Are we all mad?
Discussion
Buying any performance car is an act of madness. It's a mad idea to begin with, designed by lunatics, built by retards and traded by mentalists. But they're all completely sane compared to the people who go out and buy them.
Why?
A ford focus is better in the real world in all but whatever driving pleasure is (oh and I suppose pose value). The scary thing is, that sort of car is by no means awful to drive these days.
Ford focus or similar the pros - cheap to buy, run, insure, look after, service, the lot, obviously enough. The depreciation in real money terms is pretty low. It's unlikely to get nicked. You won't care if it gets scratched, you can give your friends a lift, you can park them easily, they take stacks of shopping and old shit to the tip. To top it all they're quite fun to drive on an empty road. Most will get near 120mph and but the good thing is they're not too quick over 100 so there's a better chance of keeping your licence.
cons - lots around, feeling on anonymity, er... plasitcky interior... mmm, struggling here...
If any of us had half a functioning brain we'd all drive a decent, cheap, second-hand hatch. Apparently the Clio 182 is even a corker to drive!
Supercars are nothing but worry. Worry about costs, about it being nicked, about your licence, about some idiot will scratching it, worrying it'll spin in the wet. And we pay properly through the nose for this. All for that one moment where you know there are no cameras around, when everyone else is hungover in bed on a Saturday morning, when the road is clear and we can access that extra performance for a couple of gears. Of course there are other benefits, but personally I don't see them that way. A supercar says 'I'm different' or 'I'm successful' or just plain 'notice me dammit' for some I suppose, but I question the worth of spending big money for that. For every person that says 'cool' 5 say 'twat', at least in the UK anyway.
So buying a supercar is a supreme act of madness - yes that even goes for a Porsche. But the great thing about TVR is that the cars are appropriately bonkers. They are the most hatstand car company left. The purest, most unadulterated contraptions around for the purpose of having a good time behind the wheel. Ferrari, Porsche heck even Lambo are all trying to make more sensible cars. Why? Sensible is Golf TDi. No Porsche will ever be as good a vehicle as a Golf TDi other than for that mythical cross continent blast in a world without police. On top of that the Golf won't need to stop for fuel as many times so it may well get you to Monaco quicker. Sensible is what happened to the acheingly gorgeous Boxster prototype when it ended up as the bland, limp wristed, committee-designed production version. I'm sure it's a great car, I also love convertibles (as even cheap ones offer something ford foci don't as yet) but they are just too hair dressery for me. And I just don't love the way they look.
Wasting all money on a sports car only makes any kind of warped sense to me when it's an act of passion. Of lifelong pent up car lust boiling over and overpowering the sensible parts of the brain. That's what's daft and wonderful at the same time - and life enhancing. Reason is important but boring. It's what gets you from one life affirming moment to the next one. The only use for being sensible with money is so that we can do something daft and enjoyable with it one day. Going beyond the sensible thing to do, buying a TVR not a TDi, going to the Caribbean when Spain is just as hot, is when we're really living.
This is why I'd never buy a sports car I didn't really, badly want. A friend of mine has a good philosophy. Spend twice the money and get the thing you really wanted. Half the money is still a lot of money for second best, in fact it's a bigger waste. ie you want a 5k gold rolex but you get a steel one for 2.5k. 2.5k is still a ton of money and you still want the gold one.
Contrary to what some people believe this is why I wouldn't trade my Sagaris for anything Porsche or Ferrari currently make. Really. If I had enough money I'd have a Carrera GT (even porsche designers can let their hair down a bit) too but if I could afford one of those, I could afford to keep my Sagaris.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've come a long way, via a lot of different cars to get to TVR ownership. They are no poor mans porsche for me.
But I'm not alone. A good friend of mine sold a Porsche 996 he bought new for a Lotus Exige. He has more fun in the Exige. It's more focused. The Porsche's great strength is also it's great weakness. It's such a great allrounder it's the jack of all trades thing. For a very, very expensive car it just wasn't wild or crazy enough. It didn't thrill enough in any one area. It did everything well but it was a master on none.
