Discussion
Comparing a 997.2 C4S Cab and a 991.1 C4S Cab, some thoughts are as follows.
The 991 felt a more "grown up" car. The interior felt considerably more modern and was bigger. The whole car was and felt a chunk larger. For me this was generally negative and I missed the smaller 997, especially as a lot of the miles the cars did were on Scottish B roads. The 991 was better for the boring drives on the motorway, but for fun drives I would pick a 997.2 over a 991.1 every day of the week. The 997 steering was utter joy and after it the 991 felt disappointing. Both cars were the 3.8, but the 997 always felt quicker. While the 991 was more powerful, it was heavier and it never felt anywhere near as urgent, especially at lower revs. Coming off a roundabout in 2nd in the 991 had you low enough in the rev range for the car to feel oddly sluggish. The 997 felt much more eager in the same situation. Both cars had PASM. The 991 had a better "everyday" ride, but when on it the 997 seemed to key into the road in a manner which felt more reassuring. I suspect the 991 had more out and out grip, but the 997 gave more confidence. Both cars also had sports exhaust. The 991 was louder and more in your face, but it always felt a bit forced - not quick S3/Golf R pops and bangs map forced, but it didn't sound quite natural. The 997 was the nicer sounding car.
If it sounds like I'm being down on the 991 it's because I am. It was an excellent car and I enjoyed many miles in it, but if I could have either again it would be a no brainer to take the 997. Smaller, more agile, nicer sounding, better steering, more engaging and I think a real 911 sweet spot. If I could add a car to the stable I'd have an 997 in a heartbeat. The 991 was the car if you do lots of boring driving - motorway and round town.
Just my thoughts. But I do find myself now wanting to drive a 997 again. I miss that car.
The 991 felt a more "grown up" car. The interior felt considerably more modern and was bigger. The whole car was and felt a chunk larger. For me this was generally negative and I missed the smaller 997, especially as a lot of the miles the cars did were on Scottish B roads. The 991 was better for the boring drives on the motorway, but for fun drives I would pick a 997.2 over a 991.1 every day of the week. The 997 steering was utter joy and after it the 991 felt disappointing. Both cars were the 3.8, but the 997 always felt quicker. While the 991 was more powerful, it was heavier and it never felt anywhere near as urgent, especially at lower revs. Coming off a roundabout in 2nd in the 991 had you low enough in the rev range for the car to feel oddly sluggish. The 997 felt much more eager in the same situation. Both cars had PASM. The 991 had a better "everyday" ride, but when on it the 997 seemed to key into the road in a manner which felt more reassuring. I suspect the 991 had more out and out grip, but the 997 gave more confidence. Both cars also had sports exhaust. The 991 was louder and more in your face, but it always felt a bit forced - not quick S3/Golf R pops and bangs map forced, but it didn't sound quite natural. The 997 was the nicer sounding car.
If it sounds like I'm being down on the 991 it's because I am. It was an excellent car and I enjoyed many miles in it, but if I could have either again it would be a no brainer to take the 997. Smaller, more agile, nicer sounding, better steering, more engaging and I think a real 911 sweet spot. If I could add a car to the stable I'd have an 997 in a heartbeat. The 991 was the car if you do lots of boring driving - motorway and round town.
Just my thoughts. But I do find myself now wanting to drive a 997 again. I miss that car.
The 991 is only marginally longer (55mm) than the 997, is no wider and is actually lighter.
The wheelbase’s is longer though which gives it a more stable feel, and there little difference in the engine between. 997.2 and a 991.1
The 991 does have electric PAS which (in non GT3 form at least) may contribute to the different feel?
The wheelbase’s is longer though which gives it a more stable feel, and there little difference in the engine between. 997.2 and a 991.1
The 991 does have electric PAS which (in non GT3 form at least) may contribute to the different feel?
Skye5 said:
The 991 is only marginally longer (55mm) than the 997, is no wider and is actually lighter.
Often overlooked facts. Its the significantly wider front track of the 991 that gives the impression of it being a wider, more unwieldy car than the 997, even though they are the same width at the rear.finmac said:
Great reply, thanks for taking the time. I do a lot of back road (around Scotland) driving myself plus the odd run up the A9. Sounds like either would do but 997 be the more satisfying. Out of interest, How did you find the cabs for scuttle shake etc on the twisties?
Both cars were my other halves and before them was a 997.1 C4S Cab too. I was the one who did most miles in them though. Driving them, you are aware the cab isn't as stiff, but not to the extent that it ever bothered me and I found myself really enjoying the roof down 911 experience. Prior to those cars I was quite anti-convertible, but they do get under your skin and the noise with the roof down is very moreish. Through the time we had the 997 and 991, I had a Cayman R (which I still have). This does feel stiffer, but that's not really a surprise. The only issue we had with the cabs was an annoying rattle on the 997 which the local OPC (eventually) resolved under warranty. kith said:
Skye5 said:
The 991 is only marginally longer (55mm) than the 997, is no wider and is actually lighter.
Often overlooked facts. Its the significantly wider front track of the 991 that gives the impression of it being a wider, more unwieldy car than the 997, even though they are the same width at the rear.I also have a 997.2 C4S cab. I don’t honestly notice any particular scuttle shake, I’m too busy enjoying the noise with the roof down and the PSE switched on! I do have a DSC Sport controller fitted however, which I think is brilliant and without doubt improves ride comfort which in turn reduces scuttle shake. I view the cab as not necessarily being the purest or objectively best version of the 911, but the 911 cab is the best convertible sports car in my view.
