Double declutch AND heel-and-toe
Discussion
Hi all,
Got my first Formula Ford test drive coming up soon, and the car owner insists that I double-declutch AND heel-and-toe on the downshifts (I guess he insists on this because it is my first open wheel race car drive he doesnt want me attempting clutchless shifts which could damage the gearbox if not performed correctly).
I understand the process for shifting down by one gear - but for shifting down multiple gears, I am a bit hazy on the process. The following sequence is what I think is correct for downshifting from 4th gear to 2nd gear using double-declutch and heel-and-toe without skipping gears:
1. Apply brake
2. Apply clutch
3. Select gearstick to neutral from 4th gear
4. Release clutch
5. Blip throttle (using heel-and-toe)
6. Apply clutch
7. Select gearstick to 3rd gear from neutral
8. Release clutch
9. Apply clutch
10. Select gearstick to neutral from 3rd gear
11. Release clutch
12. Blip throttle (using heel-and-toe)
13. Apply clutch
14. Select gearstick to 2nd gear from neutral
15. Release clutch
16. Finish braking sequence/turn into corner
Please tell me if the above sequence is correct.
He said I am not to skip gears on the downshifts on the day - so downshifting must be done in a sequential descending order, even though the gearbox is a H-gate and it is technically possible to skip them.
Thanks in advance.
>> Edited by on_edge on Wednesday 19th October 21:28
Got my first Formula Ford test drive coming up soon, and the car owner insists that I double-declutch AND heel-and-toe on the downshifts (I guess he insists on this because it is my first open wheel race car drive he doesnt want me attempting clutchless shifts which could damage the gearbox if not performed correctly).
I understand the process for shifting down by one gear - but for shifting down multiple gears, I am a bit hazy on the process. The following sequence is what I think is correct for downshifting from 4th gear to 2nd gear using double-declutch and heel-and-toe without skipping gears:
1. Apply brake
2. Apply clutch
3. Select gearstick to neutral from 4th gear
4. Release clutch
5. Blip throttle (using heel-and-toe)
6. Apply clutch
7. Select gearstick to 3rd gear from neutral
8. Release clutch
9. Apply clutch
10. Select gearstick to neutral from 3rd gear
11. Release clutch
12. Blip throttle (using heel-and-toe)
13. Apply clutch
14. Select gearstick to 2nd gear from neutral
15. Release clutch
16. Finish braking sequence/turn into corner
Please tell me if the above sequence is correct.
He said I am not to skip gears on the downshifts on the day - so downshifting must be done in a sequential descending order, even though the gearbox is a H-gate and it is technically possible to skip them.
Thanks in advance.
>> Edited by on_edge on Wednesday 19th October 21:28
on_edge said:Your sequence is right.
He said I am not to skip gears on the downshifts on the day - so downshifting must be done in a sequential descending order, even though the gearbox is a H-gate and it is technically possible to skip them.
The owner is just trying to reduce the risk of an over-rev by asking you to row down through the gears.
You should not have to double de-clutch, just heel and toe will do the trick. If its a sorted 'box you can even get away with not heeling and toeing. I used to drive an '85 Ralt F3 car, and as long as you didnt hang about between gears it was fine.
Once the car is rolling in neutral you are in trouble - cruntch city!
If you struggle with heel and toe, brake a bit earlier, and give the throttle a blip after braking to help keep those changes smooooooooooooth.
The quicker you knock it down the better.
Rossy
Once the car is rolling in neutral you are in trouble - cruntch city!
If you struggle with heel and toe, brake a bit earlier, and give the throttle a blip after braking to help keep those changes smooooooooooooth.
The quicker you knock it down the better.
Rossy
If the car owner is that fussy about your DDC / H+T routine then it sounds like the 'box isn't up to much. To go through that complete routine will surely cost time in the braking area, as I know to my own experience of trying to H+T. I wasn't getting enough pressure on the brake and people were just sailing past me, albeit this was in a FWD Saloon with Synchro box!!!
P.S. Not being able to H+T wasn't a disadvantage to a certain Mika Hakkinen. Just as long as you're quick enough to catch the rear wheels when/if they lock...
P.S. Not being able to H+T wasn't a disadvantage to a certain Mika Hakkinen. Just as long as you're quick enough to catch the rear wheels when/if they lock...
buy a video called "Driven to Win". it should be available from Duke or somewhere like Demon Tweeks.
It was made in conjunction with Mario Andretti and an American racing school. The footage and tutorials are excellent. I know of many racing drivers/track day drivers who have used it and found it of enormous value. Theere is an entire ten lap race filmed from the cockpit and also a lap showing just the drivers fewet, ok, it doesnt sound like riveting viewing but it helps you understand the principles and techniques of clutchless shifting etc.
It was made in conjunction with Mario Andretti and an American racing school. The footage and tutorials are excellent. I know of many racing drivers/track day drivers who have used it and found it of enormous value. Theere is an entire ten lap race filmed from the cockpit and also a lap showing just the drivers fewet, ok, it doesnt sound like riveting viewing but it helps you understand the principles and techniques of clutchless shifting etc.
I try to follow this procedure for regular shifting WITH syncros in a 96 M3. Am I wrong for doing that? Although generally I coast and brake to stop lights. For sporty driving braking later towards the corner this is what I do. My understanding was if you left the clutch pressed in and blipped there were 'mechanicals' not catching up to speed.
good practice anyway. I don't think I'm damaging anything and it will help if I ever go to a crash box.
good practice anyway. I don't think I'm damaging anything and it will help if I ever go to a crash box.
If you have working synchromesh then double-declutching is pretty much a waste of time. I think it's something that is best avoided unless you *have* to do it (due to no synchro) because it increases the complexity and duration of the gear change, and compromises your steering and braking control, at a critical time when you should be concentrating on other things.
I completely understand your friend insisting that you don't do clutchless gear changes. Encouraging you to use heel-and-toe is OK if you're comfortable with the technique and can do it reliably in that car, but really your first drive in a single seater is not the place to learn. Doing it badly is far worse than not doing it at all. If you aren't comfortable doing it then just make the time to get the braking out of the way before you change down, coast during the gear change and blip the throttle to match revs. What is vitally important is that you do match the revs on down shifts, whether you coast while you do it, or use heel-and-toe to do it. It's a good idea to feed the clutch in gradually when you select the new gear to reduce the effect if you don't manage to match revs perfectly - and you probably won't, in a strange car.
Double declutching may be necessary on downshifts if you have a knackered synchro box or a delicate dog box. Otherwise an ordinary clutch gear change is fine.
You will not need to double declutch on up shifts under any circumstances. I don't think your friend is suggesting you should, but if he does then give him a red card.
I completely understand your friend insisting that you don't do clutchless gear changes. Encouraging you to use heel-and-toe is OK if you're comfortable with the technique and can do it reliably in that car, but really your first drive in a single seater is not the place to learn. Doing it badly is far worse than not doing it at all. If you aren't comfortable doing it then just make the time to get the braking out of the way before you change down, coast during the gear change and blip the throttle to match revs. What is vitally important is that you do match the revs on down shifts, whether you coast while you do it, or use heel-and-toe to do it. It's a good idea to feed the clutch in gradually when you select the new gear to reduce the effect if you don't manage to match revs perfectly - and you probably won't, in a strange car.
Double declutching may be necessary on downshifts if you have a knackered synchro box or a delicate dog box. Otherwise an ordinary clutch gear change is fine.
You will not need to double declutch on up shifts under any circumstances. I don't think your friend is suggesting you should, but if he does then give him a red card.
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