TVRs on the other hand are the maddest cars on the planet in all but price tag! Lets hope Smolensky keeps them that way.
Why?
A ford focus is better in the real world in all but whatever driving pleasure is (oh and I suppose pose value). The scary thing is, that sort of car is by no means awful to drive these days.
Ford focus or similar the pros - cheap to buy, run, insure, look after, service, the lot, obviously enough. The depreciation in real money terms is pretty low. It's unlikely to get nicked. You won't care if it gets scratched, you can give your friends a lift, you can park them easily, they take stacks of shopping and old shit to the tip. To top it all they're quite fun to drive on an empty road. Most will get near 120mph and but the good thing is they're not too quick over 100 so there's a better chance of keeping your licence.
cons - lots around, feeling on anonymity, er... plasitcky interior... mmm, struggling here...
If any of us had half a functioning brain we'd all drive a decent, cheap, second-hand hatch. Apparently the Clio 182 is even a corker to drive!
Supercars are nothing but worry. Worry about costs, about it being nicked, about your licence, about some idiot will scratching it, worrying it'll spin in the wet. And we pay properly through the nose for this. All for that one moment where you know there are no cameras around, when everyone else is hungover in bed on a Saturday morning, when the road is clear and we can access that extra performance for a couple of gears. Of course there are other benefits, but personally I don't see them that way. A supercar says 'I'm different' or 'I'm successful' or just plain 'notice me dammit' for some I suppose, but I question the worth of spending big money for that. For every person that says 'cool' 5 say 'twat', at least in the UK anyway.
So buying a supercar is a supreme act of madness - yes that even goes for a Porsche. But the great thing about TVR is that the cars are appropriately bonkers. They are the most hatstand car company left. The purest, most unadulterated contraptions around for the purpose of having a good time behind the wheel. Ferrari, Porsche heck even Lambo are all trying to make more sensible cars. Why? Sensible is Golf TDi. No Porsche will ever be as good a vehicle as a Golf TDi other than for that mythical cross continent blast in a world without police. On top of that the Golf won't need to stop for fuel as many times so it may well get you to Monaco quicker. Sensible is what happened to the acheingly gorgeous Boxster prototype when it ended up as the bland, limp wristed, committee-designed production version. I'm sure it's a great car, I also love convertibles (as even cheap ones offer something ford foci don't as yet) but they are just too hair dressery for me. And I just don't love the way they look.
Wasting all money on a sports car only makes any kind of warped sense to me when it's an act of passion. Of lifelong pent up car lust boiling over and overpowering the sensible parts of the brain. That's what's daft and wonderful at the same time - and life enhancing. Reason is important but boring. It's what gets you from one life affirming moment to the next one. The only use for being sensible with money is so that we can do something daft and enjoyable with it one day. Going beyond the sensible thing to do, buying a TVR not a TDi, going to the Caribbean when Spain is just as hot, is when we're really living.
This is why I'd never buy a sports car I didn't really, badly want. A friend of mine has a good philosophy. Spend twice the money and get the thing you really wanted. Half the money is still a lot of money for second best, in fact it's a bigger waste. ie you want a 5k gold rolex but you get a steel one for 2.5k. 2.5k is still a ton of money and you still want the gold one.
Contrary to what some people believe this is why I wouldn't trade my Sagaris for anything Porsche or Ferrari currently make. Really. If I had enough money I'd have a Carrera GT (even porsche designers can let their hair down a bit) too but if I could afford one of those, I could afford to keep my Sagaris.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've come a long way, via a lot of different cars to get to TVR ownership. They are no poor mans porsche for me.
But I'm not alone. A good friend of mine sold a Porsche 996 he bought new for a Lotus Exige. He has more fun in the Exige. It's more focused. The Porsche's great strength is also it's great weakness. It's such a great allrounder it's the jack of all trades thing. For a very, very expensive car it just wasn't wild or crazy enough. It didn't thrill enough in any one area. It did everything well but it was a master on none.