I’ve not driven a 991.1 but I had a 991.2 manual and as a dyed in the wool manual gearbox fan I really didn’t get on with the 7 speed, I just found it awkward with the extra ratio. I swapped that car for a 997.2 GT3 and found the 6 speed manual absolute bliss in comparison so maybe something to consider if you prefer a manual. My 997’s are without doubt better built than the 991.2 I had as well, which had numerous rattles that I could never quite track down.
I know people bang on about steering but I do agree that the final incarnation of hydraulic power steering on the 987 (I also have a Boxster 2.9) and 997 generation Porsches was the best ever and the comparison with the first generation EPAS on the 991 always appears to go in favour of the 997. I really notice just how good it is after driving any modern car, including the 718 Spyder I had which is highly praised for it’s steering. It’s great but it still feels very light compared with the incredible weighting, feel and accuracy of the 987/997 generation.
My 997 is a fun car only (I suspect the 991.1 would overall be a better daily driver) to use on Sunday morning blasts and continental touring and for me it’s perfect in that role. It’s old school enough to make you work for your fun but plenty quick enough on the road to run with modern machinery whilst also being able to benefit from modern tech like the DSC Sport Controller and the Integrated Automotive Apple Carplay functionality, which I find brilliant as it retains the originality of the PCM in the centre console.
Hope that contributes a little to your thought process
I’ve not driven a 991.1 but I had a 991.2 manual and as a dyed in the wool manual gearbox fan I really didn’t get on with the 7 speed, I just found it awkward with the extra ratio. I swapped that car for a 997.2 GT3 and found the 6 speed manual absolute bliss in comparison so maybe something to consider if you prefer a manual. My 997’s are without doubt better built than the 991.2 I had as well, which had numerous rattles that I could never quite track down.
I know people bang on about steering but I do agree that the final incarnation of hydraulic power steering on the 987 (I also have a Boxster 2.9) and 997 generation Porsches was the best ever and the comparison with the first generation EPAS on the 991 always appears to go in favour of the 997. I really notice just how good it is after driving any modern car, including the 718 Spyder I had which is highly praised for it’s steering. It’s great but it still feels very light compared with the incredible weighting, feel and accuracy of the 987/997 generation.
My 997 is a fun car only (I suspect the 991.1 would overall be a better daily driver) to use on Sunday morning blasts and continental touring and for me it’s perfect in that role. It’s old school enough to make you work for your fun but plenty quick enough on the road to run with modern machinery whilst also being able to benefit from modern tech like the DSC Sport Controller and the Integrated Automotive Apple Carplay functionality, which I find brilliant as it retains the originality of the PCM in the centre console.
Hope that contributes a little to your thought process
I have owned a 991.1 for 3 months (3.4 manual coupe). I have not owned a 997.2 but did own a 987.2 cayman a few years ago of the same generation.
I started my search for a 997.2 but soon realised a 991.1 was a better option for me due to a bit more internal space and rear isofix as I wanted to put 2 small children in the back occasionally. Thats not a requirement that most others have. Its a weekend car and occasional commuter, so the extra refinement is also a benefit for me.
Another big benefit of the 991.1 is the exhaust sound. To my ears, its significantly better than the 997.2, especially now that I've had PSE retrofitted. It's a lovely sound. You might be able to replicate with a 997 but would require work.
Now to address a couple of common concerns with the 991.1.
Steering - it's a while since I owened the 987 Cayman and before that an Exige. Both had amazing steering. The steering in the 991 is clearly not as good, but it is still good compared to other electric steering systems Ive experienced recently in BMWs and various other cars.
Manual Gearbox - not as good as the 6 speed cayman and I expect the 997. But I still really enjoy it, for me it offers interaction I've missed for several years. The clutch is heavy in low speed maneuvering but once moving It's a good box.
I think in summary, if I didn't have the need to put kids in the back I'd probably have gone 997.2, and I also think its got better investment potential if we dare use that word. However, I am very happy with the 991.
I started my search for a 997.2 but soon realised a 991.1 was a better option for me due to a bit more internal space and rear isofix as I wanted to put 2 small children in the back occasionally. Thats not a requirement that most others have. Its a weekend car and occasional commuter, so the extra refinement is also a benefit for me.
Another big benefit of the 991.1 is the exhaust sound. To my ears, its significantly better than the 997.2, especially now that I've had PSE retrofitted. It's a lovely sound. You might be able to replicate with a 997 but would require work.
Now to address a couple of common concerns with the 991.1.
Steering - it's a while since I owened the 987 Cayman and before that an Exige. Both had amazing steering. The steering in the 991 is clearly not as good, but it is still good compared to other electric steering systems Ive experienced recently in BMWs and various other cars.
Manual Gearbox - not as good as the 6 speed cayman and I expect the 997. But I still really enjoy it, for me it offers interaction I've missed for several years. The clutch is heavy in low speed maneuvering but once moving It's a good box.
I think in summary, if I didn't have the need to put kids in the back I'd probably have gone 997.2, and I also think its got better investment potential if we dare use that word. However, I am very happy with the 991.
Edited by JackReacher on Wednesday 11th November 15:33
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