value - how was I to know?!
I have a 911 for summer fun which has held its value - will it go up? No idea.
As you can tell, I'm a real expert. However, it seems that you need to own something very new/rare or very a special indeed vintage car to stand any chance of making it worthwhile - particularly given the upkeep required to maintain values.
I have a 911 for summer fun which has held its value - will it go up? No idea.
As you can tell, I'm a real expert. However, it seems that you need to own something very new/rare or very a special indeed vintage car to stand any chance of making it worthwhile - particularly given the upkeep required to maintain values.
The upkeep on future classics can easily see any investment potential destroyed. Cars such as Porches and Astons will require a good few grand squirrelled away every year for surprise servicing costs. Some years you might get lucky and have no bad news, other years you can be hit with a bill that runs into many, many thousands.
As has been said already, buy a car you love and see your happiness more as an investment, rather than think about it financially.
The other trap many fall into (been there myself) is increasingly worry about putting miles on the car. Obviously not so much of an issue if you have a GT250 or a Miura in your garage but it’s very easy for the car you love turning into a very large doorstop for fear of using it whenever you like because you’re worried about seeing large numbers on the gauge.
As has been said already, buy a car you love and see your happiness more as an investment, rather than think about it financially.
The other trap many fall into (been there myself) is increasingly worry about putting miles on the car. Obviously not so much of an issue if you have a GT250 or a Miura in your garage but it’s very easy for the car you love turning into a very large doorstop for fear of using it whenever you like because you’re worried about seeing large numbers on the gauge.
Do pension funds invest in cars? I think not, so there is the answer - that are not a sensible long term investment. You may get lucky, but that's all it will be.
For investments it's best to drip-feed into a spread of assets, but cars are not one.
Buy a car that is fun or practical, but dismiss its cost as a household expenditure and/or personal entertainment.
For investments it's best to drip-feed into a spread of assets, but cars are not one.
Buy a car that is fun or practical, but dismiss its cost as a household expenditure and/or personal entertainment.
Oh yeah the second you want to actually drive the thing, the cost of maintaining it, servicing it and taxing it quickly eats into any potential profit.
You could perhaps buy a museum piece, and sorn it for a few years, but then youre really hoping to find the right buyer who's also going to put it in a collection and not drive it.
Other options... someone's selling a 42,000mile tvr cerbera for £17k... or a DB7 manual for £26k... they've got potential in my eyes...
You could perhaps buy a museum piece, and sorn it for a few years, but then youre really hoping to find the right buyer who's also going to put it in a collection and not drive it.
Other options... someone's selling a 42,000mile tvr cerbera for £17k... or a DB7 manual for £26k... they've got potential in my eyes...
By the time you add up insurance, maintenance, tax and storage, any car that pays you to own it will be rare.
And then there's inflation which prunes the contenders by a large factor.
Outside of the absolute blue chip stuff, there's a pretty clear window when a car's value peaks and that's when the next generation can afford the cars they desired in their youth.
Once they end up in nappies then the excitement falls away.
There will always be one off cars like delivery mileage examples etc, but you also need a one off buyer for that.
And then there's inflation which prunes the contenders by a large factor.
Outside of the absolute blue chip stuff, there's a pretty clear window when a car's value peaks and that's when the next generation can afford the cars they desired in their youth.
Once they end up in nappies then the excitement falls away.
There will always be one off cars like delivery mileage examples etc, but you also need a one off buyer for that.
Chubbyross said:
The other trap many fall into (been there myself) is increasingly worry about putting miles on the car. Obviously not so much of an issue if you have a GT250 or a Miura in your garage but it s very easy for the car you love turning into a very large doorstop for fear of using it whenever you like because you re worried about seeing large numbers on the gauge.
There is a reasonable chance whatever I buy might not fit in my garage and, if it's very low, I might scuff it getting it off the drive.Therefore my mindset is going to be it is going to bought to be used on an almost daily basis and I expect no return from it.
That way I hope I'll use it as intended. I'm fairly sure that a 6-10 year old V8 Vantage or 911 S or GTS could be used like that.
Pincher said:
That s my worry. But haven t people been saying that for years now?
Although, I guess it would have to happen sometime.
One has to remember that the "bubble" was, in large part, due to zero interest rates. Firstly, there was nowhere to get a low-risk return on spare capital. Secondly, one could leverage one's investments for minimal cost. As a result, lots of money flooded into the collectable car market.Although, I guess it would have to happen sometime.
That impetus has begun to reverse and, in my opinion, interest rates have further to go.
I believe the very top (McLaren F1, Ferrari 250 GTO, etc.) is pretty immune. The middle is already under pressure. E-types have cheapened a lot. I can't see the fast Fords doing well.
I think the obvious maxims are desirability, rarity and the 20-year rule. Desirability and rarity are obvious. The 20-year rule is to look at what was the poster car for kids 20 years ago that they could only dream about them - but can afford to buy now.
Pincher said:
brillomaster said:
And, I dont want to tell you this for fear of them also going up, but... early r8 v10 manual. Would be where my investment money is going, and id love to drive one too.
Curiously, that was already on my list - only downside is that it could be ruinously expensive to maintain?Would love to get my stickies on another.
FWIW I see a few cars that are unlikely to get cheaper so have a potential upside. In addition to the R8 manual mentioned above, the manual 1st gen Vanquish and the manual 997.1s have yet to take off mostly.
It’s quite hard to see the Ferrari 456 (manual), 612, California and FF go below their current floors, but not impossible.
At a lower budget I can’t see manual Maserati 3200 or 4200s ever being cheaper. I also see the Mk 5 4.7 ZF V8 Quattroporte as a potential future classic.
Or buy a Fiesta ST-3 Performance Edition and wait 20 years.
It’s quite hard to see the Ferrari 456 (manual), 612, California and FF go below their current floors, but not impossible.
At a lower budget I can’t see manual Maserati 3200 or 4200s ever being cheaper. I also see the Mk 5 4.7 ZF V8 Quattroporte as a potential future classic.
Or buy a Fiesta ST-3 Performance Edition and wait 20 years.
fflump said:
FWIW I see a few cars that are unlikely to get cheaper so have a potential upside. In addition to the R8 manual mentioned above, the manual 1st gen Vanquish and the manual 997.1s have yet to take off mostly.
It s quite hard to see the Ferrari 456 (manual), 612, California and FF go below their current floors, but not impossible.
At a lower budget I can t see manual Maserati 3200 or 4200s ever being cheaper. I also see the Mk 5 4.7 ZF V8 Quattroporte as a potential future classic.
Or buy a Fiesta ST-3 Performance Edition and wait 20 years.
I have 4 ST, s, one a 20 year old Fiesta, a 19 year old Focus and Fiesta, and an 11 year old diesel. It s quite hard to see the Ferrari 456 (manual), 612, California and FF go below their current floors, but not impossible.
At a lower budget I can t see manual Maserati 3200 or 4200s ever being cheaper. I also see the Mk 5 4.7 ZF V8 Quattroporte as a potential future classic.
Or buy a Fiesta ST-3 Performance Edition and wait 20 years.
While they are all worth more than I paid for them, even in a softening market, none would have been great investments.
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