High End Hifi - A load of old ********
Discussion
Trawling through fleabay looking for a cheap amp to put in the 'shed' I came across an advert for a power amplifier. I had to read it several times before I could read all the way through without laughing.
With comments like,
"the contrast in sonic presentation was quite dramatic"
:rolleyes: it sounds better than an Amstrad then? Or
"this Croft duo seems to strip away veils and deliver an astonishingly tangible presence, with superb voice reproduction, and exceptional stereo focus, transparency and dynamic drama."
:rolleyes: Its a fookin power amp ffs, simply, a torroidal transformer, a big fuck off rectifier, some quality capacitors and some heavy cable, in a metal box. Its not even a poweful amp either at 30w per channel.
All working amplifiers do "voice reproduction" and what about "exceptional stereo focus"? whaaaaaat?? It sends sound to the left and the right speakers seperatly??
[pic]http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/23/c2/e6_1_b.JPG[/pic]
Hi end source, and speakers I can understand, but an amp is an amp is an amp surely?
...and how much to buy this black box? apparently it is £1250 (or £500 if you buy it now).. and thats nothing - look at the price of a Krell amp - upto £40,000 :yikes: I don't care what hifi buffs say, you cannot justify spending that amount of money on an bloody amplifier, you will not notice the difference. People that say you do notice the difference are in shock and suffering after being severely ripped.
So is 'true' hifi a load of old bollocks sold to people with more money than sense? Why do hifi salesmen talk in this strange language, or should that be bull$hit? And do people actually part with insane amounts of money for supposedly superdooper gear when it can be had for sensible money? Also this report was taken from a well known Hifi magazine, so I presume these twats are also on the payroll from the big audio companies to write reports.
Rant over
[url]full ebay ad|http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Croft-Series-5-C-Power-amplifier-ex-demo-black-NO-RES_W0QQitemZ5818242396QQcategoryZ3280QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
Forget the three grand for a tv saga surely this is worse :eek:
With comments like,
"the contrast in sonic presentation was quite dramatic"
:rolleyes: it sounds better than an Amstrad then? Or
"this Croft duo seems to strip away veils and deliver an astonishingly tangible presence, with superb voice reproduction, and exceptional stereo focus, transparency and dynamic drama."
:rolleyes: Its a fookin power amp ffs, simply, a torroidal transformer, a big fuck off rectifier, some quality capacitors and some heavy cable, in a metal box. Its not even a poweful amp either at 30w per channel.
All working amplifiers do "voice reproduction" and what about "exceptional stereo focus"? whaaaaaat?? It sends sound to the left and the right speakers seperatly??
[pic]http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/23/c2/e6_1_b.JPG[/pic]
Hi end source, and speakers I can understand, but an amp is an amp is an amp surely?
...and how much to buy this black box? apparently it is £1250 (or £500 if you buy it now).. and thats nothing - look at the price of a Krell amp - upto £40,000 :yikes: I don't care what hifi buffs say, you cannot justify spending that amount of money on an bloody amplifier, you will not notice the difference. People that say you do notice the difference are in shock and suffering after being severely ripped.
So is 'true' hifi a load of old bollocks sold to people with more money than sense? Why do hifi salesmen talk in this strange language, or should that be bull$hit? And do people actually part with insane amounts of money for supposedly superdooper gear when it can be had for sensible money? Also this report was taken from a well known Hifi magazine, so I presume these twats are also on the payroll from the big audio companies to write reports.
Rant over
[url]full ebay ad|http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Croft-Series-5-C-Power-amplifier-ex-demo-black-NO-RES_W0QQitemZ5818242396QQcategoryZ3280QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
Forget the three grand for a tv saga surely this is worse :eek:
tomtom said:
Normally I'd agree with you, but moving from an entry level amp to a fairly decent one in the past year, the difference is very marked even with the same speakers.
Now, high-end mains cables I'll never understand.
Ok, so how much was your new amp if you don't mind me asking?
tomtom said:
Normally I'd agree with you, but moving from an entry level amp to a fairly decent one in the past year, the difference is very marked even with the same speakers.