TVRs on the other hand are the maddest cars on the planet in all but price tag! Lets hope Smolensky keeps them that way.
One day, possibly relatively soon, we won't be able to drive cars that we do today. Either through legislation, cost, "progress", possibly linked to diminishing oil supplies, possibly due to "safety" and probably due to overcrowding.
I felt that about bikes 10-15 years ago. I now feel it about cars.
Answer?
JFDI!
(But yes, we're all mad!!!
)
I felt that about bikes 10-15 years ago. I now feel it about cars.
Answer?
JFDI!
(But yes, we're all mad!!!
)I would think most people who have a sports car, probably have a sensible car as well..
I have a toy..(well 2 a moment)
My wife has a toy.. (as well as the ones in her bedside cabinet
)
And we have a family car, our family car is a Grand Voyager Ltd with all bells and whistles.
The Voyager is the most practical, most comfortable, most economical, easiest to drive of the lot, and has the best sound system. But I don't get any pleasure from driving it. I do drive it, but in a mundane way.!
I get pleasure driving my toy, whatever it is at the time.. think this sums it up.
Rob
I have a toy..(well 2 a moment)
My wife has a toy.. (as well as the ones in her bedside cabinet
) And we have a family car, our family car is a Grand Voyager Ltd with all bells and whistles.
The Voyager is the most practical, most comfortable, most economical, easiest to drive of the lot, and has the best sound system. But I don't get any pleasure from driving it. I do drive it, but in a mundane way.!
I get pleasure driving my toy, whatever it is at the time.. think this sums it up.
Rob
The main reason i bought my T350 was purely its looks. Nothing compares to it IMO, its just a beautiful object. Yes, it goes really fast too, but personally i'm not hugely fussed about driving really fast.
Not knocking porsches etc, but having been in a few, i don't find the interiors anything special or different from some cheaper family cars. That's what makes TVR's and other similar cars (nobles etc.) that bit special, because they really are different.
But then i am totally mad.
Not knocking porsches etc, but having been in a few, i don't find the interiors anything special or different from some cheaper family cars. That's what makes TVR's and other similar cars (nobles etc.) that bit special, because they really are different.
But then i am totally mad.
Great post that. It's funny as I drive a Focus at the moment. It does EVERYTHING I want it to. However, I'm constantly trying to justify something nuts just to make even the drive to Tescos an adventure. Only thing thats keeping me back is insurance the moment. But it makes that fateful day even sweeter when I finally do get one 
rico said:
Great post that. It's funny as I drive a Focus at the moment. It does EVERYTHING I want it to. However, I'm constantly trying to justify something nuts just to make even the drive to Tescos an adventure. Only thing thats keeping me back is insurance the moment. But it makes that fateful day even sweeter when I finally do get one
I went from a focus to a T350c and I have never looked back
Lifes to short for maybes.
the pits said:
Buying any performance car is an act of madness. It's a mad idea to begin with, designed by lunatics, built by retards and traded by mentalists. .
The guys in the factory are going to love that Pits
the pits said:
Ford focus or similar the pros - cheap to buy, run, insure, look after, service, the lot, obviously enough. The depreciation in real money terms is pretty low. It's unlikely to get nicked. You won't care if it gets scratched, you can give your friends a lift, you can park them easily, they take stacks of shopping and old shit to the tip. To top it all they're quite fun to drive on an empty road. Most will get near 120mph and but the good thing is they're not too quick over 100 so there's a better chance of keeping your licence.
If any of us had half a functioning brain we'd all drive a decent, cheap, second-hand hatch. .
Yes I totally agree
When we had the Cerb and I didn't drive it much, I always wanted my own Griff.
I had a Triumph Spitfire in my younger days and loved the 'roof off' experience.
