Tree storm damage responsibility
Discussion
Just wondering who is liable for storm damage and future costs costs here...
There is a giant poplar tree at the bottom of my next door neighbours garden, but the trunk is positioned in the corner of 3 gardens, as follows
45% in garden 1
45& in garden 2
10% in garden 3 (my next door neighbour)
(Thankfully non of it is in my garden!)
I call the above three neighbours the 'Tree Amigos'
who comprise of my next door neighbour and two neighbours who's garden backs onto him.
In recent winds a branch snapped off and demolished the garden shed of an entirely different neighbour, whose garden the tree doesn't grow in, but over hangs into it. This neighbour contacted their own house insurance company (Aviva) who within 2 days sent a tree surgeon round to clear away the fallen branch. They are also paying out for a new garden shed. Excellent service.
Question 1...
1) Does the claimants insurance company stomach the cost of clearing the fallen branch and supplying a new garden shed, or seeing as the tree doesn't even grow in this claimants garden does the insurance company claim from the 'tree amigos' house insurance?
Due to the size of the tree it could cause lots of damage if another branch snaps off, including to my garden shed and greenhouse. If the whole tree fell over it could even partly demolish one of the houses (thankfully not mine ). So a second issue is maintaining or reducing the height of the tree to minimise/negate any future damage or injury it may cause. One of the 'tree Amigos' has received a £6k quote to reduce the height to just above garden fence level, or £8k to completely remove the tree. it will likely involve climbing with ropes and using chainsaws at height, training, insurance, risk etc. Not a cheap thing.
One of the 'Tree Amigos' is a single parent and isn't in a position to pay towards this cost, which is causing friction with one of the Tree Amigos.
Question 2
2) Who is responsible for this preventative maintenance work to be carried out, and how are the costs shared? Are all three equally response or partly responsible according to the percentage of the three growing in their garden?
Photo of the tree taken from my garden. ...
There is a giant poplar tree at the bottom of my next door neighbours garden, but the trunk is positioned in the corner of 3 gardens, as follows
45% in garden 1
45& in garden 2
10% in garden 3 (my next door neighbour)
(Thankfully non of it is in my garden!)
I call the above three neighbours the 'Tree Amigos'
who comprise of my next door neighbour and two neighbours who's garden backs onto him. In recent winds a branch snapped off and demolished the garden shed of an entirely different neighbour, whose garden the tree doesn't grow in, but over hangs into it. This neighbour contacted their own house insurance company (Aviva) who within 2 days sent a tree surgeon round to clear away the fallen branch. They are also paying out for a new garden shed. Excellent service.
Question 1...
1) Does the claimants insurance company stomach the cost of clearing the fallen branch and supplying a new garden shed, or seeing as the tree doesn't even grow in this claimants garden does the insurance company claim from the 'tree amigos' house insurance?
Due to the size of the tree it could cause lots of damage if another branch snaps off, including to my garden shed and greenhouse. If the whole tree fell over it could even partly demolish one of the houses (thankfully not mine
). So a second issue is maintaining or reducing the height of the tree to minimise/negate any future damage or injury it may cause. One of the 'tree Amigos' has received a £6k quote to reduce the height to just above garden fence level, or £8k to completely remove the tree. it will likely involve climbing with ropes and using chainsaws at height, training, insurance, risk etc. Not a cheap thing.One of the 'Tree Amigos' is a single parent and isn't in a position to pay towards this cost, which is causing friction with one of the Tree Amigos.
Question 2
2) Who is responsible for this preventative maintenance work to be carried out, and how are the costs shared? Are all three equally response or partly responsible according to the percentage of the three growing in their garden?
Photo of the tree taken from my garden. ...
Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 31st October 14:45
The Gauge said:
There is a giant poplar tree at the bottom of my next door neighbours garden, but its actually growing in the corner of 3 gardens, as follows
45% in garden 1
45& in garden 2
10% in garden 3 (my next door neighbour)
(Thankfully non of it is in my garden!)
Surely it's legally 100% in garden 3 as that's whose garden it's growing in? Garden 3, your next door neighbour, is responsible for it.45% in garden 1
45& in garden 2
10% in garden 3 (my next door neighbour)
(Thankfully non of it is in my garden!)
In terms of the damage caused by the falling branch my understanding is that unless the insurer can prove the tree owner is negligent in relation to the trees health then there is no come back on the tree owner for the damage caused.
I looked into this during the recent storms as a hypothetical situation should something fall from either my house or my neighbours onto a car and everything pointed to the person receiving the damage having to claim on their own insurance unless negligence can be proven.
I looked into this during the recent storms as a hypothetical situation should something fall from either my house or my neighbours onto a car and everything pointed to the person receiving the damage having to claim on their own insurance unless negligence can be proven.
