Warning re Porsche key cloning: Please Read
Discussion
I'll keep this as brief as possible but it's important if you own a Porsche.
Last Friday I parked my 992.2 Carrera S, which is my daily driver, in central London for a brief medical appointment. I carry all my stuff around in a black rucksack, and on a whim I decided to leave it in the boot or 'frunk' (hate that word). Car was locked, wing mirrors folded in, steering lock on the wheel which is a must especially in London.
Long story short, and I only found this out subsequently from a combination of witnesses, CCTV, the Police and an one of the very senior 'master technicians' in Reading whom I have known and respected for many years.
When I parked the car a 'spotter' alerted the criminal that there was a bag in the boot. The moment I pressed the lock he was somehow able to synch my signal which gave him the ability to click his device and enter the car. He went straight for the boot, which he was somehow able to open with said device and off he went with all my stuff. A suspicious pedestrian even took a photo of him getting into a cab with rubber gloves on and my bag on his back. Mercifully no damage to the car.
I'm not accusing Porsche of anything egregious just yet, but it is clear that they are aware that technology has reached a point where Porsche keys can be cloned. I intend to start a campaign for a recall but in the meantime I wanted to make everyone aware that particularly in London The Met explained that this happens multiple times on a daily basis but that its only recently (last 3-4 months) that whereas previously Porsches were relatively safe, that is no longer the case hence its a heavily targeted car and they even showed me a Porsche being stolen from the exact same spot two days previously.
I'm not trying to be alarmist, and from what I understand this has thus far been a mainly London based issue. Nevertheless, it is a FACT that Porsche keys can now be cloned in the same way that Range Rovers were so famously.
Please be careful out there people. Porsche may want to bury their head in the sand, but this is happening Stateside too and I fear with society the way it is these thefts of 911's, Boxsters etc will only increase. Sad but 100% true.
I hope this has been helpful.
Last Friday I parked my 992.2 Carrera S, which is my daily driver, in central London for a brief medical appointment. I carry all my stuff around in a black rucksack, and on a whim I decided to leave it in the boot or 'frunk' (hate that word). Car was locked, wing mirrors folded in, steering lock on the wheel which is a must especially in London.
Long story short, and I only found this out subsequently from a combination of witnesses, CCTV, the Police and an one of the very senior 'master technicians' in Reading whom I have known and respected for many years.
When I parked the car a 'spotter' alerted the criminal that there was a bag in the boot. The moment I pressed the lock he was somehow able to synch my signal which gave him the ability to click his device and enter the car. He went straight for the boot, which he was somehow able to open with said device and off he went with all my stuff. A suspicious pedestrian even took a photo of him getting into a cab with rubber gloves on and my bag on his back. Mercifully no damage to the car.
I'm not accusing Porsche of anything egregious just yet, but it is clear that they are aware that technology has reached a point where Porsche keys can be cloned. I intend to start a campaign for a recall but in the meantime I wanted to make everyone aware that particularly in London The Met explained that this happens multiple times on a daily basis but that its only recently (last 3-4 months) that whereas previously Porsches were relatively safe, that is no longer the case hence its a heavily targeted car and they even showed me a Porsche being stolen from the exact same spot two days previously.
I'm not trying to be alarmist, and from what I understand this has thus far been a mainly London based issue. Nevertheless, it is a FACT that Porsche keys can now be cloned in the same way that Range Rovers were so famously.
Please be careful out there people. Porsche may want to bury their head in the sand, but this is happening Stateside too and I fear with society the way it is these thefts of 911's, Boxsters etc will only increase. Sad but 100% true.
I hope this has been helpful.
Here's what google has to say about it,
"How Code Grabbers Work
"Modern vehicles rely on encrypted radio signals for remote locking and passive keyless entry. Depending on the vehicle's security system, interception devices operate in three primary ways:
Signal Interception and Replay. On older vehicles that use static (fixed) codes, a grabber simply records the RF signal when the owner presses the unlock button and replays that exact signal later to open the doors.
RollJam Attacks. Newer cars use "rolling codes" that generate a new, single-use encrypted code every time the fob is pressed. To bypass this, a RollJam device simultaneously jams the signal so the car does not unlock while recording the first valid code. When the driver presses the button a second time, the device captures the second code and broadcasts the first code to unlock the car, leaving the attacker with an unused, valid code for later.
And then there's the related subject of thefts from your driveway at home. I believe some people put their car keys in a Faraday Cage at home to defeat this one.
Relay Attacks. Often grouped with code grabbers, relay boxes do not store or decode signals. Instead, two devices work together to bridge the physical distance between a passive keyless entry fob (often sitting inside a house) and the parked car, tricking the vehicle into thinking the key is right beside the door.
"How Code Grabbers Work
"Modern vehicles rely on encrypted radio signals for remote locking and passive keyless entry. Depending on the vehicle's security system, interception devices operate in three primary ways:
Signal Interception and Replay. On older vehicles that use static (fixed) codes, a grabber simply records the RF signal when the owner presses the unlock button and replays that exact signal later to open the doors.