Ray's hayfever (really bad) means we have to have a hard top, but I always wanted my own bit of 'fast fun'
Now we have the Sagaris which I drive just as much as he does (even more probably due to my blats out whilst he's at work
) and now I really don't feel the need to go to the expense of running and maintaining a Griff...which would have been mainly for town stuff, parked at Tescos more often than I would like and parked at night on the drive. In fact, I have my eye on the Nissan Micra Convertible that is to be launched middle of November.
Cheap to buy, run, insure, service, loads of boot space, big doors and lots of space for mums to get in and out and a HUGE +..... the roof down and up at the touch of a button...24 seconds
the pits said:
Supercars are nothing but worry. ....All for that one moment where you know there are no cameras around, ......, when the road is clear and we can access that extra performance for a couple of gears.
For every person that says 'cool' 5 say 'twat', at least in the UK anyway. .
I don't agree with that last bit.......I have always had the impression from the reactions we get that most people love the TVRs.
If there is the odd one, his mouth may be saying 'twat' but I bet that's not what he's thinking!
the pits said:
Wasting all money on a sports car only makes any kind of warped sense to me when it's an act of passion. Of lifelong pent up car lust boiling over and overpowering the sensible parts of the brain.
it's an act of passion. I am now at that time in life to have seen too many of my relatives say they are saving to live it up and enjoy life when they retire.
Trouble is, a lot of them didn't make it that far!
Sod that...we decided some time ago that we would live for the moment, whilst trying to look to the future.
Buying and running an expensive sports car seems a huge waste of money to our older relatives many of whom had nothing when they were kids.
My dad,(81, eldest of 13 and who didn't have a pair of shoes till he was 12), nearly fell off his chair when I told him how much we paid for the Sagaris and that wasn't because he doesn't have any money now, he owns several properties so he's okay, but it was just the fact that it was spent on a car...and not put into something which could bring us a return.
I really enjoy our TVR and I don't begrudge the money it costs to run. ................
YP
>> Edited by yellow peril on Friday 21st October 08:13
Pits...you've been hanging around me far too much
My parents think I am mad, but then my mother would rather I owned a Corsa when I bought the Mx as my first car. When I bought the Griff after the MG got totalled, she said why didnt I buy a new Mx5. Now I have the 'Gris and she is still saying but you could be running round in an Mx5. As far as other ppl are concerned the goalposts move to suit their argument.
Am I mad? Not really, I can afford it. The risk of the cost of ownership is covered financially, even if it is expensive. So even though it is expensive, the financial aspect doesnt bother me. What does it give me? Huge, massive enjoyment. It makes me happy. I refuse to apologise or have to justify to anybody spending my money to make me happy.
Am I mad? I run something that makes me happy and I can afford it. No, sorry Im not. What would be mad to me...is not doing it.
Now then...what *is* mad is getting ever so slightly annoyed with the Germans. Ive never really cared about the Macca's performance records before, but well...I do now. Yes, I know EB is French, but bollox to it, we all know it is a VW and the damn thing was conceived purely out of pride, ego and one upmanship and has cost millions. The spirit of the thing irritates me...and that is a very dumb thing to do to an Englishmen, esp. an English engineer. From Blackpool. We have a tradition about doings about that up here ...and I dont just mean Bristol Ave.
So Ive been thinking
1900kg? So, its a fat lardy arse b@stard then. That annoys me.
TC,4wd, toys? Annoying me more.
£4000 milled ally/mag alloy interior? Handcrafted leather costing thousands? Yep, defo annoyed.
4 turbos?
8ltrs?
16 cylinders? Getting really brassed off now.
£800k ??? wtf are they kidding?
Right then. I know you can get about 600BHP from Supercharging the S6 relatively safely now. The over-heating stuff was sorted out quite a while ago, despite rumours & stories to the contrary.