Now, high-end mains cables I'll never understand.
Well let me educate you.. The more expensive the cable, the more electricity you can cram into your appliance, which allows for more power and such like!
.. andy mac said:
Normally I'd agree with you, but moving from an entry level amp to a fairly decent one in the past year, the difference is very marked even with the same speakers.
Now, high-end mains cables I'll never understand.
Well let me educate you.. The more expensive the cable, the more electricity you can cram into your appliance, which allows for more power and such like!
Ah you obviously sell the stuff :
^^^^^^
I agree with that, Mr Bliar.
I don't and it was £350 (upgrade from a £200 model), give or take the odd quid. Obviously that's nowhere near a 40k amp, but the quality of the amp does make a noticeable difference.
>> Edited by tomtom on Friday 21st October 12:03
I agree with that, Mr Bliar.
ultimasimon said:
Ok, so how much was your new amp if you don't mind me asking?
I don't and it was £350 (upgrade from a £200 model), give or take the odd quid. Obviously that's nowhere near a 40k amp, but the quality of the amp does make a noticeable difference.
>> Edited by tomtom on Friday 21st October 12:03
The more time you spend listening to music the more you will notice the difference between different quality components.
Amplification is actually a tricky thing to get right, then you have to match it to your speakers, then the room.
High end hifi can get ridiculously expensive but, how much was a Mac F1?, was it really 10x better than a 911?. not really the point is it.
Amplification is actually a tricky thing to get right, then you have to match it to your speakers, then the room.
High end hifi can get ridiculously expensive but, how much was a Mac F1?, was it really 10x better than a 911?. not really the point is it.
Yes I can understand that no problem. What I cannot get my head round is people parting with upwards of £1000 for a 30 wpc power amp. Having run a large mobile disco (many years ago) and being an electronic bench tech too from the same era I just cannot see why people take all this bollox in and really believe that a £40k amp is noticibly better than a £1k amp.
Yes I would pay £350 for a high quality amp because I like my music but £40k
Also most of my rant is aimed at the techno shite wording that is used. These salesman are extraordinarily gifted in the bull$hit department.
Yes I would pay £350 for a high quality amp because I like my music but £40k
Also most of my rant is aimed at the techno shite wording that is used. These salesman are extraordinarily gifted in the bull$hit department.Yeah, and your Ultima drives the same as my Citroën ZX 1.4i. Both have four wheels with tyres, disc brakes, an engine, coil sprung independent suspension and an engine. 
'Law of dimishing returns' is the key here indeed, as in all walks of life. From the Citroën to your Ultima makes for a rather dramatic difference I'm sure you'd agree - but if you drove a Carrera GT after the Ultima, you might be lead to question the price deifference in relation to their driving characteristics...
'Law of dimishing returns' is the key here indeed, as in all walks of life. From the Citroën to your Ultima makes for a rather dramatic difference I'm sure you'd agree - but if you drove a Carrera GT after the Ultima, you might be lead to question the price deifference in relation to their driving characteristics...
ultimasimon said:
So is 'true' hifi a load of old bollox sold to people with more money than sense?
Quite often yes.
If its 'high-end' or whatever and you havent had the whole system demonstrated in your room and to your liking you dont hand over any money.
Buy with your ears and not from the technobabble the adverts spout.
>> Edited by Le TVR on Friday 21st October 12:15
I used to work for a high end speaker manufacturer.
In my experience, there is an incredible amount of BS spoken in the hi-fi world, especially by 'journalists'.
When we were development testing an amplifier, changing the manufacturer of the capacitors used in the active crossover changed the sound noticicably in blind testing. Sometimes small things do make a difference.
There is a point, that further improvements become inaudiable; however it is difficult to determine when this is, as everybody's hearing response is different.
In my experience, there is an incredible amount of BS spoken in the hi-fi world, especially by 'journalists'.
When we were development testing an amplifier, changing the manufacturer of the capacitors used in the active crossover changed the sound noticicably in blind testing. Sometimes small things do make a difference.