If there's no negligence by any of the 'tree amigos', and the damage isn't to the insured property, then the 'tree amigos' insurers would just say it's not their problem.
It's normally down to the injured party's insurer to pay out (possibly affecting the injured party's future premiums) in these sort of cases.
Unless negligence can be shown from a history of ignored warnings, where they could be held liable, then you may have a claim against the neighbour, not their insurer, as their insurer may refuse to pay out as the neighbour hasn't maintained the tree properly.
It's similar to when roof tiles come of and damage neighbour property (which happened in our case). The neighbour's insurer told our insurer that it was an 'act of god' and that they should claim the costs of the car damage from the neighbour directly. She's an OAP living on her own and doesn't even maintain the bushes in the front/rear gardens (other than throwing a gallon of weed killer down about once a year), and has had many warnings over the years that there are missing tiles, ridge tiles, dripping gutters, cracked facias, etc. and water is now causing damp in our property too. But she just says she hasn't got the money to pay to fix it.
It's normally down to the injured party's insurer to pay out (possibly affecting the injured party's future premiums) in these sort of cases.
Unless negligence can be shown from a history of ignored warnings, where they could be held liable, then you may have a claim against the neighbour, not their insurer, as their insurer may refuse to pay out as the neighbour hasn't maintained the tree properly.
It's similar to when roof tiles come of and damage neighbour property (which happened in our case). The neighbour's insurer told our insurer that it was an 'act of god' and that they should claim the costs of the car damage from the neighbour directly. She's an OAP living on her own and doesn't even maintain the bushes in the front/rear gardens (other than throwing a gallon of weed killer down about once a year), and has had many warnings over the years that there are missing tiles, ridge tiles, dripping gutters, cracked facias, etc. and water is now causing damp in our property too. But she just says she hasn't got the money to pay to fix it.
Get a load of other tree surgeon quotes.
£6k is a joke.
Shouldn't be more than £1k to reduce that down.
The owner is responsible.
If they won't pay then just offer to split the cost between all of you.
You will still need the owners permission to cut anything on his land.
Wut no copper nails?
PH is slipping.
£6k is a joke.
Shouldn't be more than £1k to reduce that down.
The owner is responsible.
If they won't pay then just offer to split the cost between all of you.
You will still need the owners permission to cut anything on his land.
Wut no copper nails?
PH is slipping.
OIC said:
Get a load of other tree surgeon quotes.
£6k is a joke.
Shouldn't be more than £1k to reduce that down.
I’d agree that £6k is too much but equally you aren’t getting that done for £1k either. The cleanup would be £1k and the cutting £1k, location dependent bit more or bit less.£6k is a joke.
Shouldn't be more than £1k to reduce that down.
I tried really hard getting tree work quotes a couple of years ago and found the very best was £700+ for a day which realistically is 5 hours work. Climber and lad on the ground, no cleanup so no chipper, waste, moving logs etc.
Just paid 6k cad to have a Manitoba Maple ( Aka a weed tree) removed from my property, 50ft tall and leaning on my garage so much that the door was beginning to not roll properly on the tracks, it’s amazing that some neighbours were thankful I was taking responsibility for it, while others complained it was being removed….
One neighbour even offered me money, as the tree sits near their property, but it’s ours 100%!
One neighbour even offered me money, as the tree sits near their property, but it’s ours 100%!
Mike Legerwood said:
Whose garden is the trunk of the tree in?
borcy said:
Which garden is the tree trunk in?
All three gardens, it's growing in the corner of all three,. I've amended my initial post to stress that it's the trunk that is growing in all there gardens as per the percentages in the first postTrunk...
45% in garden 1
45& in garden 2
10% in garden 3 (my next door neighbour)
As for the branches, well they overhang into all of the three gardens, plus the garden of the damaged shed, and slightly over my garden, so 5 gardens in total.
NDA said:
Surely it's legally 100% in garden 3 as that's whose garden it's growing in? Garden 3, your next door neighbour, is responsible for it.
Im not sure how you come to that conclusion when only 10% of the trunk is in his garden.I guess if you could go back in time then the tree would have been growing between the two other gardens boundaries, but as the trunk diameter has swelled in size it has encroached into garden 3. but that's just a guess.
Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 31st October 14:51
Personally I love having such a big tree there, it's my favourite feature of my garden, even though it isn't in my garden, it's pleasant to look at and is great for the birds and wildlife.
It was reduced in height 23yrs ago and has since branched off from the cuts and grown into the tree we see today. But it's got to such a size that maintenance is difficult and expensive. it's not until the recent storm damage that the Tree Amigos have become concerned.