1060kg for a Sagais? Pits, sod the carbon fibre bonnet, make it an entire body and lets get saving weight. Strip the full leather interior out, lightweight alcantara covering only. Lotus stylee. Dump the carpets. Dump the spyders, lightweight wheels pls.
What I dont know is how much weight supercharging and cooling the S6 added. Im pretty confident however, that 1000Kg can achieved. Going to have to junk the gearbox arent we? Replace it with the T56 unit is it? Hmmm, how about we go a different track and shove a zeroshift unit in? OK, so maybe weight ends up back around 1060kg anyway...still 600 horses.
Making it handle. Is anybody seriously telling me that with the suspension and chassis expertise in this country that we couldnt make it handle? No, I didnt think so either.
Aeros. Pish easy. Lose the Gruney flap, make it electro hydraulic, speed sensitive. It can be made adjustable quite easy and the AoA ECU controlled operating under some relatively simple Control Laws. Meat and drink. Hmm, could maybe even do that with an active front splitter also, again relatively simple to do with software. The rear diffuser needs some work on it I think, needs tidying up, not a massive problem. Im sure we can do something with the axe cuts also
Overall, Im fairly sure we can get the cd figure lower, but maybe the weight figure creeps a little higher again, ok so we can give ourselves upto 1100KG with our extra power.
Now then, imagine that and the kind of performance and drivability you would get. Price tag...£100k. Maccas become breakfast and Veyrons fair game. Would it sell...? Like Mike Bassett voodoo dolls!
Sorry about all that...I was just thinking last night and that is always a bad thing! The Veyron just annoys me thats all.
My parents think I am mad, but then my mother would rather I owned a Corsa when I bought the Mx as my first car. When I bought the Griff after the MG got totalled, she said why didnt I buy a new Mx5. Now I have the 'Gris and she is still saying but you could be running round in an Mx5. As far as other ppl are concerned the goalposts move to suit their argument.
Am I mad? Not really, I can afford it. The risk of the cost of ownership is covered financially, even if it is expensive. So even though it is expensive, the financial aspect doesnt bother me. What does it give me? Huge, massive enjoyment. It makes me happy. I refuse to apologise or have to justify to anybody spending my money to make me happy.
Am I mad? I run something that makes me happy and I can afford it. No, sorry Im not. What would be mad to me...is not doing it.
Now then...what *is* mad is getting ever so slightly annoyed with the Germans. Ive never really cared about the Macca's performance records before, but well...I do now. Yes, I know EB is French, but bollox to it, we all know it is a VW and the damn thing was conceived purely out of pride, ego and one upmanship and has cost millions. The spirit of the thing irritates me...and that is a very dumb thing to do to an Englishmen, esp. an English engineer. From Blackpool. We have a tradition about doings about that up here ...and I dont just mean Bristol Ave.
So Ive been thinking
1900kg? So, its a fat lardy arse b@stard then. That annoys me.
TC,4wd, toys? Annoying me more.
£4000 milled ally/mag alloy interior? Handcrafted leather costing thousands? Yep, defo annoyed.
4 turbos?
8ltrs?
16 cylinders? Getting really brassed off now.
£800k ??? wtf are they kidding?
Right then. I know you can get about 600BHP from Supercharging the S6 relatively safely now. The over-heating stuff was sorted out quite a while ago, despite rumours & stories to the contrary.
1060kg for a Sagais? Pits, sod the carbon fibre bonnet, make it an entire body and lets get saving weight. Strip the full leather interior out, lightweight alcantara covering only. Lotus stylee. Dump the carpets. Dump the spyders, lightweight wheels pls.
What I dont know is how much weight supercharging and cooling the S6 added. Im pretty confident however, that 1000Kg can achieved. Going to have to junk the gearbox arent we? Replace it with the T56 unit is it? Hmmm, how about we go a different track and shove a zeroshift unit in? OK, so maybe weight ends up back around 1060kg anyway...still 600 horses.