There is a point, that further improvements become inaudiable; however it is difficult to determine when this is, as everybody's hearing response is different.
i was looking round AVforums.co.uk when i was looking at getting a seperates system... and the amount of crp talked at times was asounding... some advocating spending upwards of £10 a metre on speaker cable (biwiring too) on home cinema systems so 5/6/7 speakers to wire up, no sub less than £400 was considered worthy...
one chap said he never went to live gigs anymore as they didnt play or sound like they did on the record.
but then there where the more down to earth guys who said that upping from cheapo wire to 4mm basic wire had an advantage (and is more robust) but above that your flogging a dead horse. The most expensive cable i got myself was £1.50 flat cable to go under the flooring to get an easier run from the back speaks to the Amp.
ok i forgot where i was going with this rant...
oh yeah.. those that go to these extraordinary lengths to get 'perfection' seem to loose sight of why they are doing it... to listen to music, but instead focus on taking apart the music to work out what is wrong with what they are hearing
one chap said he never went to live gigs anymore as they didnt play or sound like they did on the record.
but then there where the more down to earth guys who said that upping from cheapo wire to 4mm basic wire had an advantage (and is more robust) but above that your flogging a dead horse. The most expensive cable i got myself was £1.50 flat cable to go under the flooring to get an easier run from the back speaks to the Amp.
ok i forgot where i was going with this rant...
oh yeah.. those that go to these extraordinary lengths to get 'perfection' seem to loose sight of why they are doing it... to listen to music, but instead focus on taking apart the music to work out what is wrong with what they are hearing
ultimasimon said:
Yes I would pay £350 for a high quality amp because I like my music but £40k
Don't sound like techno sh*te to me - more like words trying to convey the *experience*. Not at all unlike the way Evo writes about the things that spearate a CGT and a Koenigsegg other than 0.3 seconds from naught to sixty or 0.05 lateral g in a certain corner, then...
lord summerisle said:
oh yeah.. those that go to these extraordinary lengths to get 'perfection' seem to loose sight of why they are doing it... to listen to music, but instead focus on taking apart the music to work out what is wrong with what they are hearing
This is very true in my experience. However, this could be said of people that buy one supercar after the other, can't really enjoy either of them because there's always something that grates on them (epsecially having spent so much money yadda yadda) and have forgotten that it's all about the enjoyment of driving, too...
900T-R said:
Yeah, and your Ultima drives the same as my Citroën ZX 1.4i. Both have four wheels with tyres, disc brakes, an engine, coil sprung independent suspension and an engine.
'Law of dimishing returns' is the key here indeed, as in all walks of life. From the Citroën to your Ultima makes for a rather dramatic difference I'm sure you'd agree - but if you drove a Carrera GT after the Ultima, you might be lead to question the price deifference in relation to their driving characteristics...
Yes I see you analogy but the reason I bought the Ultima is because it destroyed the Carrerra GT for no money and no one knew what it was. Not once did I get "you flash bastard" because people had no idea what it was. I would not buy a porka for that money. Yes I would buy a nice 966TT for £40k again, but if I had that money I would rather spec another Ultima with the 1000bhp engine and it would have a good go at the million pound Veyron. That is my point with buying the Ultima. I am not interested in badge snobbery, it was never intended to be a posers car, and quite frankly I was not at all expecting the wave of 'fame' that I had when I went anywhere with the car. The Ultima was bought because I wanted the fastest thing I could find for the money and its still the fastest thing on the planet bar none for the right money - you spec it and you will get change from £100k and it will be in Veyron territory.
But hi end amplifiers sheesh!
There is more snake oil in high end audio than anything else. Listen to it and trust your ears. If you cannot hear the difference then keep your wallet firmly in your pocket. If you can hear the difference and it’s worth the money then pay the man.
Years ago someone sat me down in front of a high end system and I have been addicted ever since. It was aural sex.
If you spend more on your equipment you are an audiophile but if you spend more on your records you are a music lover.
Years ago someone sat me down in front of a high end system and I have been addicted ever since. It was aural sex.
If you spend more on your equipment you are an audiophile but if you spend more on your records you are a music lover.
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