War has now been declared between the three neighbours. One of the 45% neighbours refuses to contribute to maintenance because he has no money to do so, the 10% neighbour (my next door neighbour) doesn't think he should contribute a full third as hardly any of the trunk is in his garden, and the the other 45% neighbour now feels he's been left holding the £6k baby
In the meantime I have been given the fallen branch by the neighbour whose garden it fell into for firewood. Legally the fallen branch is jointly owned by the Tree Amigos but seeing as they are all at war with each other I have acted as Switzerland, snuck in and dragged the branch into neutral territory, kind ol like a war sanction until a ceasefire can be declared
It was reduced in height 23yrs ago and has since branched off from the cuts and grown into the tree we see today. But it's got to such a size that maintenance is difficult and expensive. it's not until the recent storm damage that the Tree Amigos have become concerned.
War has now been declared between the three neighbours. One of the 45% neighbours refuses to contribute to maintenance because he has no money to do so, the 10% neighbour (my next door neighbour) doesn't think he should contribute a full third as hardly any of the trunk is in his garden, and the the other 45% neighbour now feels he's been left holding the £6k baby
In the meantime I have been given the fallen branch by the neighbour whose garden it fell into for firewood. Legally the fallen branch is jointly owned by the Tree Amigos but seeing as they are all at war with each other I have acted as Switzerland, snuck in and dragged the branch into neutral territory, kind ol like a war sanction until a ceasefire can be declared
Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 31st October 15:00
mmm-five said:
If there's no negligence by any of the 'tree amigos', and the damage isn't to the insured property, then the 'tree amigos' insurers would just say it's not their problem.
It's normally down to the injured party's insurer to pay out (possibly affecting the injured party's future premiums) in these sort of cases.
Unless negligence can be shown from a history of ignored warnings, where they could be held liable, then you may have a claim against the neighbour, not their insurer, as their insurer may refuse to pay out as the neighbour hasn't maintained the tree properly.
It's similar to when roof tiles come of and damage neighbour property (which happened in our case). The neighbour's insurer told our insurer that it was an 'act of god' and that they should claim the costs of the car damage from the neighbour directly. She's an OAP living on her own and doesn't even maintain the bushes in the front/rear gardens (other than throwing a gallon of weed killer down about once a year), and has had many warnings over the years that there are missing tiles, ridge tiles, dripping gutters, cracked facias, etc. and water is now causing damp in our property too. But she just says she hasn't got the money to pay to fix it.
Basically the correct answer. It's normally down to the injured party's insurer to pay out (possibly affecting the injured party's future premiums) in these sort of cases.
Unless negligence can be shown from a history of ignored warnings, where they could be held liable, then you may have a claim against the neighbour, not their insurer, as their insurer may refuse to pay out as the neighbour hasn't maintained the tree properly.
It's similar to when roof tiles come of and damage neighbour property (which happened in our case). The neighbour's insurer told our insurer that it was an 'act of god' and that they should claim the costs of the car damage from the neighbour directly. She's an OAP living on her own and doesn't even maintain the bushes in the front/rear gardens (other than throwing a gallon of weed killer down about once a year), and has had many warnings over the years that there are missing tiles, ridge tiles, dripping gutters, cracked facias, etc. and water is now causing damp in our property too. But she just says she hasn't got the money to pay to fix it.
Tree looks healthy, so no negligence on anyone's part if bits fall off and cause damage. It's down to the person who has suffered the damage to put it right, or their insurers if they have one.
Bill said:
Is the tee itself actually unhealthy, or was it just one branch? Would a small tidy up be enough rather than getting rid entirely?
it appears healthy, however the snapped branch was rotten inside, hence why it fell in the winds.There's potential for further rot in the tree, but it's not possible to know without climbing up and inspecting, and therein lies the problem
I would like the tree to remain, but reducing it in height would be sensible, though it will grow back again to become a problem in another 15+years.
As for the height, well there's more chance of it demolishing the other two neighbours as it is likely to fall their way due to the westerly winds we get, and their gardens are shorter than mine so their houses are at risk, if it fell my way I don't think to would reach my house but I'd definitely need a Go Fund Me fora new greenhouse!
If it were in my garden I would have put up an owl nest box. I've suggested it, but the other neighbours don't seem to care.
Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 31st October 15:55
Interesting thread.
For a start, the costs quoted here for tree removal seem enormous. I’ve had tree surgeons work on a large (35ft+) Walnut Tree in my garden a couple of times in the last five years. They have reduced the height dramatically and removed lower overhanging branches and chipped everything (apart from some large pieces I kept). Working from abseil lines the total cost each time has been around £400. The largest pieces removed look to be a similar diameter to the trunk of the tree that was between the two sheds mentioned above.