Making it handle. Is anybody seriously telling me that with the suspension and chassis expertise in this country that we couldnt make it handle? No, I didnt think so either.
Aeros. Pish easy. Lose the Gruney flap, make it electro hydraulic, speed sensitive. It can be made adjustable quite easy and the AoA ECU controlled operating under some relatively simple Control Laws. Meat and drink. Hmm, could maybe even do that with an active front splitter also, again relatively simple to do with software. The rear diffuser needs some work on it I think, needs tidying up, not a massive problem. Im sure we can do something with the axe cuts also
Overall, Im fairly sure we can get the cd figure lower, but maybe the weight figure creeps a little higher again, ok so we can give ourselves upto 1100KG with our extra power.
Now then, imagine that and the kind of performance and drivability you would get. Price tag...£100k. Maccas become breakfast and Veyrons fair game. Would it sell...? Like Mike Bassett voodoo dolls!
Sorry about all that...I was just thinking last night and that is always a bad thing! The Veyron just annoys me thats all.
100k Carbon Sagaris with 600bhp and active aerodynamics?
Well they say madness is close to genius.
I like to think Peter Wheeler might just have entertained the idea but I fear Smolensky wants to get a bit sensible with TVR.
I still think the best car in the world argument can only be won by something like the focus or maybe it's Golf tDi. Taking into account costs, ease of ownership, breadth of ability. It just can't be a Porsche.
It has to be entered in the 'worlds most enjoyable car' catagory and that can only be subjective. Notice that no German car could ever be entered into the 'world's most hilarious car' catagory. That has to go to the Rolls Royce Corniche convertible. Close second has to be the 450 SEAC.
As already stated I'd love a Carrera GT, personally I'd take it over an Enzo given the hypothetical chance. So I don't hate Porsches per say but I'd never buy a rear engined 911 and know their success is based on their all round appeal, durability and percieved depreciation. Oh and of course the badge. But for me a 911 is a great compromise if you want to own just the one car. It's just not special enough or desirable enough (for me) as a fulfillment of a childhood dream. The Sagaris is the car I tried to draw on my pencil case in maths lessons, only better.
Some people here can't accept that I would rather have my Sagaris (or any current TVR for that matter) to any Porsche bar the Carrera GT. I don't know why this would be a problem for them but they'll just have to lump it!
>> Edited by the pits on Friday 21st October 11:04
Doubt it would compete? Higher power-to-weight ratio. Im sure as hell I could get a better aero shape than VW managed and I know I could work the aero's better.
Now then, how about a twin screw set up? Wonder how much heat 2 blowers would be putting out?))
Traction control. Yes I know you are all running for hills, but bear me out. It doesnt have to add the weight conventional mechanical systems do. Do it the same way F1 does...actually the logical way...and cut power from the engine. It is relatively pish easy to do, as is launch control. The software used to do this stuff in F1 is actually pretty damn lousy stuff. It is badly written, badly developed and basically rush and hack job. Why do you think they always used to fail and its taken em 2 yrs to get the code working properly? Anyway, the software side is relatively pish easy there.
Now think about that. All these car manufacturers talking about F1 derived technology in their cars. World leading, etc, etc. TVR are so anachronistic, etc, etc.
In one feel swoop (and relatively cheap and easy) you leapfrog the lot *and* you get to say it is better developed and more robust software. It adds very little weight, it is cutting edge and *entirely* switchable purely at the software level. You can alter the engine management settings yourself as the driver.
Having to stop the car and press a button before high speed runs? Ha!
M Power button on the M5 to access high power? Ha!
Funky E-Diff Ferrari swtich? Ha!
Sidestep and leapfrog the lot.
All on software and all developed to flight control software standard...which I might add are a hell of a lot higher than any other development standard in industry, i.e. it is developed to a standard that says it can *never* fail.
Oh and it is still a foot narrower than an Veyron.
Madness and genius? Wouldnt know old boy, Im just an old fashioned British engineer working in a high tech industry with a hankering for beer mats and pencils...