RollJam Attacks. Newer cars use "rolling codes" that generate a new, single-use encrypted code every time the fob is pressed. To bypass this, a RollJam device simultaneously jams the signal so the car does not unlock while recording the first valid code. When the driver presses the button a second time, the device captures the second code and broadcasts the first code to unlock the car, leaving the attacker with an unused, valid code for later.
And then there's the related subject of thefts from your driveway at home. I believe some people put their car keys in a Faraday Cage at home to defeat this one.
Relay Attacks. Often grouped with code grabbers, relay boxes do not store or decode signals. Instead, two devices work together to bridge the physical distance between a passive keyless entry fob (often sitting inside a house) and the parked car, tricking the vehicle into thinking the key is right beside the door.
I believe there is a 5 minute window.
Forgive me if I'm not using the right words to describe how the tech is failing, but be under no illusions, it most definitely is, I genuinely am trying to be helpful. I love Porsche, I have 6 of them, but I will be selling at least some if Porsche cannot solve for this,
Needless to say customer service worse than useless 'we'll call you within 24 hours,' '3 days ago not a call, email, carrier pigeon nothing!
funny how when you're a buyer the service seems a little better !!!
Forgive me if I'm not using the right words to describe how the tech is failing, but be under no illusions, it most definitely is, I genuinely am trying to be helpful. I love Porsche, I have 6 of them, but I will be selling at least some if Porsche cannot solve for this,
Needless to say customer service worse than useless 'we'll call you within 24 hours,' '3 days ago not a call, email, carrier pigeon nothing!
funny how when you're a buyer the service seems a little better !!!
gunner said:
I believe there is a 5 minute window.
Forgive me if I'm not using the right words to describe how the tech is failing, but be under no illusions, it most definitely is, I genuinely am trying to be helpful. I love Porsche, I have 6 of them, but I will be selling at least some if Porsche cannot solve for this,
Needless to say customer service worse than useless 'we'll call you within 24 hours,' '3 days ago not a call, email, carrier pigeon nothing!
funny how when you're a buyer the service seems a little better !!!
If you're intending any form of wireless comms to be completely unhackable, then don't buy any modern car.Forgive me if I'm not using the right words to describe how the tech is failing, but be under no illusions, it most definitely is, I genuinely am trying to be helpful. I love Porsche, I have 6 of them, but I will be selling at least some if Porsche cannot solve for this,
Needless to say customer service worse than useless 'we'll call you within 24 hours,' '3 days ago not a call, email, carrier pigeon nothing!
funny how when you're a buyer the service seems a little better !!!
Coming across rather hyperbolic, recognise the shock and loss - but have vaguely realistic expectations.
Wing mirrors being folder in does not mean it is locked. My wife recently told me my W205 C43 was not locked when she came home, I looked out the window and saw the mirrors were folded in, but when I went out to check, the door pins were up and I could open the car.
In my case, it seems I had not sure the drivers door correctly, so it folded the mirrors and armed the alarm, but did not lock the doors.
In my case, it seems I had not sure the drivers door correctly, so it folded the mirrors and armed the alarm, but did not lock the doors.
I thought modern cars had rolling key codes eg code used once then never again. Not possible to re-use it if so.
As another chap said probably jammed the signal and the OP didn't make sure the car was locked. I use folding wing mirrors as my check car is locked.
TX.
Edit - our mirrors only fold when locked. How can you get the mirrors folded but still unlocked when stood outside the car?
As another chap said probably jammed the signal and the OP didn't make sure the car was locked. I use folding wing mirrors as my check car is locked.
TX.
Edit - our mirrors only fold when locked. How can you get the mirrors folded but still unlocked when stood outside the car?
Edited by Terminator X on Wednesday 11th November 13:27
On my car the mirrors don't fold but the indicators blink and the door locks make a pretty noticeable sound so you know the car is locked. And when it's hot, the solenoid on the fuel filler flap makes pretty obnoxious noise too!
I'm not sure how anyone but the most careless could think the car has locked when it hasn't. So I'm not ready to discount the OP's theory out of hand.
I'm not sure how anyone but the most careless could think the car has locked when it hasn't. So I'm not ready to discount the OP's theory out of hand.
I'd agree it is almost certainly signal jamming. It is very easy to do and the kit is very cheap.
Always check for the lights flashing / mirrors folding when locking.
If you don't see the normal signs, then either lock with the key or move the car. If you have an app, you can lock it with that, as this is using the 4G / 5G network and not the 433MHz key frequency which is what they jam.
Always check for the lights flashing / mirrors folding when locking.
If you don't see the normal signs, then either lock with the key or move the car. If you have an app, you can lock it with that, as this is using the 4G / 5G network and not the 433MHz key frequency which is what they jam.
Edited by 595Heaven on Wednesday 11th November 14:42
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