It’s difficult to judge, but I doubt if my tree is smaller in any way than the trees shown and presumably total removal could be a lot easier than what I have asked them to do, even if that would take a bit longer. For this, I might expect £1000 - but £6000?? It’s a good day’s work for two men when all’s said and done.
Also, BT (I assume) have installed a large black box (I am thinking something to do with fibre installation) about a third of the way up a telegraph pole at the bottom of my garden. The box actually overhangs my garden slightly, which is not something I am particularly worried about, except it looks like the only way they were able to get it there is because I had recently trimmed some large branches off an old plum tree. These branches are rapidly growing back, and will inevitably start to move the box. I am wondering if, in time, I will get some grief from the people living in the private road at the back of my garden, about their internet packing up…
For a start, the costs quoted here for tree removal seem enormous. I’ve had tree surgeons work on a large (35ft+) Walnut Tree in my garden a couple of times in the last five years. They have reduced the height dramatically and removed lower overhanging branches and chipped everything (apart from some large pieces I kept). Working from abseil lines the total cost each time has been around £400. The largest pieces removed look to be a similar diameter to the trunk of the tree that was between the two sheds mentioned above.
It’s difficult to judge, but I doubt if my tree is smaller in any way than the trees shown and presumably total removal could be a lot easier than what I have asked them to do, even if that would take a bit longer. For this, I might expect £1000 - but £6000?? It’s a good day’s work for two men when all’s said and done.
Also, BT (I assume) have installed a large black box (I am thinking something to do with fibre installation) about a third of the way up a telegraph pole at the bottom of my garden. The box actually overhangs my garden slightly, which is not something I am particularly worried about, except it looks like the only way they were able to get it there is because I had recently trimmed some large branches off an old plum tree. These branches are rapidly growing back, and will inevitably start to move the box. I am wondering if, in time, I will get some grief from the people living in the private road at the back of my garden, about their internet packing up…
The Gauge said:
NDA said:
Surely it's legally 100% in garden 3 as that's whose garden it's growing in? Garden 3, your next door neighbour, is responsible for it.
Im not sure how you come to that conclusion when only 10% of the trunk is in his garden.Foss62 said:
Interesting thread.
For a start, the costs quoted here for tree removal seem enormous. I ve had tree surgeons work on a large (35ft+) Walnut Tree in my garden a couple of times in the last five years. They have reduced the height dramatically and removed lower overhanging branches and chipped everything (apart from some large pieces I kept). Working from abseil lines the total cost each time has been around £400. The largest pieces removed look to be a similar diameter to the trunk of the tree that was between the two sheds mentioned above.
It s difficult to judge, but I doubt if my tree is smaller in any way than the trees shown and presumably total removal could be a lot easier than what I have asked them to do, even if that would take a bit longer. For this, I might expect £1000 - but £6000?? It s a good day s work for two men when all s said and done.
'Emergency Call Out' idiot tax? It does sound like they're taking the piss or just don't want the job.For a start, the costs quoted here for tree removal seem enormous. I ve had tree surgeons work on a large (35ft+) Walnut Tree in my garden a couple of times in the last five years. They have reduced the height dramatically and removed lower overhanging branches and chipped everything (apart from some large pieces I kept). Working from abseil lines the total cost each time has been around £400. The largest pieces removed look to be a similar diameter to the trunk of the tree that was between the two sheds mentioned above.
It s difficult to judge, but I doubt if my tree is smaller in any way than the trees shown and presumably total removal could be a lot easier than what I have asked them to do, even if that would take a bit longer. For this, I might expect £1000 - but £6000?? It s a good day s work for two men when all s said and done.
Thanks for posting this OP. I have a similar issue. I moved to my current house 20 years when it was a new build. Down the side of my garden, where I have my shed, there is a fence, where two neighbours live in houses, one built in the 1950’s, the other in the 1990’s. On their boundary, there is a large tree, which quite frankly, is PITA. A few years ago, the guy who owns the 1950’s house shouts over the fence that the tree is becoming a problem and would I be prepared to share the cost of having it trimmed. I agreed and the £900 was split three ways. When I went around to pay him, he then showed me a print out from the land registry that showed the tree is actually mine! The bloody builders of my house couldn’t be bothered to put my fence around it, to obviously show it was mine, so just went in a straight line. The tree has almost grown back to where it was and, to be honest, I would love to have it completely taken down/out, rather than provide a guaranteed £900 to the tree surgeons every few years. However, when I mentioned this, the guy in the 1950’s house has said that he doesn’t want it removing and will not give permission for anyone to go on his property, other than to trim it! I like to maintain good relationships with my neighbours, so haven’t pushed it, but it does worry me if it gets blown over in a storm, that I might be held responsible for any third party damage as I actually own the bloody thing!
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