Now then, how about a twin screw set up? Wonder how much heat 2 blowers would be putting out?
)) Traction control. Yes I know you are all running for hills, but bear me out. It doesnt have to add the weight conventional mechanical systems do. Do it the same way F1 does...actually the logical way...and cut power from the engine. It is relatively pish easy to do, as is launch control. The software used to do this stuff in F1 is actually pretty damn lousy stuff. It is badly written, badly developed and basically rush and hack job. Why do you think they always used to fail and its taken em 2 yrs to get the code working properly? Anyway, the software side is relatively pish easy there.
Now think about that. All these car manufacturers talking about F1 derived technology in their cars. World leading, etc, etc. TVR are so anachronistic, etc, etc.
In one feel swoop (and relatively cheap and easy) you leapfrog the lot *and* you get to say it is better developed and more robust software. It adds very little weight, it is cutting edge and *entirely* switchable purely at the software level. You can alter the engine management settings yourself as the driver.
Having to stop the car and press a button before high speed runs? Ha!
M Power button on the M5 to access high power? Ha!
Funky E-Diff Ferrari swtich? Ha!
Sidestep and leapfrog the lot.
All on software and all developed to flight control software standard...which I might add are a hell of a lot higher than any other development standard in industry, i.e. it is developed to a standard that says it can *never* fail.
Oh and it is still a foot narrower than an Veyron.
Madness and genius? Wouldnt know old boy, Im just an old fashioned British engineer working in a high tech industry with a hankering for beer mats and pencils...
DJC said:
Doubt it would compete? Higher power-to-weight ratio. Im sure as hell I could get a better aero shape than VW managed and I know I could work the aero's better.
180kg's of downforce on the veyron and a cd of .36 (probably high due to having to cool everything down and the aerodynamics creating drag as well as downforce. VW have spent millions and millions on this, how are you so confident you can do better, perhaps you should've let them know at prototype stage?
DJC said:
Traction control. Yes I know you are all running for hills, but bear me out. It doesnt have to add the weight conventional mechanical systems do.
What convential mechanical traction control system exist? LSD is all I can think of, unless you are talking about 4wd (urghh).
DJC said:
Do it the same way F1 does...actually the logical way...and cut power from the engine.
As road cars have done for years you mean? BMW's can pulse the clutch too when in launch control mode so as not to bog down the engine.
DJC said:
It is relatively pish easy to do, as is launch control. The software used to do this stuff in F1 is actually pretty damn lousy stuff. It is badly written, badly developed and basically rush and hack job. Why do you think they always used to fail and its taken em 2 yrs to get the code working properly? Anyway, the software side is relatively pish easy there.
I have notified Ross Brawn, expect a call in the next few days
DJC said:
In one feel swoop (and relatively cheap and easy) you leapfrog the lot *and* you get to say it is better developed and more robust software. It adds very little weight,
The software in my car for traction and launch control is really heavy come to think of it
DJC said:
it is cutting edge and *entirely* switchable purely at the software level.
Like all other forms of electronic traction control then.
DJC said:
You can alter the engine management settings yourself as the driver.
Why would you want to? Just put the optimal map on in the first place or risk people blowing the engine up by running too lean etc, mind you, different modes for different driving would be handy (like the p400/p500 button in the M5 perhaps).
DJC said:
Having to stop the car and press a button before high speed runs? Ha!
M Power button on the M5 to access high power? Ha!
Funky E-Diff Ferrari swtich? Ha!
The Ferrari and M5 both have electronics far in advance of you suggesting electronic traction control though? Assume the Veyron does too but is 4wd so we cannot count it as a proper car :P
Which MBE does the sagaris use? The MBE on the Noble has some features that are not used, certainly some MBE units are capable of launch control as is.
Racelogic also do traction control that allows you to choose the amount of slip before intervention :
m12_nathan said:
Doubt it would compete? Higher power-to-weight ratio. Im sure as hell I could get a better aero shape than VW managed and I know I could work the aero's better.
180kg's of downforce on the veyron and a cd of .36 (probably high due to having to cool everything down and the aerodynamics creating drag as well as downforce. VW have spent millions and millions on this, how are you so confident you can do better, perhaps you should've let them know at prototype stage?
DJC said:
Because its my job and we spend billions, not millions.
What car companies know and spend about aeros, my collection of little boys n girls know and can spend in about 2 weeks before a phase clearance. VW are p1shing in the wind compared to us. Oh the CD is inherently high largely due to the width of a the car. Lower and wider will alamost always produce a naturally less efficient shape have taller and narrower. It is the reason why the Sagaris has a higher cd than you would think also...not the great big barndoor stuck on the back.
DJC said:
Traction control. Yes I know you are all running for hills, but bear me out. It doesnt have to add the weight conventional mechanical systems do.
What convential mechanical traction control system exist? LSD is all I can think of, unless you are talking about 4wd (urghh).
DJC said:
Do it the same way F1 does...actually the logical way...and cut power from the engine.
As road cars have done for years you mean? BMW's can pulse the clutch too when in launch control mode so as not to bog down the engine.
DJC said:
Gah no. Crude crude crude!
[/quote=DJC]
DJC said:
It is relatively pish easy to do, as is launch control. The software used to do this stuff in F1 is actually pretty damn lousy stuff. It is badly written, badly developed and basically rush and hack job. Why do you think they always used to fail and its taken em 2 yrs to get the code working properly? Anyway, the software side is relatively pish easy there.
I have notified Ross Brawn, expect a call in the next few days
DJC said:
I doubt you have and we have lost numerous members of the team over the yrs to the F1 boys. In fact the only places guys (or in the case of the last one a girl) who leave us tend to go are into motorsport or r&d in the car firms. Why? Because generally speaking we are lightys ahead of them...as has been the case for the last 100yrs. As the 2 industies are currently structured, it is the nature of the business, however, that will change over the next 20yrs, *much* to detriment of UK engineering. How much, the govt has no idea yet, but it will decimate hi-tech engineering in this country.
DJC said:
In one feel swoop (and relatively cheap and easy) you leapfrog the lot *and* you get to say it is better developed and more robust software. It adds very little weight,
The software in my car for traction and launch control is really heavy come to think of it
DJC said:
The software that does it is developed to rubbish standards and it *will*up.
DJC said:
it is cutting edge and *entirely* switchable purely at the software level.
Like all other forms of electronic traction control then.
DJC said:
To the best of my knowledge they arent.
DJC said:
You can alter the engine management settings yourself as the driver.
Why would you want to? Just put the optimal map on in the first place or risk people blowing the engine up by running too lean etc, mind you, different modes for different driving would be handy (like the p400/p500 button in the M5 perhaps).
DJC said:
I was thinking of something like that exactly. How many Speed Six owners would it maybe have saved if they could have run their car at a much less stressed level 90% of the time and then popped the button when they wanted fun?
Otherwise why would you want to? Because you can! Its kewl, its fun! Its racecary and as we all know...that sells!
DJC said:
Having to stop the car and press a button before high speed runs? Ha!
M Power button on the M5 to access high power? Ha!
Funky E-Diff Ferrari swtich? Ha!
The Ferrari and M5 both have electronics far in advance of you suggesting electronic traction control though? Assume the Veyron does too but is 4wd so we cannot count it as a proper car :P
[quote=DJC]
Nooooooooo! They dont! There is *nothing* advanced whatsoever about what they have! Oh they are advanced in terms of what the general public thinks and they are advanced in terms of electronics and software in cars, but in other terms...they have just stopped living in caves!
Which MBE does the sagaris use? The MBE on the Noble has some features that are not used, certainly some MBE units are capable of launch control as is.
Racelogic also do traction control that allows you to choose the amount of slip before intervention :
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